Asl speed limit

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I am fast on speed on :D I am skill lots of communication social network ^_^
 
TheWriteAlex said:
Both of you are my friends, so try not to take this the wrong way, but, please don't tell me basic things about ASL that I already know. Anyone who uses ASL everyday, as I do, knows what you just told me. I'm trying to get you to look beyond the simple comparison from your own perspective and see the damage that any sort of vaunted linguistic superiority causes. I'll leave it at that.
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I have always stated that ASL is better than SEE and oralism so how am I a hypocrate?
 
I don't think anyone is trying to lord linguistic superiority of any language. I think the tshirt is cool because most people would never stop to think that ASL can be faster because you can say multiple things in one sign or two instead of speaking all the words.

If you have two people fluent in English and then two people fluent in ASL and compare those two groups - chances are, ASL is faster and that tshirt is quite an interesting conversation piece. It will make people ask questions. That's always a good thing.
 
This thread was directed to my attention (by the flaming ball):

There's no speed limit on the oral route: it's riddled with potholes of "huh?" "wha?" "sorry?" It's no different from how how ASL encounters the speed-bumps of finger-spelling complex concepts which are too far abstract for visual languages to denote.
 
TheWriteAlex said:
No? Did you just gloss over all the comments where people have said exactly that? ASL is better than ____!




That doesn't necessarily make it faster than spoken English. Anyone with linguistic training knows this.



How do you know this? The research shows fluent conversation levels move at about the same speed in both languages. How do I know this? I worked in the ASL linguistics lab at Purdue. I have had many conversations about ASL linguistic structure with experts in the field.

And Who will ask questions? What I see the shirt doing is offending people who have chosen to be oral or use SEE. That might be a good thing to people with an agenda, but it's not good for ASL.
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Ok, let's say you're right and there's no difference, fine. Why is this tshirt upsetting you so much? It's just showing the differences between different approaches. I live in Quebec and I can tell you no frenchman would be offended if I told them the french use far more words than the english to say the same thing (and this is true, any translator would testify to that, I know four people personally who worked in translation and as a graphic designer who always had to do bilingual work, I know this too). They would just take it as a cultural observation, not "lording it".

And as an oral person learning ASL, I'm not offended by the shirt. Don't forget for an oral person, they may speak as fast as a hearing person but they take longer to understand a hearing person. compare that to two asl deaf communicating, i think there's a difference.

go to any country and they think they're the best. Pride is not abnormal. It's pride in one's culture and language, etc etc. Nothing wrong with that.

semantics asides, why is this getting to you so much?
 
DeafCaroline said:
Ok, let's say you're right and there's no difference, fine. Why is this tshirt upsetting you so much? It's just showing the differences between different approaches. I live in Quebec and I can tell you no frenchman would be offended if I told them the french use far more words than the english to say the same thing (and this is true, any translator would testify to that, I know four people personally who worked in translation and as a graphic designer who always had to do bilingual work, I know this too). They would just take it as a cultural observation, not "lording it".

And as an oral person learning ASL, I'm not offended by the shirt. Don't forget for an oral person, they may speak as fast as a hearing person but they take longer to understand a hearing person. compare that to two asl deaf communicating, i think there's a difference.

go to any country and they think they're the best. Pride is not abnormal. It's pride in one's culture and language, etc etc. Nothing wrong with that.

semantics asides, why is this getting to you so much?
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Jeeze, do I have to spell out everyone on this thread? My problem is not the shirt itself. I think it's pretty obvious that I'm a strong supporter of ASL and find it to be the superior form of communication in a wide level of contexts. But that's the important part of the equation here: context.

I look at this shirt, and I say "In what context is ASL faster than SEE and Oralism?" It doesn't have an answer. It's just giving some absolutism.

The rest of you are looking at the shirt and ascribing your own context to it, from your lives, past traumas, etc. etc. without even thinking about what is actually being said or not being said.

The TRUE problem I have is the hypocrisy that is running rampant on this site. So it's okay to post a shirt that boasts (falsely) that one modality is better than another, but when a parent of CI child tries to point out the benefit the device has given their child, they are stepped all over on and called abusive, talked about on other threads, and generally treated like second-class members of this website.

THAT is what I have a problem with.
 
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Huh...this shirt is related to deaf ed because we never say hearing people who are speaking English are using "oralism". Those terms "oralism" and "SEE" are usually used when it comes to choosing what method to teach deaf children with.
 
hmmm... should I make a thread about "What tshirt offends you?"

I am offended by "This is not braille!" shirt :naughty:
 
shel90 said:
Huh...this shirt is related to deaf ed because we never say hearing people who are speaking English are using "oralism". Those terms "oralism" and "SEE" are usually used when it comes to choosing what method to teach deaf children with.
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Again, Shel, ascribing your own context to the shirt.
 
Did I miss where the shirt said ASL was better than English?
 
TheWriteAlex said:
Again, Shel, ascribing your own context to the shirt.
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So is my hubby using oralism when he talks with his hearing coworkers?

Just wondering how oralism ans SEE also applies to hearing people speaking? How are they defined as "languages"? Just wondering.
 
TheWriteAlex said:
Uh, no. What does that have to do with anything anyway?
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shel90 said:
Huh...this shirt is related to deaf ed because we never say hearing people who are speaking English are using "oralism". Those terms "oralism" and "SEE" are usually used when it comes to choosing what method to teach deaf children with.
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there
 
shel90 said:
So is my hubby using oralism when he talks with his hearing coworkers?

Just wondering how oralism ans SEE also applies to hearing people speaking? How are they defined as "languages"? Just wondering.
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You are starting to turn this into something different. Stop.

And I never said they were languages. Somebody else did: http://www.alldeaf.com/1931259-post10.html
 
so.... what do you propose? remove "Oral Speed Limit" from tshirt?
 
TheWriteAlex said:
Uh, no. What does that have to do with anything anyway?
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I must be missing something here. From my understanding the shirt was comparing the speed of message conveyed bwtween the two modalities and ASL and then all of sudden you are upset because we were saying ASL is better tha.n English. I must have missed a post or something because I am using my phone. Will have to reread it on the computer before commenting further. To make sure I am on the same page with what's being discussed.
 
shel90 said:
I must be missing something here. From my understanding the shirt was comparing the speed of message conveyed bwtween the two modalities and ASL and then all of sudden you are upset because we were saying ASL is better tha.n English. I must have missed a post or something because I am using my phone. Will have to reread it on the computer before commenting further. To make sure I am on the same page with what's being discussed.
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Sigh. That's not it at all.

And good god, the rest of you are the ones who are all upset. I'm just trying to get you to look at something differently and you're the ones who are flipping out about it.
 
TheWriteAlex said:
Is this shirt claiming that ASL is superior to other forms of communication? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that AUDISM?
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Alright..this was the post that I missed. It could be viewed as superior than oralism and SEE or it could be viewed as faster than oralism and SEE.

Depends on how one takes it in.
 
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