Armed group take over Oregon wildlife refuge

[Jiro]

for those wondering who is Peter Santilli...

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/pete_santilli_militants_suppor.html

Santilli, a self-styled journalist, took to social media to discuss the breaking development late Tuesday afternoon. He also reported that the FBI has told the protesters at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge that they are free to go and need to leave immediately.

Santilli said he was waiting at the hospital to confirm the reports of the shootings.

The following account was posted on a Facebook page associated with Santilli:

"This evening, the FBI made a legal, felony stop on a vehicle carrying Ammon Bundy and several other individuals. After a shoot out with the FBI, four individuals were reportedly taken into custody, including Ammon Bundy. Two individuals are reported to have been taken to the Burns hospital, which is currently on lock down. FBI sources stated that those at the Refuge are currently free to leave unimpeded, implying that there might be action it they do not leave immediately."

 

[Jiro]

They got a lot of attention on news that annoyed me and it isn't fair for citizens who cannot make anything that similar to them, without consequence.

No, I don't find any problems with FBI, but I do have problem with local and state.

oh my.... you should have a problem with FBI... local and state police are not as bad as the feds... you should know that the feds have extensive history of cover-ups and misuse of power going back for decades. perhaps you should read more about J. Edgar Hoover and post-9/11. it is extremely disturbing to me that FBI's reach extends past our international line.

FBI's history is very spotty at best.

 

[Steinhauer]

if that fax is genuine (at this point, I have no idea), it means Santilli was a paid spook.

And it is a fact that the FBI are not letting media in to the Wildlife Refuge (not even News Choppers).

Since when can they suspend Constitutional Rights? If they are doing nothing wrong, they should have News Crews covering every angle of this story. Why should they get their privacy, when the NSA has violated every American's 4th Amendment rights?

Just curious.

 

[Foxrac]

oh my.... you should have a problem with FBI... local and state police are not as bad as the feds... you should know that the feds have extensive history of cover-ups and misuse of power going back for decades. perhaps you should read more about J. Edgar Hoover and post-9/11. it is extremely disturbing to me that FBI's reach extends past our international line.

FBI's history is very spotty at best.

For me, it will be part of problem if it does affect me, but for others, it isn't my problem. I never encountered or interrogated by FBI in my life. I have a lot of problem with city police in our city because our city is broke so they use massive ticketing for profiting the city, by ticket anyone for not breaking a law and the court is corrupted - the judge is 99% side with police officers, even if they don't show up at court and find someone to testify against us. My sister had too many tickets and she hired a lawyer to fight without success so she was closer to license suspension so she moved out of city to different city. Our city raised the sale tax to 10% and I usually shopping online to avoid paying sale tax to fund the corrupted politicians. I can't wait to get out of city when I return to Gally this fall.

If you think that FBI has a lot of problem so why they aren't investigate by the congress, but oh wait, the congress is too lazy to doing investigation on FBI. I'm dealing with our city and not worry about others, including FBI.

 

[Steinhauer]

Gee, you are moving from one corrupt city to a more corruptlier and corruptest city of them all.

 

[Jiro]

For me, it will be part of problem if it does affect me, but for others, it isn't my problem. I never encountered or interrogated by FBI in my life. I have a lot of problem with city police in our city because our city is broke so they use massive ticketing for profiting the city, by ticket anyone for not breaking a law and the court is corrupted - the judge is 99% side with police officers, even if they don't show up at court and find someone to testify against us. My sister had too many tickets and she hired a lawyer to fight without success so she was closer to license suspension so she moved out of city to different city. Our city raised the sale tax to 10% and I usually shopping online to avoid paying sale tax to fund the corrupted politicians. I can't wait to get out of city when I return to Gally this fall.

oh I see..... you're worried about some extremely trivial issue like traffic courts instead of law-abiding citizens' constitutional rights... I see... no problem.

following your own logic... perhaps your sister shouldn't try to break the laws and things would be just lot easier for her.

If you think that FBI has a lot of problem so why they aren't investigate by the congress, but oh wait, the congress is too lazy to doing investigation on FBI. I'm dealing with our city and not worry about others, including FBI.

because like you said.... "not my problem".

when you have thousands and thousands of citizens shrugging and saying - "not my problem"... Congress won't act on it. they are not too lazy... you are lazy. Congress mainly acts when voters are angry.

again... if you read about J. Edgar Hoover... you will see that anyone including Congressmen are going against FBI.... Hoover would have them investigated and followed to obtain any incriminating audio/video/pictures in order to blackmail them. that is not the first and last time it's happened.

 

[Foxrac]

oh I see..... you're worried about some extremely trivial issue like traffic courts instead of law-abiding citizens' constitutional rights... I see... no problem.


because like you said.... "not my problem".

when you have thousands and thousands of citizens shrugging and saying - "not my problem"... Congress won't act on it. they are not too lazy... you are lazy. Congress mainly acts when voters are angry.

again... if you read about J. Edgar Hoover... you will see that anyone including Congressmen are going against FBI.... Hoover would have them investigated and followed to obtain any incriminating audio/video/pictures in order to blackmail them. that is not the first and last time it's happened.

I'm not victim of FBI action so I'm not going to involve, but citizens who are victim of FBI action should take action, especially demonstration in DC and demand the Congress to take action, such as investigation. I have difficult to understand about citizens whoever have problem with FBI and it is very complicated so I just like oh well.

Illegal traffic tickets have serious consequence on us and some of them have financial hardship, even some of them have driver license suspension and there is no public transportation in our city. I found GoPro camera did trick and our city police hate when drivers use GoPro camera to record the road activities. However, it is different because I'm no longer to drive due to my vision issues, but I'm worrying about my families. There are many cities have same problem that is similar to Ferguson.

Someone said about corruptlier and corruptest city, I have no issue with DC and it is great metro for deafblind communities, but I only have some problems with Gally, not DC.

I guess everyone have different experience.

 

[Foxrac]

I read about J. Edgar Hoover and I was OMG at him.

No surprise about there is corruption in every law enforcement agencies so that why I don't trust all type of LEO.

 

[Foxrac]

About a mile away, out of sight, the FBI and state police had set up a road block.

But Finicum, with police in hot pursuit, attempted to leave the main road and drove into a snow bank. When he emerged from the vehicle, FBI and state police ordered him to surrender. That's when, authorities say, Finicum reached down toward his waistband where he had a gun.

The SWAT team opened fire. Finicum was killed. Ryan Bundy suffered a light wound on his arm.

The shooting was captured on camera by the SWAT team. FBI and Oregon police officials are discussing possibly releasing the video, in part to counter claims by supporters that Finicum was gunned down while trying to surrender.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/27/us/oregon-siege-traffic-stop/index.html

 

[Reba]

for those wondering who is Peter Santilli...

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/pete_santilli_militants_suppor.html

To me, "a shootout with the FBI" indicates a shooting that was two-way from both parties. Was that the case, or was it a one-way shooting? Or can it be confirmed yet?

 

[Reba]

I read about J. Edgar Hoover and I was OMG at him.

No surprise about there is corruption in every law enforcement agencies so that why I don't trust all type of LEO.

It isn't realistic to lump all LEO together.

If you can't trust any LEO, who do you trust to protect you from crime?

Even as bad as the system is, without LEO our society would be in chaos. That's human nature.

 

[Reba]

What if the Legislators doing legislative action are the ones breaking the law?

How so? Legislators only make the laws, they don't enforce them. That's up to the Executive branch. If the laws they pass aren't Constitutionally legal, then it's up to the Judicial branch to catch that and overturn those laws.

How is that addressed?

Can you give an example?

 

[Reba]

. . .

I don't believe that militias groups are productive citizens . . .

They do seem to have a lot of time on their hands to do stuff.

I'm not concerned if police officers or FBI went over the authority, that's their problem, not mine.

If it's true, then it's everyone's problem. If they can abuse their authority over one group, they can abuse their authority over any other group. It's only a matter of time.

Stay out of trouble and follow police's command, that's not hard to do it.

Depends on the definition of "trouble." One person's "trouble" is another person's expression of Constitutional rights.

 

[Foxrac]

It isn't realistic to lump all LEO together.

If you can't trust any LEO, who do you trust to protect you from crime?

Even as bad as the system is, without LEO our society would be in chaos. That's human nature.

I said all type of LEO have problem with trumping the constitution, even local police officers could be bad as FBI agents.

 

[Foxrac]

They do seem to have a lot of time on their hands to do stuff.



If it's true, then it's everyone's problem. If they can abuse their authority over one group, they can abuse their authority over any other group. It's only a matter of time.


Depends on the definition of "trouble." One person's "trouble" is another person's expression of Constitutional rights.

Illegal takeover of federal properties aren't expressing their constitutional rights and it isn't okay for them to break a law.

I don't agree with militias group about dumping all public federal lands.

 

[Reba]

I said all type of LEO have problem with trumping the constitution, even local police officers could be bad as FBI agents.

All types of LEO can be susceptible to corruption but that doesn't mean all LEO are corrupted, and certainly not all officers within any department.

Sure, local police officers could be bad but that doesn't mean that they are.

If you don't trust LEO's, who or what do you trust to protect you from criminals?

 

[Foxrac]

All types of LEO can be susceptible to corruption but that doesn't mean all LEO are corrupted, and certainly not all officers within any department.

Sure, local police officers could be bad but that doesn't mean that they are.

If you don't trust LEO's, who or what do you trust to protect you from criminals?

There are many people have problem with LEO and there are a lot of politics in local, especially in Ferguson's case. If cities couldn't find enough money to support so they will find way to collect money by ticketing innocent people frequently for violation that they don't commit.

I keep between me and LEO to minimum so I won't befriend with them for some reason, so I don't believe that they are actually protect the crime and there are many cities with high crime rate as they are too busy to bust someone who use marijuana at private home. SWAT has went skyrocketing from 1980 to now.

 

[Reba]

Illegal takeover of federal properties aren't expressing their constitutional rights and it isn't okay for them to break a law.

I don't agree with militias group about dumping all public federal lands.

I wasn't limiting my statement to this militia example only. There are other non-violent expressions of rights such as DPN, or civil rights protests of the 60's, Gay Pride marches, or various boycotts. One form of expression might be legal one day and might not legal another day, and vice versa.

 

[Foxrac]

I wasn't limiting my statement to this militia example only. There are other non-violent expressions of rights such as DPN, or civil rights protests of the 60's, Gay Pride marches, or various boycotts. One form of expression might be legal one day and might not legal another day, and vice versa.

If they don't break a law so that's not problem.

 

[Reba]

There are many people have problem with LEO and there are a lot of politics in local, especially in Ferguson's case. If cities couldn't find enough money to support so they will find way to collect money by ticketing innocent people frequently for violation that they don't commit.

I keep between me and LEO to minimum so I won't befriend with them for some reason, so I don't believe that they are actually protect the crime and there are many cities with high crime rate as they are too busy to bust someone who use marijuana at private home. SWAT has went skyrocketing from 1980 to now.

So, if you get attacked on the street, or your home is burglarized, or your valuables are stolen, or a loved one is missing/raped/murdered, who do you call?