Deafhood

[TXgolfer]

I defined the difference between labels and qualities.

I'm not commented on what your journey should be, I'm simply saying I don't think you taking one. I think you are sitting on the crossroads refusing to budge.

Now my mother would say that not making a choice is in fact making a choice, and refusal to journey is the journey itself.

I don't understand how anything said here would indicate Ladd's book is ideological or political labeling or that it is a game.

Seems to me he is on that journey..... You don't have to be part of the crowd to experience a personal journey. Koko seems to accept his deafness and cope with it quite well.

Of course that is actually wrong for me to say too as I am judging his journey as well....even if it is in the positive.

How about we let Koko decide for himself and we decide for ourselves about OUR journeys? I think that is the best idea.

 

[flip]

Incorrect. I only asked him twice the same question even though I already responded on why I contribute.

Again, he never stated his position in the first place which was why I asked for clarification.

Mine isn't a straw man. He never stated his position in the first place. How am I supposed to know without asking? And, also, since I was asking a question I wasn't asking for a "yes" or "no" response but a response that would answer my question. He responded. Case closed.

No. I don't have the right to express myself in whatever fashion I want in this forum. It's a privilege to post here...not a right. There are rules and limitations in this forum. But that wasn't what I was referring to but the question of whether he was asking me that I stop contributing to AD or not. He already made clear his position afterwards.

PFH made a question that questioned the point of your posts. That's a position. It's not a position the he necessarily is going to hold, but it's a foundation for his question. You perhaps did not detect his position, but it does not make his position less real. It would only make it less real to you.

You asked a question if you were allowed to express yourself on AD. That's a question about a position that never were expressed by PFH in first question. He answered your question, and you linked it back to his first position. You both probably know each other in a way that makes you read more into his question than I'm able to do, but even I can see that his first position was something else than you ended up attacking.

Your straw man fallacy were probably done unconsciously, a lot of people have this habit, so it's not surprising if it's the case here too.

But it still a straw man AFAIK.

 

[flip]

flip is sooo into me. I'm taken, but still, it's awfully sweet that you are always thinking of me.

I know, those strawmens are just so cute.

 

[kokonut]

PFH made a question that questioned the point of your posts. That's a position. It's not a position the he necessarily is going to hold, but it's a foundation for his question. You perhaps did not detect his position, but it does not make his position less real. It would only make it less real to you.

You asked a question if you were allowed to express yourself on AD. That's a question about a position that never were expressed by PFH in first question. He answered your question, and you linked it back to his first position. You both probably know each other in a way that makes you read more into his question than I'm able to do, but even I can see that his first position was something else than you ended up attacking.

Your straw man fallacy were probably done unconsciously, a lot of people have this habit, so it's not surprising if it's the case here too.

But it still a straw man.

I asked for clarification, twice. He clarified it and that was when his position was made known. I am not a mind reader. My question to him was not a straw man since he did not present his position in the first place.

 

[flip]

I asked for clarification, twice. He clarified it and that was when his position was made known. I am not a mind reader. My question to him was not a straw man since he did not present his position in the first place.

You asked him to comment your position, then you attacked the answer. You never answered his first question. PFH presented his position in his first question. Denying any presentation of a position by PFH in his first question don't make this any less straw man, because it's only invisible to you. The rest of us see a bright neon sign blinking "straw man".

 

[flip]

Oh, so, now it's "behavior" that makes a straw man? Interesting.

I've made no misrepresentation of his position since he didn't make it known which is why I asked. And now his position is known. End of story. No straw man.

Ok, no straw man, you win(everyone else, notice how Kokonut are trying to deny the existence of position A that he disorted into his position B).

 

[kokonut]

You asked him to comment your position, then you attacked the answer. You never answered his first question. PFH presented his position in his first question. Denying any presentation of a position by PFH in his first question don't make this any less straw man, because it's only invisible to you. The rest of us see a bright neon sign blinking "straw man".

Attacked his answer? *laughing* Let's get real and stop with the hyperbole nonsense.

I did answer his first question. I said, "I have an opinion and viewpoint."
http://www.alldeaf.com/our-world-our-culture/91087-deafhood-20.html#post1839527

The key to a strawman has to do with a person's position. He didn't make his position known and I asked. He then clarified his position. No neon sign blinking "straw man." It doesn't exist in this case.

 

[kokonut]

Ok, no straw man, you win(everyone else, notice how Kokonut are trying to deny the existence of position A that he disorted into his position B).

He never showed his position A....which is why I asked!

 

[drphil]

Another distracting intermural exercise: is "strawperson" real?
Reality: when one is "deaf" one must "deal with it". How- Ultimately- your choice. No matter what-impossible to do nothing ( which is another choice)

Relabeling as "cultural" doesn't change the actual condition of deafness/silence- how could it? Conversely knowing ASL/BSL et al-DOESN'T CREATE deafness which originates from psychical causes-correct?

Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

 

[Berry]

Another distracting intermural exercise: is "strawperson" real?
Reality: when one is "deaf" one must "deal with it". How- Ultimately- your choice. No matter what-impossible to do nothing ( which is another choice)

Relabeling as "cultural" doesn't change the actual condition of deafness/silence- how could it? Conversely knowing ASL/BSL et al-DOESN'T CREATE deafness which originates from psychical causes-correct?

Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

WTF?

Was the first paragraph and the second paragraph written by the same person?

Oddly I am drawn to the first paragraph.

 

[Grummer]

WTF?

Was the first paragraph and the second paragraph written by the same person?

Oddly I am drawn to the first paragraph.

apparently so

 

[flip]

Attacked his answer? *laughing* Let's get real and stop with the hyperbole nonsense.

I did answer his first question. I said, "I have an opinion and viewpoint."
http://www.alldeaf.com/our-world-our-culture/91087-deafhood-20.html#post1839527

The key to a strawman has to do with a person's position. He didn't make his position known and I asked. He then clarified his position. No neon sign blinking "straw man." It doesn't exist in this case.

In the link you provided, in the quote above, PFH explains his position, and makes a question. You answered that question by saying it's your opinions, and didn't comment the part why you keep on make rude posts. You then demand an answer from him if you should stop contributing to AD. After getting a reply that you can point out is flawed, you define this answer as the first position PFH had, which not is true.

Ok, this is the last attempt to explain this case of straw man fallacy. If this still is unclear to you, I'll try to find some better examples later.

 

[Beowulf]

In the link you provided, in the quote above, PFH explains his position, and makes a question. You answered that question by saying it's your opinions, and didn't comment the part why you keep on make rude posts. You then demand an answer from him if you should stop contributing to AD. After getting a reply that you can point out is flawed, you define this answer as the first position PFH had, which not is true.

Ok, this is the last attempt to explain this case of straw man fallacy. If this still is unclear to you, I'll try to find some better examples later.

Save your breath. He will never admit to error.

 

[flip]

Save your breath. He will never admit to
error.

Good idea.
*putting on some shaders to easier ignore the bright neon flashing*

 

[Grummer]

heeee

 

[DeafCaroline]

Relabeling as "cultural" doesn't change the actual condition of deafness/silence- how could it? Conversely knowing ASL/BSL et al-DOESN'T CREATE deafness which originates from psychical causes-correct?

A rose by any other name is still a rose.

 

[Tousi]

A rose by any other name is still a rose.

And by any other name, it is supposed to still smell sweet......

 

[kokonut]

In the link you provided, in the quote above, PFH explains his position, and makes a question. You answered that question by saying it's your opinions, and didn't comment the part why you keep on make rude posts. You then demand an answer from him if you should stop contributing to AD. After getting a reply that you can point out is flawed, you define this answer as the first position PFH had, which not is true.

Ok, this is the last attempt to explain this case of straw man fallacy. If this still is unclear to you, I'll try to find some better examples later.

He asked first here - http://www.alldeaf.com/our-world-our-culture/91087-deafhood-20.html#post1839489

A question though. I am not understanding this so..

If you preferred to keep things simple for yourself, why take a part of threads like these? Leave it be, and your life goes on simply.

Just curious.

He said he has a question...and nothing about where he stands. He then asked a question. Not a position. He then offered a suggestion, still not a position. I gave my answer ("I have an opinion and viewpoint"). And then asked for clarification as to his real agenda behind that question. He finally stated his position (and reason for asking me that question).

The above scenario and what I said do not fit a straw man example because there was no "Position A" from him. There was nothing were I redrawn his position differently. Hence, my asking him a question for clarification.

Kokonut - I should stop contributing to AD? Are you saying that?

PFH - Nope. Nice twist though. But if you want to take it that way, sure, be my guest.

Kokonut - Not twisting anything. I am asking you a question. Why are you asking that? To me, it sounds like I should stop contributing to AD.

It all boils down to wanting to know exactly why he was asking that question and the opportunity to understand what his position is.

How can it be a straw man?

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. From my end, I was puzzled by his comment, so I asked. *shrugs*

 

[posts from hell]

Back to the topic.

 

[kokonut]

Yay!