ASL, SEE, PSE, etc.

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Mrs Bucket said:
It would be the parents' attitudes that ostracises themselves from the Deaf community not vice versa.

They just find it easy to target the Deaf Community figuring since they can't speak.. the ostracised parents can speak volumes for themselves which is quite a bad way.
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Really? So if I get called a child abuser, that I "raped my child" by giving them a CI, and that my child is a freak, a "frankenstein", and that it makes them want to puke when they see her.....That is all on me? Nope, there are bad apples out there, and if that bull had been my first experience, I doubt I would have returned. I am lucky that I was embraced BEFORE she got the CI. I don't know what would have happened otherwise....
 
Mrs Bucket said:
Like I said, the attitude and the approach they feel is appropiate but ends up ostracising themselves from the Deaf Community.
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Yeah.. It's funny how they demand support and advices from the deaf community, as if it was a social service office, and when they get advices that does not fit with their approach, it's we who are pushing them away.. Jeez.
 
faire_jour said:
Nope, just you. I refuse to accept the "only my way is right" mind-set. It is ridiculous to think that one knows everything.
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Faire_jour, have you really observed how your daughter socialises differently with both the Deaf and hearing children?

They are much different and it would benefit Miss Kat if you would give up on the obsession of being correct. It's not about you, faire_jour, you know. It's about Miss Kat, your Deaf daughter who will always need the Deaf Community and ASL to succeed in the future.

She's a small child and she will need her community to back her up. She doesn't need a mother to nitpick what communication methods to use and constantly perfect her.
 
flip said:
My mom and dad sign shit, but I have never complained about it, as it did not matter. Most people complain about oral obsessed parents and parents how don't care to communicate with their children. Not lack of sign language.....
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I have never met a parent who "don't care to communicate" with their child. I HAVE known people who have chosen a different way than I have. THAT is totally different.
 
flip said:
"To provide clear and consistent exposure to language, parents should cue as often as possible to their child as soon they are able to do so. This will allow the child to acquire language as soon as possible, thereby also providing the best foundation for their child's literacy development. Parents should encourage their child to cue as soon as possible. Parents can visually provide the language of their home to their baby who is deaf or hard-of-hearing."

http://cuedspeech.org/PDF/Cueing_with_Babies.pdf

On ASL: ", one must be exposed to native and/ot fluent users of ASL to acquire it.", "A family that choose to learn how to sign and does not have ASL models consistenly available may place their deaf child at risk for an additional several years of first-language delay from the time of diagnosis."

http://www.cuedspeech.org/PDF/CS_why_is_it_important.pdf
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Here is the entire excerpt. I don't see anything in there that is incorrect nor do I see anything that, as you say instills "fear" into the parents or suggests that they drop ASL. There is nothing remotely close to what you have claimed.

Source: http://www.cuedspeech.org/PDF/CS_why_is_it_important.pdf

American Sign Language
American Sign Language (ASL) is a language with its own grammar, syntax and community; however, one must be exposed to native and/or fluent users of ASL to acquire it. Since the majority of children who are deaf or hard-of-hearing have hearing parents (90%), these children usually have limited access to appropriate ASL language models. It typically takes several years to become fluent in any new language. A family that chooses to learn how to sign placand does not have ASL models consistently available may e their deaf child at risk for an additional several years of first-language delay from the time of diagnosis. Deaf children of Deaf parents or other fluent signers are not at risk for for language delay and have access to a solid foundation
for learning English as a second language.
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faire_jour said:
Really? So if I get called a child abuser, that I "raped my child" by giving them a CI, and that my child is a freak, a "frankenstein", and that it makes them want to puke when they see her.....That is all on me? Nope, there are bad apples out there, and if that bull had been my first experience, I doubt I would have returned. I am lucky that I was embraced BEFORE she got the CI. I don't know what would have happened otherwise....
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Otherwise you would run away, thinking that the whole deaf community was a beast chasing you. Wow, you really have a strong group mentality if that's your way of thinking.
 
faire_jour said:
Really? So if I get called a child abuser, that I "raped my child" by giving them a CI, and that my child is a freak, a "frankenstein", and that it makes them want to puke when they see her.....That is all on me? Nope, there are bad apples out there, and if that bull had been my first experience, I doubt I would have returned. I am lucky that I was embraced BEFORE she got the CI. I don't know what would have happened otherwise....
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You make the decisions, you choose to live with it. As a mother, you must protect your daughter. It's not about your feelings, get over it! It's about a little girl with a CI and she will need all the support she can get. Your feelings comes last.

You cannot expect to be embraced by the Deaf Community?! I haven't accepted you, YET!

You want to be accepted.. you MUST accept our opinions, stop correcting us, stop shoving your opinions down our throat. The day you become "D"eaf" like jillio is the day you accept Miss Kat's deafness.
 
faire_jour said:
I have never met a parent who "don't care to communicate" with their child. I HAVE known people who have chosen a different way than I have. THAT is totally different.
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I have obviously met more parents that you have..
 
flip said:
Shel90 was perhaps referencing to the term "natural language" in the field of linqustics, cited from wikipedia "In linguistic terms, natural language only applies to a language that has evolved naturally".

One have to be insane or lacking knowledge to ask hearing parents to ditch a natural language will full access and use a limited version of english with their deaf child.
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Thank u..that was what I meant by natural language.

Who will ask hearing children to use a false system for language development? Nobody. Deaf people dont try to take the English language and modify to suit their needs especially with language development. Hearing people have done that to ASL.
 
Mrs Bucket said:
Faire_jour, have you really observed how your daughter socialises differently with both the Deaf and hearing children?

They are much different and it would benefit Miss Kat if you would give up on the obsession of being correct. It's not about you, faire_jour, you know. It's about Miss Kat, your Deaf daughter who will always need the Deaf Community and ASL to succeed in the future.

She's a small child and she will need her community to back her up. She doesn't need a mother to nitpick what communication methods to use and constantly perfect her.
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You don't know me, or my child. I am a wonderful, involved, educated, informed, gentle, AP mother. I wouldn't change a thing about my daughter. I DO have a community backing me up. Several in fact. I have a big family that is very close to us, a supportive Deaf community in real life, and a strong church to back us up.

I hate that this place is nothing but a place to congratulate yourselves on how you are right and the stupid hearing world will never understand. If you dare think any differently, or ask questions, you get villified and called names....some "community".
 
shel90 said:
Hearing people have done that to ASL.
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Namely A.G. Bell and it's called Eugenics.

Unfortunately the hearing parents still think it's the best approach with their Deaf children and reject the Deaf community's approach, calling us ASL militants with low functioning English level. :roll:
 
rockdrummer said:
For the record, I am not against ASL but it seems to me that there are some on this board that view any other method of communication as a threat to ASL. I get the impression there is this fear that ASL will be stamped out by all of these other communication methods when from my perspective, I see them as tools to help deaf folks learn to read and write English. Maybe I am missing something.
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I have seen what happens to many children when they are exposed to many different systems instead of true languages. It isnt right. Hearing children arent being subjected to different systems.
 
Mrs Bucket said:
Namely A.G. Bell and it's called Eugenics.

Unfortunately the hearing parents still think it's the best approach with their Deaf children and reject the Deaf community's approach, calling us ASL militants with low functioning English level. :roll:
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I know..we are the ones who are deaf, not them. We are the ones who have to live with the consequences if the systems fail us.
 
faire_jour said:
You don't know me, or my child. I am a wonderful, involved, educated, informed, gentle, AP mother. I wouldn't change a thing about my daughter. I DO have a community backing me up. Several in fact. I have a big family that is very close to us, a supportive Deaf community in real life, and a strong church to back us up.

I hate that this place is nothing but a place to congratulate yourselves on how you are right and the stupid hearing world will never understand. If you dare think any differently, or ask questions, you get villified and called names....some "community".
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Honey, why are you constantly here?

You must be a glutton for punishment posting here. :laugh2:
 
rockdrummer said:
Here is the entire excerpt. I don't see anything in there that is incorrect nor do I see anything that, as you say instills "fear" into the parents or suggests that they drop ASL. There is nothing remotely close to what you have claimed.
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Yes it's. NCSA claims fluency at a near native level is needed to use ASL as a tool to acquire language, something that not is true. Ask yourself why they claim this, even if it's proved to not be true.
 
flip said:
"To provide clear and consistent exposure to language, parents should cue as often as possible to their child as soon they are able to do so. This will allow the child to acquire language as soon as possible, thereby also providing the best foundation for their child's literacy development. Parents should encourage their child to cue as soon as possible. Parents can visually provide the language of their home to their baby who is deaf or hard-of-hearing."

http://cuedspeech.org/PDF/Cueing_with_Babies.pdf

On ASL: ", one must be exposed to native and/ot fluent users of ASL to acquire it.", "A family that choose to learn how to sign and does not have ASL models consistenly available may place their deaf child at risk for an additional several years of first-language delay from the time of diagnosis."

http://www.cuedspeech.org/PDF/CS_why_is_it_important.pdf
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I question that statement...what's their agenda, really?
 
Mrs Bucket said:
You make the decisions, you choose to live with it. As a mother, you must protect your daughter. It's not about your feelings, get over it! It's about a little girl with a CI and she will need all the support she can get. Your feelings comes last.

You cannot expect to be embraced by the Deaf Community?! I haven't accepted you, YET!

You want to be accepted.. you MUST accept our opinions, stop correcting us, stop shoving your opinions down our throat. The day you become "D"eaf" like jillio is the day you accept Miss Kat's deafness.
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What on earth have I done that is NOT accepting her? Providing her with ASL from the start? Placing her in a bi-bi school? Making sure we go to every single Deaf event? Paying thosands of dollars to take every ASL class availiable? Continuing ASL after her CI? Making sure that she stays in contact with her Deaf friends all summer? Driving 10 times further, to make sure she can attend a church with other Deaf kids, and the program in ASL?

Tell me how I'm not living up to the "requirements"?
 
rockdrummer said:
do you mean the deaf community or the D/deaf community. From what I have learned, they are quite different.
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Feel free to choose. I really don't care, and I am not that obsessed with this D/deaf thing as some parents are.
 
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