Disgraced pastor Haggard admits second relationship with man
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:huh:
Thats a weird theory. But Ive seen pastors fall from God, thus falling from the pulpit. Our church was rocked by scandal in 2002-2003. The two pastors at the time I have no nice feelings for. To put it kindly the youth minister was making advances on me after I had placed my trust and my confidence in him. The senior pastor wasn't handling the church budget properly as well. Let's just say he arrived driving a beat up Ford Taurus and a truck from the late 80s that was barely running. When he left, he had two brand spanking new vehicles that he had written off as "church vehicles". He also made ridiculous renovations that made the church look more like a cheap side show than a church. Once his dealings were found out he was voted out immediately. And now, surprisingly he's a minister of a large church in Virginia. I saw him at a funeral a few months back and we gave each other cold stares. I really did not like it that I had to sit next to the bastard and pretend everything was nice. I hate faking smiles so I just never spoke a word to him.
But given the drastic physical changes I have been through in the last two years, I doubt he recognized me until after the fact. Probably pegged me as gay from the pew, and pegged me as a blasphemer from the pulpit.
After those to pieces of work I just really gave up on God, I really did. But Ive been through some experiences and Ive realized its not Gods fault that pastors go astray, its the pastors' fault. They simply did not want to accept the accountability of their actions and therefore continue these acts and try to cover them whilst also preaching against them.
Thats a weird theory. But Ive seen pastors fall from God, thus falling from the pulpit. Our church was rocked by scandal in 2002-2003. The two pastors at the time I have no nice feelings for. To put it kindly the youth minister was making advances on me after I had placed my trust and my confidence in him. The senior pastor wasn't handling the church budget properly as well. Let's just say he arrived driving a beat up Ford Taurus and a truck from the late 80s that was barely running. When he left, he had two brand spanking new vehicles that he had written off as "church vehicles". He also made ridiculous renovations that made the church look more like a cheap side show than a church. Once his dealings were found out he was voted out immediately. And now, surprisingly he's a minister of a large church in Virginia. I saw him at a funeral a few months back and we gave each other cold stares. I really did not like it that I had to sit next to the bastard and pretend everything was nice. I hate faking smiles so I just never spoke a word to him.
But given the drastic physical changes I have been through in the last two years, I doubt he recognized me until after the fact. Probably pegged me as gay from the pew, and pegged me as a blasphemer from the pulpit.
After those to pieces of work I just really gave up on God, I really did. But Ive been through some experiences and Ive realized its not Gods fault that pastors go astray, its the pastors' fault. They simply did not want to accept the accountability of their actions and therefore continue these acts and try to cover them whilst also preaching against them.
Well said.
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Well....I didn't have a pleasant experience either.
To this day I still hold a grudge against the Presbyterian church due to a sexual assault that I witnessed. I reported it to the Youth ministers who told the Pastor and there was no discipline against the perpetrators and I was treated like a pariah.
I am not a big fan of churches and the likes but do make an attempt at least --once in awhile.
lmfao that is so random!
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I know there are many examples of bad preachers and bad church leadership because too often they focus on the leaders instead of the Lord. When the church membership is more concerned with protecting their guilty leaders rather than purging the dross, they contaminate and weaken the whole church. Their integrity is totally shot when they don't police themselves.Well....I didn't have a pleasant experience either.
To this day I still hold a grudge against the Presbyterian church due to a sexual assault that I witnessed. I reported it to the Youth ministers who told the Pastor and there was no discipline against the perpetrators and I was treated like a pariah.
I am not a big fan of churches and the likes but do make an attempt at least --once in awhile.
My question to you is this: what should've been done?
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I don't know the whole story but in general I would say any criminal activity (which would include a sexual assault) should be reported to the police. If an arrest is made, and the person is out on bail, the church leaders should go to him. They should pray with him, and counsel him, but explain that for the good of the church, he can't continue in any leadership role at church, and he shouldn't attend church if the victim was also a member. Depending on the outcome of the trial, and the repentance (or not) of the person, church discipline may also be necessary. That could include removing the person from the church membership.
Like I said, I don't know all the details of your situation. But in general, crimes should be reported to the police but the church should still provide the accused with spiritual counsel while at the same time protecting the rest of the membership.
Our church has had to discipline some members. It's not a pleasant process but sometimes it's necessary.
Live_Laugh_Love
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Reba, Did the Bible say "Any one who repentant and can never be allowed in a spiritual leadership role"? It didn't say that. According in the Bible, God chose all the "worst" leaders who had failed, repented, and continued being leadership role. God has mercy and grace.
Also in the new testament, Jesus Christ chose the worst people who followed him. He socialized and called the worse people to do the work for him while he was on earth.
It is not our place to say or decide if anyone who is disqualified or qualified to be leader in the future.
My question is: Are you former pastor's wife?
Yes, I agree that I don't find any humor in this situation and It is disgusting and shameful.
According to the Bible (anyone can argue with me but you can not argue with the scriptures)....The Bible is the truth!
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New International Version)
9) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10) nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
and
“For the word of the LORD is right and true; he is faithful in all he does. The LORD loves righteousness and justice; the earth is full of his unfailing love.”
- Psalm 33:4-5
Yeaaaah, the bible also says you're supposed to put homosexuals to death. Why don't I see anyone following that scripture, hmmmmmm? Come on now people, let's not pick and choose! Line 'em up, throw 'em in camps, brand the homosexuals with numbers!
Oh...wait. That already happened. In Nazi germany.
And you call this a loving god?
Oh...wait. That already happened. In Nazi germany.
And you call this a loving god?
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Yes. The requirement for a "bishop" (pastor):
I Timothy 3
1. This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3. Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4. One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5. (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6. Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
If a Christian leader falls into sin, the effectiveness of his ministry is destroyed. When Paul referred to himself as the chiefest of sinners who persecuted the Christians, he was referring to his state prior to becoming a Christian.
I think it's rather clear from the posts in this thread, why fallen church leaders can't effectively continue a public ministry. They set themselves up for mockery, disdain, suspicion, etc. No one focuses on Christ when they focus on a preacher's public failings.
Please give specific examples of those Christian leaders.
If you are referring to spiritual weaknesses such as instances of doubt or fear, that isn't the same as continually committing the sin of adultery or other immorality.
To repent and follow Him, yes. But not everyone is called to become a pastor. That's a special responsibility that includes special requirements.
That's why God set down the requirements for pastor in the Bible.
No. My husband has never been a pastor. Why do you ask?
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Well---it was a youth group meeting and we ended up having the entire church to "horseplay", play tag, etc.
Anyway the one girl fell to the ground and three of the guys decided to "rough her up" and have "fun". The one placed his hand between her legs and hit it several times. Understand--she was clothed.
Afterwards she left before the youth group was finished and I rode home with the youth group ministers. They inquired what was wrong with her as she wasn't herself and I basically told them what happend.
Then I became a pariah...
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So everyone involved was a minor?
It still should have been followed up on. I wonder if the youth pastor didn't want to pursue it because he feared he would be blamed for not supervising the group properly?
The boys should have been punished, and the poor girl should have been given counsel and support. All the parents should have been informed and involved. You shouldn't have been shunned. You should have also been provided counseling and support. It doesn't seem like anyone was dealt with properly.
Yes--everyone was a minor.
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