Disgraced pastor Haggard admits second relationship with man

[deafskeptic]

As usual, Jillio gets the blame for everything that happens here on AD!

I just had a horrid thought: is jillio our sacrificial goat? She certainly gets all blame.

 

[SFShawn13]

Right..

Um, yeah it IS right. Go open up a Bible and read the passage. Homosexuals should be put to death.

 

[jillio]

I just had a horrid thought: is jillio our sacrificial goat? She certainly gets all blame.

 

[shel90]

Um, yeah it IS right. Go open up a Bible and read the passage. Homosexuals should be put to death.

I was agreeing with your post when I said "right"..If I didnt believe u, I would have said "Yea, right!" but I was saying "right" as "Yea, I know what you mean."

 

[SFShawn13]

I was agreeing with your post when I said "right"..If I didnt believe u, I would have said "Yea, right!" but I was saying "right" as "Yea, I know what you mean."

OH! 'doh! Sorry I read the connotation of your right wrongly, lol. thank you for clarifying.

 

[Reba]

Um, yeah it IS right. Go open up a Bible and read the passage. Homosexuals should be put to death.

Which passage is that?

 

[naisho]

Which passage is that?

Reba, you're Christian too, right?

Do you have your old testament with you? I think I know which verse he is referring to, but it doesn't refer to death, it's referring to sin in my eyes.
It's Chapter 18 of Leviticus, when Jehovah was speaking to Moses.

21) And you shall not give your seed to pass them through to Molech, nor shall you pollute the name of your God; I am Jehovah.
22) And you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a woman; it is a perversion

Note for Mods reading: This is still on topic, we are just discussing the basis of the bible's context towards homosexuality and death. Not preaching or spreading the word. We're stating fact with fact.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Reba, you're Christian too, right?

Yes she is a Christian.

Do you have your old testament with you? I think I know which verse he is referring to, but it doesn't refer to death, it's referring to sin in my eyes.
It's Chapter 18 of Leviticus, when Jehovah was speaking to Moses.


Note for Mods reading: This is still on topic, we are just discussing the basis of the bible's context towards homosexuality and death. Not preaching or spreading the word. We're stating fact with fact.

Unfortunlately the religious issues, no matter what you said is not allow but I hope Alex will give the chance to re-open the relgious sub-forum. If yes, which mean is it´s his 3rd chance.

Carefully, the moderators might move this thread to relgious sub-forum.

 

[Reba]

Reba, you're Christian too, right?

Do you have your old testament with you? I think I know which verse he is referring to, but it doesn't refer to death, it's referring to sin in my eyes.
It's Chapter 18 of Leviticus, when Jehovah was speaking to Moses.

Note for Mods reading: This is still on topic, we are just discussing the basis of the bible's context towards homosexuality and death. Not preaching or spreading the word. We're stating fact with fact.

I would like posters be required to cite passages if they are going to accuse the Bible of stating something, just like they are required to cite any other published source.

I think that's only fair.

 

[Reba]

Yes she is a Christian.

Unfortunlately the religious issues, no matter what you said is not allow but I hope Alex will give the chance to re-open the relgious sub-forum. If yes, which mean is it´s his 3rd chance.

Carefully, the moderators might move this thread to relgious sub-forum.

If someone posts an accusation about the Bible, then the poster should be required to cite the source of that accusation. That's the requirement for any source that is mentioned in AD, religious or not.

 

[naisho]

Unfortunlately the religious issues, no matter what you said is not allow

This is still on topic, I feel. I'm not trying to preach or say anything more of the bible. All I'm doing is showing what the bible says about homosexuality and what it thinks of it. Nothing more than that.

Should a mod decide to move this now that I said that.. He or she should have done it the instant this topic was made!

 

[Liebling:-)))]

If someone posts an accusation about the Bible, then the poster should be required to cite the source of that accusation. That's the requirement for any source that is mentioned in AD, religious or not.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

This is still on topic, I feel. I'm not trying to preach or say anything more of the bible. All I'm doing is showing what the bible says about homosexuality and what it thinks of it. Nothing more than that.

Should a mod decide to move this now that I said that.. He or she should have done it the instant this topic was made!

Yes I know what you mean... I only want to offer my friendly advice and want you aware of it.

 

[naisho]

Yes I know what you mean... I only want to offer my friendly advice and want you aware of it.

No problem. Thank you for looking out for me.

Reba's post was just saying, basically

"If someone wants to say something about the bible, why can we not post what the bible says? This is how a source works."

 

[Liebling:-)))]

No problem. Thank you for looking out for me.

Reba's post was just saying, basically

"If someone wants to say something about the bible, why can we not post what the bible says? This is how a source works."

Oh I see...

 

[Dixie]

Exactly, it also separates your thoughts from the words of the text you are referring to. Perhaps I should open a thread somewhere on here about how to correctly cite sources and avoid plagiarism and conflict about your sources.

Homosexuality is addressed more than once in the Bible, there is also one verse that pertains to homosexuality in the New Testament as well.

Paul wrote to the church in Corinth, 9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,(1 Corinthians 6:9, New Living Translation).
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=6&verse=9&version=51&context=verse

 

[Reba]

Suppose someone posted, "I saw on TV that Queen Elizabeth and Keith Moon were having an affair." Would you just accept that statement as true or would you expect the poster give you a reference for proof?

That's the same about the Bible. If someone posts something about what the Bible says, they should give the reference to prove it. Otherwise, people can say outrageous lies about the Bible and some people just accept them as true.

 

[SFShawn13]

Which passage is that?

"And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Leviticus 20:13


So why isn't Haggard's church lobbying for him to be put to death? Aren't they fundamentalists? Why pick and choose?

 

[SFShawn13]

OH, here are some different versions from other Christian Bibles if you feel like switching the wording up:

ASV: (American Standard Version, 1901) "And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Darby: (J.N. Darby Translation, 1890): "And if a man lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall certainly be put to death; their blood is upon them."
ESV: (English Standard Version): "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."
HNV: (Hebrew Names Version): "If a man lies with a male, as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
KJV: (King James Version): "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."
LB: (Living Bible): "The penalty for homosexual acts is death to both parties. They have brought it upon themselves."
NASB: (New American Standard Bible): "'If {there is} a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them. "
Net Bible: "If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves." 1
NIV: (New International Version) "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
NKJV: (New King James Version) "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."
NLT: (New Living Translation): "The penalty for homosexual acts is death to both parties. They have committed a detestable act, and are guilty of a capital offense."
RSV: (Revised Standard Version): "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them."
Webster: (Noah Webster Version, 1833): "If a man also shall lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them."
Young: (Robert Young Literal Translation, 1898) "And a man who lieth with a male as one lieth with a woman; abomination both of them have done; they are certainly put to death; their blood [is] on them."

 

[naisho]

Hmm, he's right. That excerpt on Leviticus 20:13 in my book is matching Shawn's passage.

One thing tho Shawn - some of Christianity has moved onto the Recovery version of the New Testament, they will use the Old Testament (which contains the book of Leviticus) for reference, but everything else is abided by the New T.

But.. in regards to this statement, same along with the New Testament - from Dixie's post, that the church I am in follows:

9) Or do you not know that unjust ones will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be led astray, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals,
10) nor thieves, nor covetous ones, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor plunders shall inherit the kingdom of God.

But, in the Recovery version it doesn't state that gays will be killed. It is just merely stating that they won't be accepted into the New Jerusalem, the same as the unbelievers.