Armed group take over Oregon wildlife refuge

Status
Not open for further replies.
Reba said:
So, if you get attacked on the street, or your home is burglarized, or your valuables are stolen, or a loved one is missing/raped/murdered, who do you call?
Click to expand...

You don't get it.

I clearly said that I kept between me and LEO to MINIMUM that is only necessary to protect myself from victim of crime, but I already victim of robbery in DC and LEO didn't help. I'm not going get too much affiliate with LEO.
 
Foxrac said:
You don't get it.

I clearly said that I kept between me and LEO to MINIMUM that is only necessary to protect myself from victim of crime, but I already victim of robbery in DC and LEO didn't help. I'm not going get too much affiliate with LEO.
Click to expand...
You posted that you wouldn't befriend them; that's not the same as calling them for help.

Now you've clarified that you would contact them if necessary, so OK. :)

What do you think is the solution to corrupt LEO?
 
Reba said:
You posted that you wouldn't befriend them; that's not the same as calling them for help.

Now you've clarified that you would contact them if necessary, so OK. :)

What do you think is the solution to corrupt LEO?
Click to expand...

Contact LEO for help is minimum way to interact with LEO but some people went beyond, such as donation, attend community meeting and getting involved with LEO.

There is way to end the corruption is end the drug war, including end of mass incarnation, end the asset forfeiture, arrest and punish the politicians who committed corruption, restore the trust between community and LEO and appoint someone to oversee cities to ensure that they aren't corrupted like they are doing in Ferguson.
 
Foxrac said:
You don't get it.

I clearly said that I kept between me and LEO to MINIMUM that is only necessary to protect myself from victim of crime, but I already victim of robbery in DC and LEO didn't help. I'm not going get too much affiliate with LEO.
Click to expand...

just like everybody else... there's not much they can do about robbery. someone broke into my truck to steal GPS and NYPD couldn't do much about it. I don't blame them nor harbor any negative feeling about it.

think about it - you're a cop. someone called you about getting mugged. you showed up and took a report. what are you going to do about it? dust the crime scene for fingerprint? go undercover to find a petty thief?
 
Jiro said:
just like everybody else... there's not much they can do about robbery. someone broke into my truck to steal GPS and NYPD couldn't do much about it. I don't blame them nor harbor any negative feeling about it.

think about it - you're a cop. someone called you about getting mugged. you showed up and took a report. what are you going to do about it? dust the crime scene for fingerprint? go undercover to find a petty thief?
Click to expand...

I will try to find identity whoever stole and it is difficult to solve the crime like that.

The police department see murder as higher priority to investigate over robbery.
 
Here is the video:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ[/ame]

It is hard to tell if this was a justified shooting. He did not charge the police, as was originally reported, and it appears the eyewitness account of the 18 year old girl in the truck was spot on. He was shot at during the initial stop, which caused him to bolt. He then exited the vehicle after attempting to avoid a collision with the road block - and it looks like he struck an officer. He exited the vehicle WITH HIS HANDS UP.

He does appear to grab towards his waist twice, both times, it looks like he lost footing and was trying to regain his balance.
 
There is FBI statement with two different video - one of them is short version.

https://www.fbi.gov/portland/press-...ation-at-the-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge

Oregon State Troopers shot LaVoy Finicum to death.

It looks like he made sudden move when got out of car.

If he stayed in car and awaiting for police command so he will be alive by now.

This video remind me of GTA-style car chasing then collide into hill and got instantly shot by police officer.
 
there would be a reason for him to exit the vehicle with his hands in the air.

He was shot at during the time his vehicle was stopped earlier in the video, while inside the vehicle. He wanted to clearly show he was not armed.

Regardless, what's done is done. You can't exactly gain credibility when attempting to show a corrupt judicial system when you are willing to break the law yourself.
 
Steinhauer said:
there would be a reason for him to exit the vehicle with his hands in the air.

He was shot at during the time his vehicle was stopped earlier in the video, while inside the vehicle. He wanted to clearly show he was not armed.

Regardless, what's done is done. You can't exactly gain credibility when attempting to show a corrupt judicial system when you are willing to break the law yourself.
Click to expand...

I don't think so. You cannot speak for his action. The only person who can explain his action is himself.

If he wanted to "clearly" show he was not armed... he would not have bolted at high rate of speed and he would not have immediately exit his vehicle and "wildy" moving around. and he would not have reached into his waist couple of times. Cops already have seen too many actions just like this and it's usually because the perpetrator was armed while faking surrender.

according to FBI statement -
Finicum leaves the truck and steps through the snow. Agents and troopers on scene had information that Finicum and others would be armed. On at least two occasions, Finicum reaches his right hand toward a pocket on the left inside portion of his jacket. He did have a loaded 9 mm semi-automatic handgun in that pocket.
Click to expand...
 
Jiro said:
I don't think so. You cannot speak for his action. The only person who can explain his action is himself.

If he wanted to "clearly" show he was not armed... he would not have bolted at high rate of speed and he would not have immediately exit his vehicle and "wildy" moving around. and he would not have reached into his waist couple of times. Cops already have seen too many actions just like this and it's usually because the perpetrator was armed while faking surrender.

according to FBI statement -
Click to expand...

Yes, that what I believe too and he should stay in vehicle and be quiet until they hear police's command to follow the instruction. It looks like deadly felony stop.

I believe that he's martyr, IMO.

I'm just curious about what kind of gun that Oregon State Trooper use to kill him.

I read a lot of comments and surprised about they argued whichever is justifiable killing, but I felt it is, however, I rather to wait for LEO to finish the investigation and review, but it will not going away.

I found this situation is very tragic and federal government, and possibly state government could have improve the transparency and relation with communities about long time ago after Ruby Ridge and Waco Siege.
 
It may not related to situation about militias group, but I found one is interesting article about situation with economy in Oregon - outside of Portland metro.

The economy in Oregon used to be thriving with loggers and miners, on both of private and public lands, but it went downhill in 80s and 90s when federal declared one of owl species (Northern spotted owl) as threatened and banned the logging on federal land in 1991, also mining closed after they ran out of resource. It changed a lot for people who live outside of Portland metro.

The conservation is divided between two whichever Northern spotted owl should be saved or go extinct, but this owl's population is declining due to competition from barred owls. Some people believe that conservation is unnecessary and for myself, I'm not sure about benefits to save Northern spotted owl.

Also, there is major problem, many of logging are replaced with automation to cut the number of workers so it hurt very much when they lost the job. Now, many of towns in Oregon has replaced with retirees and disabilities who bought the properties for cheap, even similar situation in Alabama when many textile mills closed in 80s and 90s so there isn't many job growth, beside minimum wage jobs, but we have retirees that moved to our state, especially from Midwest and neighboring states.

If you cut Portland metro out, state of Oregon has high poverty rate, but Portland metro is thriving with IT companies and diverse of small businesses with great public transportation. It is excellent place for deafblind people, but DC, Seattle and SF metro are better.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/16/u...n-logging-is-looking-for-a-second-growth.html
 
Jiro said:
I don't think so. You cannot speak for his action. The only person who can explain his action is himself.

If he wanted to "clearly" show he was not armed... he would not have bolted at high rate of speed and he would not have immediately exit his vehicle and "wildy" moving around. and he would not have reached into his waist couple of times. Cops already have seen too many actions just like this and it's usually because the perpetrator was armed while faking surrender.

according to FBI statement -
Click to expand...

This is the enhanced video

When someone exits a vehicle with their arms in the air - that is a universal gesture of surrender. The Officer in the lower right places both hands on his gun, takes aim then you see a recoil - immediately after, you see Finicum lowering his arms to the position on his body where the officer had aimed.

The official statement from the FBI was that he was reaching for a loaded 9mm in his left pocket. All of the pictures of Finicum shows him wearing a .45 on his right side.

(ever since the Waco investigations, I have questioned the motives of my government, we are still allowed to do that).

now, to clarify, I am not assigning blame on the LEO's in this incident. Finicum has made several statements that he would rather be killed than taken to jail. But ... this really looks to me as if he was attempting to surrender. I am also finding out that none of the video released by the FBI has any audio. There are also no dashcam or bodycam footage to speak of. I question these things, not because I am paranoid, but because I know corruption in government is rampant.


Also, there was an 18 year old girl inside the vehicle with Finicum that made a statement that he bolted from the first stop because he was shot at when he stuck his head out the window. Now ... no way for anyone to determine if this happened or not, due to no audio being released. i am just reading this stuff around the interwebz and I do realize a lot of it is speculatory BS.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUzzrjBo_HU[/ame]
 
In general, LEO want to see hands stick out from a stopped vehicle, not heads.

If you are outside the vehicle, to show that you're not armed, you should face away from the LEO, raise your hands full in the air, and then wait for further instruction.

Next step would probably be to kneel down and cross ankles behind you.

Or, while standing, slowly turn around, one step at a time, ending up facing away again.

Dashing out of a vehicle is never a good idea. Any quick movements are a bad idea.
 
Reba said:
In general, LEO want to see hands stick out from a stopped vehicle, not heads.

If you are outside the vehicle, to show that you're not armed, you should face away from the LEO, raise your hands full in the air, and then wait for further instruction.

Next step would probably be to kneel down and cross ankles behind you.

Or, while standing, slowly turn around, one step at a time, ending up facing away again.

Dashing out of a vehicle is never a good idea. Any quick movements are a bad idea.
Click to expand...

I had felony stop when I was 19 and it was very scared as hell - I saw police pointing the gun at me and I had no idea about what he asked because I can't hear police's command so I stayed in vehicle. I had no idea about what happened. I yelled and wave out of car's window. They came to me and they harshly ask me if I was chasing and drinking so I said no. I said that i couldn't find a best place to pullover so I continue to exit overpass. They asked me repeatly and I told them that I have to working so no way for me to be drunk so they tested me and it turned to be zero.

Police officers are extremely aggressive and cruel with felony stop and I didn't know about how to deal because my parents nor residential school never teach me.
 
Reba said:
In general, LEO want to see hands stick out from a stopped vehicle, not heads.

If you are outside the vehicle, to show that you're not armed, you should face away from the LEO, raise your hands full in the air, and then wait for further instruction.

Next step would probably be to kneel down and cross ankles behind you.

Or, while standing, slowly turn around, one step at a time, ending up facing away again.

Dashing out of a vehicle is never a good idea. Any quick movements are a bad idea.
Click to expand...

He was walking in about 4 feet of snow, I did not see him "charging at the police" as was originally reported. I saw him raising his arms in the air, then he got shot by the officer in the lower right of the screen and reached to where he was hit, that prompted the officer who came up behind him to deploy a kill shot (to the head?).
 
Steinhauer said:
This is the enhanced video

When someone exits a vehicle with their arms in the air - that is a universal gesture of surrender. The Officer in the lower right places both hands on his gun, takes aim then you see a recoil - immediately after, you see Finicum lowering his arms to the position on his body where the officer had aimed.

The official statement from the FBI was that he was reaching for a loaded 9mm in his left pocket. All of the pictures of Finicum shows him wearing a .45 on his right side.

(ever since the Waco investigations, I have questioned the motives of my government, we are still allowed to do that).

now, to clarify, I am not assigning blame on the LEO's in this incident. Finicum has made several statements that he would rather be killed than taken to jail. But ... this really looks to me as if he was attempting to surrender. I am also finding out that none of the video released by the FBI has any audio. There are also no dashcam or bodycam footage to speak of. I question these things, not because I am paranoid, but because I know corruption in government is rampant.


Also, there was an 18 year old girl inside the vehicle with Finicum that made a statement that he bolted from the first stop because he was shot at when he stuck his head out the window. Now ... no way for anyone to determine if this happened or not, due to no audio being released. i am just reading this stuff around the interwebz and I do realize a lot of it is speculatory BS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUzzrjBo_HU
Click to expand...

I am seeing nothing but a green picture , I did see this on the news tonight and to my surprise it showed the guy getting shot and falling to the ground. That part is mostly blocked out on the news .
 
Steinhauer said:
He was walking in about 4 feet of snow, I did not see him "charging at the police" as was originally reported. I saw him raising his arms in the air, then he got shot by the officer in the lower right of the screen and reached to where he was hit, that prompted the officer who came up behind him to deploy a kill shot (to the head?).
Click to expand...
My comment was about general procedures, not this particular shooting.

It would be helpful to the investigation if they have some ground level footage from other cameras. It's really hard to see details on the aerial footage.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top