ASL, SEE, PSE, etc.

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rockdrummer said:
I agree that cued speech did not evolve naturaly but to say it was imposed on the deaf (IMHO) is inaccurate.
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It was, wasnt it? How else would you call it?
 
shel90 said:
It was, wasnt it? How else would you call it?
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Nobody is forcing CS on the deaf community nor are they using any authority to make deaf people to use it. CS is just another communication system that has been developed and made available for folks to use if they choose to do so.
 
rockdrummer said:
Nobody is forcing CS on the deaf community nor are they using any authority to make deaf people to use it. CS is just another communication system that has been developed and made available for folks to use if they choose to do so.
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Anything that a parent does is "forced" on their child. We "force" our kids to come inside out of the rain, and go to school.

Deaf parents "force" their hearing kids to use ASL. Nobody is complaining about that. I "forced" Miss Kat to learn ASL. She didn't have a choice.

Just because you disagree with a choice, doesn't make it more of a "force" than anything else.
 
faire_jour said:
Anything that a parent does is "forced" on their child. We "force" our kids to come inside out of the rain, and go to school.

Deaf parents "force" their hearing kids to use ASL. Nobody is complaining about that. I "forced" Miss Kat to learn ASL. She didn't have a choice.

Just because you disagree with a choice, doesn't make it more of a "force" than anything else.
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My point is that using CS is a matter of choice. Nobody is imposing on the deaf community that they must use CS.
 
Some members shared their experiences with being confused by cued speech as children. :dunno: if that's not forcing something on them that isnt natural.
 
shel90 said:
Some members shared their experiences with being confused by cued speech as children. :dunno: if that's not forcing something on them that isnt natural.
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What is "natural"? ASL was not "natural" for me, but I learned it just fine.
 
faire_jour said:
What is "natural"? ASL was not "natural" for me, but I learned it just fine.
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CS is not a language..if a child is going to be exposed to CS, at least be exposed to ASL as well, otherwise, how will the child communicate with others? It was an invented system made to be used as a teaching tool but some took it and used it for language development. That's where I am very uncomfortable with.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
 
rockdrummer said:
My point is that using CS is a matter of choice. Nobody is imposing on the deaf community that they must use CS.
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NCSA does. They try to trigger fear in hearing parents by claiming if parents try to learn and use ASL with their deaf children, language development in the child will be hurt. Instead they must use CS, a thing that many deaf people find gross. This is called imposing on the deaf community that they must use CS.

If you put a deaf child without any language in a room with a cuer and a signer, we all know who the deaf child will focus on. It's not a matter of choice for deaf children but for parents scared to their wits by NCSA.
 
shel90 said:
CS is not a language..if a child is going to be exposed to CS, at least be exposed to ASL as well, otherwise, how will the child communicate with others? It was an invented system made to be used as a teaching tool but some took it and used it for language development. That's where I am very uncomfortable with.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
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The language is spoken English. The tool for 100% access is CS.
 
flip said:
NCSA does. They try to trigger fear in hearing parents by claiming if parents try to learn and use ASL with their deaf children, language development in the child will be hurt. Instead they must use CS, a thing that many deaf people find gross. This is called imposing on the deaf community that they must use CS.

If you put a deaf child without any language in a room with a cuer and a signer, we all know who the deaf child will focus on. It's not a matter of choice for deaf children but for parents scared to their wits by NCSA.
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Gross? Come on! Why would it be grosser than just speaking?

I know a child who cues, and she would watch the cuer, obviously. You have made a huge assumption that is untrue in many situations.
 
faire_jour said:
What is "natural"? ASL was not "natural" for me, but I learned it just fine.
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Shel90 was perhaps referencing to the term "natural language" in the field of linqustics, cited from wikipedia "In linguistic terms, natural language only applies to a language that has evolved naturally".

One have to be insane or lacking knowledge to ask hearing parents to ditch a natural language will full access and use a limited version of english with their deaf child.
 
faire_jour said:
Gross? Come on! Why would it be grosser than just speaking?

I know a child who cues, and she would watch the cuer, obviously. You have made a huge assumption that is untrue in many situations.
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Why do you think I have made assumptions? I have seen it and have friends that are cuers. Do you? Nope..

Ask the many deaf people why they find CS gross, and you will perhaps understand some day.
 
flip said:
Why do you think I have made assumptions? I have seen it and have friends that are cuers. Do you? Nope..

Ask the many deaf people why they find CS gross, and you will perhaps understand some day.
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I do. I know a family with two deaf kids who cue, and there is another girl in Miss Kat's grade that cues. When they are in a situation with signing and cuing, that watch the cues. THAT is what they use and understand.

I'm asking you why it's gross...
 
faire_jour said:
The language is spoken English. The tool for 100% access is CS.
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It's redundant to most bilingual children if you want fluency in english. SEE, morse code, fingerspelling gives so called 100% access as well. Most people who try CS give it up after a while.
 
flip said:
NCSA does. They try to trigger fear in hearing parents by claiming if parents try to learn and use ASL with their deaf children, language development in the child will be hurt. Instead they must use CS, a thing that many deaf people find gross. This is called imposing on the deaf community that they must use CS.

If you put a deaf child without any language in a room with a cuer and a signer, we all know who the deaf child will focus on. It's not a matter of choice for deaf children but for parents scared to their wits by NCSA.
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I don't know what NCSA is but as a parent of a deaf child, nobody has ever suggested anything of the sort to me. And I don't agree with your use of the word "imposing" or "fear". It paints an out of context picture.
 
flip said:
Shel90 was perhaps referencing to the term "natural language" in the field of linqustics, cited from wikipedia "In linguistic terms, natural language only applies to a language that has evolved naturally".

One have to be insane or lacking knowledge to ask hearing parents to ditch a natural language will full access and use a limited version of english with their deaf child.
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It isn't limited. It would be in addition to a full language. A language that the parents know and use. A language in which they are fluent and can joke and be colorful. A language in which their family would be fluent and the child would be surrounded by users.A language which they can use to explain everything they know. A language in which the parent can go to the zoo and read the signs to their child. A language in which a parent can converse freely and with fluency from day one.

What a horror!
 
faire_jour said:
I do. I know a family with two deaf kids who cue, and there is another girl in Miss Kat's grade that cues. When they are in a situation with signing and cuing, that watch the cues. THAT is what they use and understand.

I'm asking you why it's gross...
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Your knowledge are limited to parents and children who are too young to summarize their experiences.

As for why it's gross, I will not comment the visual aspect, but NCSA asking parents to ditch ASL and use CS instead with their deaf children is indeed gross.
 
rockdrummer said:
I don't know what NCSA is but as a parent of a deaf child, nobody has ever suggested anything of the sort to me. And I don't agree with your use of the word "imposing" or "fear". It paints an out of context picture.
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It was suggested here. Right on this forum, on this page :"On the other hand deaf children who have hearing parents may not do as well language-wise because their parents are learning at too slow of a rate how to sign, delaying the child's language development.".

You perhaps have some strict definitions on what "suggest to you" means?
 
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