Deafhood

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On topic: is "deafhood" a "deaf value" imparted by who?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
kokonut said:
He asked first here - http://www.alldeaf.com/our-world-our-culture/91087-deafhood-20.html#post1839489


He said he has a question...and nothing about where he stands. He then asked a question. Not a position. He then offered a suggestion, still not a position. I gave my answer ("I have an opinion and viewpoint"). And then asked for clarification as to his real agenda behind that question. He finally stated his position (and reason for asking me that question).

The above scenario and what I said do not fit a straw man example because there was no "Position A" from him. There was nothing were I redrawn his position differently. Hence, my asking him a question for clarification.

Kokonut - I should stop contributing to AD? Are you saying that?

PFH - Nope. Nice twist though. But if you want to take it that way, sure, be my guest.

Kokonut - Not twisting anything. I am asking you a question. Why are you asking that? To me, it sounds like I should stop contributing to AD.

It all boils down to wanting to know exactly why he was asking that question and the opportunity to understand what his position is.

How can it be a straw man?

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. From my end, I was puzzled by his comment, so I asked. *shrugs*
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NP, we agree that we disagree.
 
Paddy Ladd really? What about those that haven't read his book? Did it "exist" prior to his writing? Strange that Harlan Lane didn't mention this important concept?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
drphil said:
Paddy Ladd really? What about those that haven't read his book? Did it "exist" prior to his writing? Strange that Harlan Lane didn't mention this important concept?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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What do you mean by it in this sentence "Did it exist prior to his writing?"
 
If the concept "deafhood" existed BEFORE Paddy Ladd wrote his book why was it NOT discussed by others?
The first I heard of Paddy Ladd was here in Alldeaf.com. Not mentioned in Oliver Sacks-Seeing Voices-a journey into the world of the deaf.1989. Just checked the index-I own the book! I read the book recently-no mention of "deafhood".

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
drphil said:
If the concept "deafhood" existed BEFORE Paddy Ladd wrote his book why was it NOT discussed by others?
The first I heard of Paddy Ladd was here in Alldeaf.com. Not mentioned in Oliver Sacks-Seeing Voices-a journey into the world of the deaf.1989. Just checked the index-I own the book! I read the book recently-no mention of "deafhood".
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It existed, just was not coined.

BTW, Lane or Sacks aint end all for the deaf community.
 
drphil said:
Paddy Ladd really? What about those that haven't read his book? Did it "exist" prior to his writing? Strange that Harlan Lane didn't mention this important concept?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
Click to expand...

dont lke harlan lane that much, why need a pompous hearing need to write for us?! he's more a historian, but still...whatever...bet he got rich...for that im not too impressed...
its like a white person writing the history book for Black people...wherein Black writers are aplenty, THEY need to write it first, but its just so typical THEN typical more books gets written/published by Black people afterwards, guess the same thing for Deaf, But for strangely ...well .. not too strangely it doesnt seem to be the case for women, for that Id need to ask my freinds - they are Doctors (Senior Lecturers/Researchers) at University.
 
BTW, adding to what has been mentioned in the last few posts. Deafhood is not a 'label' as some are claiming it to be. It is a word coined to contain a concept. It is the definition of that concept which we are discussing in this thread, not 'labelling' anything or anyone.
 
An Interesting discussion now in semantics- labels vs concepts vs????????
Oxford Canadian dictionary: CONCEPT: an idea, a general notion IDEA: a plan formed in mind by thinking, a vague belief or fancy, a feeling that something is likely. an opinion. LABEL a descriptive word or phrase to classifying people etc


To a more relevant thought is there such an "entity" as "hearing hood?" Do all hearing people understand this concept/label?

Grummer Harlan Lane is/ was a hearing person when he wrote in part- a Journey into the DEAF WORLD. Whether he fits the "deaf militants""?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
drphil said:
An Interesting discussion now in semantics- labels vs concepts vs????????
Oxford Canadian dictionary: CONCEPT: an idea, a general notion IDEA: a plan formed in mind by thinking, a vague belief or fancy, a feeling that something is likely. an opinion. LABEL a descriptive word or phrase to classifying people etc


To a more relevant thought is there such an "entity" as "hearing hood?" Do all hearing people understand this concept/label?

Grummer Harlan Lane is/ was a hearing person when he wrote in part- a Journey into the DEAF WORLD. Whether he fits the "deaf militants""?

Removed A B Harmony deactivated Aug/07
Click to expand...
See bolded sentence. The answer depends on your definition of deaf militants. Let's hear your definition of deaf militant.
 
Grummer said:
dont lke harlan lane that much, why need a pompous hearing need to write for us?! he's more a historian, but still...whatever...bet he got rich...for that im not too impressed...
its like a white person writing the history book for Black people...wherein Black writers are aplenty, THEY need to write it first, but its just so typical THEN typical more books gets written/published by Black people afterwards, guess the same thing for Deaf, But for strangely ...well .. not too strangely it doesnt seem to be the case for women, for that Id need to ask my freinds - they are Doctors (Senior Lecturers/Researchers) at University.
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Agree. It puts me off when western journalists interviews white locals in africa, instead of black locals. In defence of Lane, sometimes, an elite manage to listen to the deaf experience, and share it with the rest of the elite in their language, like Stokoe did. The elite before the 90's were mostly made up of hearing white males. That way, I approve Lane, and cheerish him.

From my understanding, Lane have adressed this problem, that opinions of deaf people are less valued than hearing people. We see this on AD when hearing parents declare war at each other, too.

Berry had a good perspective on this, with his low and high context thinking, from his native american experience, IMO. Lane is talking to hearing people, and they understand him better than deaf people.

A concern I got, is if it's a challenge to express ourselves to hearing people, without becoming like them. Like some women becomes bosses by acting more paternal than men do at average. I simply don't want to become as stupid as hearing people. ;)
 
flip said:
Agree. It puts me off when western journalists interviews white locals in africa, instead of black locals. In defence of Lane, sometimes, an elite manage to listen to the deaf experience, and share it with the rest of the elite in their language, like Stokoe did. The elite before the 90's were mostly made up of hearing white males. That way, I approve Lane, and cheerish him.

From my understanding, Lane have adressed this problem, that opinions of deaf people are less valued than hearing people. We see this on AD when hearing parents declare war at each other, too.

Berry had a good perspective on this, with his low and high context thinking, from his native american experience, IMO. Lane is talking to hearing people, and they understand him better than deaf people.

A concern I got, is if it's a challenge to express ourselves to hearing people, without becoming like them. Like some women becomes bosses by acting more paternal than men do at average. I simply don't want to become as stupid as hearing people. ;)
Click to expand...


thats; my concern too, great minds think alike
 
flip said:
Agree. It puts me off when western journalists interviews white locals in africa, instead of black locals. In defence of Lane, sometimes, an elite manage to listen to the deaf experience, and share it with the rest of the elite in their language, like Stokoe did. The elite before the 90's were mostly made up of hearing white males. That way, I approve Lane, and cheerish him.

From my understanding, Lane have adressed this problem, that opinions of deaf people are less valued than hearing people. We see this on AD when hearing parents declare war at each other, too.

Berry had a good perspective on this, with his low and high context thinking, from his native american experience, IMO. Lane is talking to hearing people, and they understand him better than deaf people.

A concern I got, is if it's a challenge to express ourselves to hearing people, without becoming like them. Like some women becomes bosses by acting more paternal than men do at average. I simply don't want to become as stupid as hearing people. ;)
Click to expand...


another concern is that In defence of "Deafness" by majority of those involved at elite management levels of many Deaf organisation, tend to listen to the so-called deaf experience, but "read" it as a share of shared experience in a hearing way of finance or agenda setting that flow with the rest of the elite in their {hearing] language, for instance, 'trendy management style, leadership approach, skills camps, sanitised thinking, even sanitised sign languages. All of these above follows the make up of the ideology which belongs to the elite at the Post-90's were on surface multi cultural, PC, 'safe' but in reality it is just a new version of the hearing white males' ideas.

btw what do you mean by high/low context - a page or thread link please so i can read up on it, thanks
 
Grummer, just now when you were writing about the "surface multi-cultural pc" this reminds me of how there can be facade, put on by people in power <traditionally white, straight, hearing, etc, men> to make it APPEAR that there is an actual re-distribution of power, when in reality there is not. PC as an illusion.
That is, those in actual power make an "executive decision" to write something that looks good, add someone in here or there, showcase so-and-so - and then exclaim - look but we have so-and-so! - or, see this is how it is now! and it really fake. But the OTHER People in power believe it to be SO because one of "their own" did it.

Authentic power comes not from replicating oppression; it comes from breaking out of that which creates oppression.
 
dogmom said:
Grummer, just now when you were writing about the "surface multi-cultural pc" this reminds me of how there can be facade, put on by people in power <traditionally white, straight, hearing, etc, men> to make it APPEAR that there is an actual re-distribution of power, when in reality there is not. PC as an illusion.
That is, those in actual power make an "executive decision" to write something that looks good, add someone in here or there, showcase so-and-so - and then exclaim - look but we have so-and-so! - or, see this is how it is now! and it really fake. But the OTHER People in power believe it to be SO because one of "their own" did it.

Authentic power comes not from replicating oppression; it comes from breaking out of that which creates oppression.
Click to expand...

a big YUP!!! totally crap and fake, its everywhere, and thats why i dont like Deaf organisation 'supposedly' for d/Deaf people, in reality they are just cheap tokenised agency to act on behalf of the government which are hellbent on cuts...its pure madness, and it aren't right, not one bit.
 
Interesting now deafness included in wide ranging discussion re economic stratification of society. Slight problem: is this real?


Does that mean "hearies" are in control of society? Can a deaf person be "rich"?
As for the " hearing oppression" supposition supposedly how does one explain all latedeafened persons being "oppressors in part of their life-as hearies" to now being "oppressed-as deafies"? Presumably while "absorbing deaf values/deafhood" in learning ASL/BSL et al?

Deaf militants: from an article in Deaf Canada Today December 1998. page 5 by Heather Marsden re "unexplained anger". She suggest "they" should "chop wood" permanently. I have the article from one of my Cdn Hearing Society/Toronto classes.

Who said Sociology-culture was boring?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
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