ASL, SEE, PSE, etc.

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faire_jour said:
It isn't limited. It would be in addition to a full language. A language that the parents know and use. A language in which they are fluent and can joke and be colorful. A language in which their family would be fluent and the child would be surrounded by users.A language which they can use to explain everything they know. A language in which the parent can go to the zoo and read the signs to their child. A language in which a parent can converse freely and with fluency from day one.

What a horror!
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I agree it's horrible, even used in addition, but okay, though perhaps redundant. It's when CS is used alone it can become ugly.
 
flip said:
It was suggested here. Right on this forum, on this page :"On the other hand deaf children who have hearing parents may not do as well language-wise because their parents are learning at too slow of a rate how to sign, delaying the child's language development.".

You perhaps have some strict definitions on what "suggest to you" means?
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I have asked the professionals in my daughter's bi-bi school why she has "gaps" in her signing, their answer is ALWAYS "Because you are hearing."

It is a problem. If I don't use a CL or a particular "way" of signing, she won't. We had to go out of our way to add "different ways of numbering" to her goals becuadse Hubby and I only use one way.
 
flip said:
I agree it's horrible, even used in addition, but okay, though perhaps redundant. It's when CS is used alone it can become ugly.
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You clearly believe that there is exactly one way to raise a child. Thank goodness you are here. I was under the impression thst different things work for different kids. I know better now!
 
flip said:
It was suggested here. Right on this forum, on this page :"On the other hand deaf children who have hearing parents may not do as well language-wise because their parents are learning at too slow of a rate how to sign, delaying the child's language development.".

You perhaps have some strict definitions on what "suggest to you" means?
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It was not suggested to me and for the sake of argument, I would not take advise given on a forum by someone of which I have no idea what their credentials are, especially when it comes to the education of my deaf child. Please show me where, as you stated the NCSA is telling parents to ditch ASL. I went to their site and I have yet to find anything that resembles your claim. I am willing to examine anything you can provide me to the contrary.
 
For the record, I am not against ASL but it seems to me that there are some on this board that view any other method of communication as a threat to ASL. I get the impression there is this fear that ASL will be stamped out by all of these other communication methods when from my perspective, I see them as tools to help deaf folks learn to read and write English. Maybe I am missing something.
 
faire_jour said:
I have asked the professionals in my daughter's bi-bi school why she has "gaps" in her signing, their answer is ALWAYS "Because you are hearing."

It is a problem. If I don't use a CL or a particular "way" of signing, she won't. We had to go out of our way to add "different ways of numbering" to her goals becuadse Hubby and I only use one way.
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I have seen children suffering from parents who don't care to communicate, but never because they got hearing parents. Sorry, but it's something more here that is missing. It's not a problem like you try to make it sound like here.
 
faire_jour said:
You clearly believe that there is exactly one way to raise a child. Thank goodness you are here. I was under the impression thst different things work for different kids. I know better now!
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Just happy to help :)
 
flip said:
I have seen children suffering from parents who don't care to communicate, but never because they got hearing parents. Sorry, but it's something more here that is missing. It's not a problem like you try to make it sound like here.
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She is nearly age appropriate in ASL, and is academically, but there are still language gaps. For example, if I don't have a toaster in my house, I would never use that sign, and sinse she can't "overhear" other family members or the TV, she won't have that word. It would be impossible for her to know.

I am hearing, and still learning ASL. How am I a good language model if I am not a fluent user?
 
faire_jour said:
Ah, people wonder why some parents are pushed away from the Deaf community....it is very clear sometimes.....
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I was picking up on the facetious comments all along. Don't fault the entire deaf commuinty for the naiveness of a few, or of one.
 
rockdrummer said:
I was picking up on the facetious comments all along. Don't fault the entire deaf commuinty for the naiveness of a few, or of one.
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I don't. I know what an a$$hole looks like. I know that there are loving people in my community who want the very best for my girl, regardless of their political stands.
 
faire_jour said:
She is nearly age appropriate in ASL, and is academically, but there are still language gaps. For example, if I don't have a toaster in my house, I would never use that sign, and sinse she can't "overhear" other family members or the TV, she won't have that word. It would be impossible for her to know.

I am hearing, and still learning ASL. How am I a good language model if I am not a fluent user?
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Those language gaps you describe here really does not matter, and your child will not be hurt or suffer delays. Research also show that it's not necessary to be fluent in ASL.

"The implication of this research is straightforward and powerful: Deaf children's learning of English appears to benefit from the acquisition of even a moderate fluency in ASL.", cited by a research from Michael Strong and Philip M. Prinz, published in JDSDE(do a search there).

Or:

"The participants who had medium or high levels of ASL proficiency had correspondingly good English literacy skills regardless of the hearing status of their parents (Chamberlain et. al., 2000).", from Deaf Literacy / ASL and Reading

You have to calm down a bit, faire_jour.
 
rockdrummer said:
It was not suggested to me and for the sake of argument, I would not take advise given on a forum by someone of which I have no idea what their credentials are, especially when it comes to the education of my deaf child. Please show me where, as you stated the NCSA is telling parents to ditch ASL. I went to their site and I have yet to find anything that resembles your claim. I am willing to examine anything you can provide me to the contrary.
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"To provide clear and consistent exposure to language, parents should cue as often as possible to their child as soon they are able to do so. This will allow the child to acquire language as soon as possible, thereby also providing the best foundation for their child's literacy development. Parents should encourage their child to cue as soon as possible. Parents can visually provide the language of their home to their baby who is deaf or hard-of-hearing."

http://cuedspeech.org/PDF/Cueing_with_Babies.pdf

On ASL: ", one must be exposed to native and/ot fluent users of ASL to acquire it.", "A family that choose to learn how to sign and does not have ASL models consistenly available may place their deaf child at risk for an additional several years of first-language delay from the time of diagnosis."

http://www.cuedspeech.org/PDF/CS_why_is_it_important.pdf
 
flip said:
Those language gaps you describe here really does not matter, and your child will not be hurt or suffer delays. Research also show that it's not necessary to be fluent in ASL.

"The implication of this research is straightforward and powerful: Deaf children's learning of English appears to benefit from the acquisition of even a moderate fluency in ASL.", cited by a research from Michael Strong and Philip M. Prinz, published in JDSDE(do a search there).

Or:

"The participants who had medium or high levels of ASL proficiency had correspondingly good English literacy skills regardless of the hearing status of their parents (Chamberlain et. al., 2000).", from Deaf Literacy / ASL and Reading

You have to calm down a bit, faire_jour.
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You need to understand that saying bad ASL can't possibly effect the child's language, is not true. If a parent only uses 50 signs, is the child going to magically learn more? Of course not.

And that research you quoted is talking about the CHILD's fluency, not the parents.
 
flip said:
"To provide clear and consistent exposure to language, parents should cue as often as possible to their child as soon they are able to do so. This will allow the child to acquire language as soon as possible, thereby also providing the best foundation for their child's literacy development. Parents should encourage their child to cue as soon as possible. Parents can visually provide the language of their home to their baby who is deaf or hard-of-hearing."

http://cuedspeech.org/PDF/Cueing_with_Babies.pdf

On ASL: ", one must be exposed to native and/ot fluent users of ASL to acquire it.", "A family that choose to learn how to sign and does not have ASL models consistenly available may place their deaf child at risk for an additional several years of first-language delay from the time of diagnosis."

http://www.cuedspeech.org/PDF/CS_why_is_it_important.pdf
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I agree with the second statement.

Aren't there people who complain EVERYDAY here that their parents don't sign well enough?
 
faire_jour said:
You need to understand that saying bad ASL can't possibly effect the child's language, is not true. If a parent only uses 50 signs, is the child going to magically learn more? Of course not.

And that research you quoted is talking about the CHILD's fluency, not the parents.
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I give up, someone here is pushing away the deaf community...
 
flip said:
I give up, someone here is pushing away the deaf community...
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Nope, just you. I refuse to accept the "only my way is right" mind-set. It is ridiculous to think that one knows everything.
 
faire_jour said:
I agree with the second statement.

Aren't there people who complain EVERYDAY here that their parents don't sign well enough?
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My mom and dad sign shit, but I have never complained about it, as it did not matter. Most people complain about oral obsessed parents and parents how don't care to communicate with their children. Not lack of sign language.....
 
faire_jour said:
Ah, people wonder why some parents are pushed away from the Deaf community....it is very clear sometimes.....
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It would be the parents' attitudes that ostracises themselves from the Deaf community not vice versa.

They just find it easy to target the Deaf Community figuring since they can't speak.. the ostracised parents can speak volumes for themselves which is quite a bad way.
 
flip said:
My mom and dad sign shit, but I have never complained about it, as it did not matter. Most people complain about oral obsessed parents and parents how don't care to communicate with their children. Not lack of sign language.....
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Like I said, the attitude and the approach they feel is appropiate but ends up ostracising themselves from the Deaf Community.
 
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