Anybody here like Keith Wann?

[gnulinuxman]

But I do NOT sign, and since you complain there is no ASL used nationwide I complain why there is no CC everywhere? I demand to have CC on everything, period.

What about rights of HoH?
Are you going to force your ASL on me NOW?

Fuzzy

I did NOT say "force everybodyto only use sign language".

Besides, not understanding it is your problem, not mine.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Besides, not understanding it is your problem, not mine.

But the same token sweetie not understanding is every deaf person's problem, not a hearing person problem.
Byt this way of thinking these TV producers would never care to start providing CC - this is YOUR problem deafie to understand, not us hearies... hmm??

It was YOUR choice not to sign. We didn't prevent you from learning to sign. We didn't stop you from enjoying it because of that and because we didn't make the video.
Don't blame the Deaf community for your problem either because their native language in the US is ASL, not English.

Sorry man but 1:

this is exactly the bullcrap that the deaf community is shoving to the hearing pple demanding from them to learn ASL for communicating purposes with deaf pple.
Well it's your choice for example not to learn proper English in order to be able to enjoy CC movies, books, other hearing pple.

This time, you are representant of ASL and YOU tell ME to learn ASL if I want to understand YOU. Yet you are offended when hearing pple don't rush to do exactly the same for the deaf!!

It's the same as telling the deaf person "if you want to understand us, learn hearing ways".

So why do you even demand that hearing people learn your ways? it's the same as you now telling ME to learn YOUR ways.

2:
I WAS brought up as a hearing person by not MY OWN choice, but by my parent's choice and by the choice of my DEAF brother who insisted that I should be brought up ORAL or I wil "forget" how to speak. he pushed me away from deaf culture. I grew up believing it was the right choice.

So, even if this is indeed NOT the deaf pple's community fault that I don't know ASL,
it IS very rude, disrespectful, idiotic and illogical of Sweetmind to put me down like she did in regards of my inability to understand everything with HAs. Firts of all, I never claimed I understand with my HAs everything and like hearing person does. Second, I am one of those children she so "protects" form the evil hearies, oralists and audists.

As I said, I never claimed I can hear like a hearie with my HAs - on the contrary, ever since I came here to Alldeaf my position was that a person with significant hearing loss, no matter how well adjusted to live in the hearing world with HAs or CI, will never be the same as a true hearie and will always struggle with hearing disability.

So how dare this Sweetaudioracist, who only see as far as her own nose, to disrespect me like this.

BTW sweetie it is not hearing people's fault either that the deaf people are deaf, nobody stopped you from learnig how to speak, read and write in proper English so why do YOU complain when there is no TTY, interpreters or CC?

DON'T BLAME HEARING PEOPLE COMMUNITY for YOUR problems because their native language is normal ENGLISH, not ASL.


And granted, the deaf community is not reqiured to provide captions, I know that,
but I was only illustrating the point how you pple only care about your own business, nobody else's, you need ASL so get just ASL, who cares about those who can't hear AND CAN'T SIGN for whathever reason- to hell with them!

so I used lack of captions in Wann's videos just as an example to illustrate my point to your reply about "you should know ASL".
Well it is debatable - SHOULD I? beacuse YOU think so?
what is CC for?
for whenever YOU DEAF think is needed?
I don't have rights to have ALSO CC, since I AM hearing impaired? doesn't matter what video?

Also don't forget Gnu sweetie that you are "special" in other ways and just because for you ASL, CC and the voice it too much at once, does not mean it is for everyone else.

Fuzzy

 

[Cloggy]

That's what you get for being an oralist.

Seriously, this is one reason I promote ASL.

Captions/subtitles would just ruin it for me. So does having the sound on when watching these.... I like the ASL without the sound.

Try this one:

That's what you get for being deaf.

Seriously, this is one reason I like CI.

Captions/subtitles would just ruin it for me. So does not having the sound on when watching this.... I like the speech with the sound

 

[gnulinuxman]

Fuzzy, Cloggy: I'M HEARING! Sweetmind's well-aware that I am hearing. However, we are still friends anyway.

 

[Cloggy]

Fuzzy, Cloggy: I'M HEARING! Sweetmind's well-aware that I am hearing. However, we are still friends anyway.

I know... no need to shout. You made that perfectly clear.
I just fed you the line that you fed to someone else. "That's what you get for being an oralist."

What's the matter... lost your sense of humor...

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Fuzzy, Cloggy: I'M HEARING! Sweetmind's well-aware that I am hearing. However, we are still friends anyway.

Look Gnu you are not fooling me anymore- when you feel like defending from the deaf point of view, you act like deaf. When you are losing on this point, you yell "I'M HEARING" !!

TOOO BAD !!!!!!!!


When you reply from the deaf standpoint, you will be replied accordingly! so stop manipulating! and thus confusing!!!
besides, my reply was directed at Sweetmind anyway.

Fuzzy

 

[Mookie]

Try this one:

That's what you get for being deaf.

Seriously, this is one reason I like CI.

Captions/subtitles would just ruin it for me. So does not having the sound on when watching this.... I like the speech with the sound

Are you trying to hurt Audiofuzzy who prefers a CC? That's not nice...

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Thank you Mookie but no it's not Cloggy it's Sweetmind who is rude to me.

Fuzzy

 

[Cloggy]

Thank you Mookie but no it's not Cloggy it's Sweetmind who is rude to me.

Fuzzy

Yep, I was reacting on GNU's reply to Fuzzy. (See here.)
I thought it was insulting, even with the "smilie" there.

.............Seriously, this is one reason I promote ASL.......

With Robin Williams..... that would be a reason the promote CI.
But I don't do that. I do not say "Too bad that you cannot hear because now you miss out on Robin Williams."
In effect, that's what GNU said to Fuzzy.

 

[gnulinuxman]

:topic: This thread is about an ASL comedian who's a hearing CODA, not about cochlear implants.

 

[gnulinuxman]

Look Gnu you are not fooling me anymore- when you feel like defending from the deaf point of view, you act like deaf. When you are losing on this point, you yell "I'M HEARING" !!

TOOO BAD !!!!!!!!


When you reply from the deaf standpoint, you will be replied accordingly! so stop manipulating! and thus confusing!!!
besides, my reply was directed at Sweetmind anyway.

Fuzzy

I'm not arguing that hearing is better than deafness or that deafness is better than hearing. Neither group is "better" than the other. Sure, individuals vary, but in the big picture, both groups are very capable of great things.

I know this is :topic: but I must post this....

I hope one day to see a world where deaf and hearing people respected each other the way they are or want to be. Right now, here's the way I see it:

• Older deaf people who grew up in oralist schools are afraid that deaf kids will have to go through the torture that they did when growing up in a pure oralist environment.
• Same as above with those who continue to have abusive pure-oral childhoods.
• Late-deafened people tend to miss the hearing world because they lived in it their whole lives. Not realizing it half the time, they brag a lot about the hearing world and often can't imagine why a deaf person would want to "deprive themselves of sound" or something like that.
• Culturally Deaf people see this as very rude, and, to them, it looks like these late-deafened people don't like who they are.
• Late-deafened people then wonder why culturally Deaf people don't accept them.
• Culturally Deaf people are amazed that these late-deafened people still don't get it.
• Hearing people are generally unaware of deafness and get a lot of wrong information about things like Deaf Culture, signing, lipreading, oralism, cochlear implants, etc. mainly because they haven't had any deaf friends.
• Some hearing people are genuinely stupid and disrespectful, and others think they know that hearing is right and deafness is wrong and pitiful, but most just don't know.
• Late-deafened people tend to wonder why hearing people like me have so many culturally Deaf friends, and then hate us because they don't understand where we accepted hearing people actually stand.
• Hearing people and late-deafened people think the "loud" Deaf Power minority of the culture is what everybody there feels like and so are stereotyping the whole culture because of them.
• Deaf Culture is about respect and rights. However, it is viewed as being purely signing by those who are not accepted by the Culture, even though I have yet to meet a culturally Deaf person who thinks speech is useless. The Deaf Culture really has more of an "At least sign with your deaf child" attitude than an "Oral speech is useless and evil!" attitude.
• Some oral deaf people come into the culture saying "I don't need to sign! Why should I learn to sign?" attitude, and then wonder why they are rejected. Heather Whitestone-McCallum is one famous person who had an oralist attitude similar to this.
• The CI is viewed as an attempt to fix deafness by some culturally Deaf people, but most see that a lot of users of the CI brag about being able to hear and some have an "I'm better than you because you don't use a CI!" attitude, with or without realizing it.
• Some interpreters are in the Deaf Culture because they want money. However, hearing people often see them as experts on deaf people and get wrong ideas from the manipulative ones (the ones who are in it for the money and power over deaf people).
• Some Deaf people who grew up culturally Deaf are unwilling to understand why the ones who grew up orally are afraid of oralism's negative points. They come across as "I'm right; you're wrong; so buzz off!" because they don't know what it's like to go through oralist or pure-oral education and can't (or won't) imagine any downside. It's pretty rare, but it happens. The main motivation for this attitude seems to be jealousy. (Example: Fragmenter)
• "Perfect parent syndrome" is my name for the refusal by a shocking number of parents to believe any parent could be abusive and/or selfish. I see this here a lot.

There you have it--every angle of the situation. Please read this. I know I had to generalize here a bit, and I know not everyone in those groups is the same.

Many does not mean most, and some doesn't mean most either.

Please REALLY think about this.

 

[Interpretrator]

There you have it--every angle of the situation.

Guess the American Annals of the Deaf and the Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education can shut their doors now.

 

[Sweetmind]

Thank you Mookie but no it's not Cloggy it's Sweetmind who is rude to me.

Fuzzy

Mookie


Are you trying to hurt Audiofuzzy who prefers a CC? That's not nice...

Have you read what fuzzy said it all along in Evidence of being deaf with HA? if not then Fuzzy twisted around and put it into my mouth that I have not said a rude comment to her.. She jumped to conclusion as usual.


Thats what I exactly said in my topic.....

Ok, Now Im confused...I have read that you said that u wear two hearing aids, are an Oral speaker, and dont sign. You have also said that you have No plm communicating with Hearing people,and associate with the hearing world only. Now you also said you dont know/understand ASL and cannot hear with two HAs from the computer that has lo/hi volumes, and NOW English is your second language I m too confused by everything that you said.. What is your First Language if it is not English or ASL?

What do you mean u have an excuse that English is your second langauge??
I assumed knowing English would help you with grammar whether spoken or written.

I am not being rude by this post about you (Fuzzy)...I just had to point this out. You jumped to conclusions...that is your issue, not mine.

Closed caption doesnt work with ASL movies...because Closed caption is English. Its ruins the image of ASL. It ruins the true language of plays in video. There is a difference between English and ASL. Heearing people CODA know the difference. That is the purpose for it. If you really want to understand you should hire an oral speaking interpreter, dont try to change ASL thats the way it is.

You chose not to learn ASL which is fine with me but however you have no right to place your shoes into it after all you dont know nothing about ASL itself from the start. Thats what I dont appreciate with audism people who thinks they know it all.

Thats what it s all about Deaf cultures and our Deaf spirits.

Many thanks!
Sweetmind

 

[Boult]

Guess the American Annals of the Deaf and the Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education can shut their doors now.

curious why? just wondering because of what gnu listed?

 

[Sweetmind]

Mookie Read this!!! I have said it all along in my topic.


ismi 's

Think of it not as captions (a transliteration of the dialogue) but as subtitles (translation). Many foreign movies and TV shows have made it here in the US, and lots of hearing people consider subbed movies (i.e., original language audio, with English subtitles) to be far superior to dubbed movies (with audio re-recorded in English). Don't want to watch the subtitles? Just turn 'em off. Or heck, if it's already voice interpreted, why not caption the interpreter?

Now, whether or not we have the right to insist that videos like Wann's be subtitled or captioned is debatable. But I think it's pretty clear that it's not impossible to have well-done subtitles on a video like this.

Sweetmind 's

So therefore you have no respect for ASL that shows something that people need to realize that they should learn ASL since it s a real language. Why bother to spend money on Closed captions for ASL after all people need to learn. It is possible for them to learn if they have a postive attitude about it. The reason why we dont want to have CC is because people need to learn how to read their body language and facial expressions..it needs to be recognized that this is a part of our language.

We have the reason to have closed captions for Deaf or hearing loss that they couldnt understand it that will not make us capable to hear with any devices while you can if you want to. If not then dont ask me for CC. Thanks!.

There are NO excuses for not learning ASL that is your issue not ours. Also it s good for them to practice with their receptively eyes.

Thank you!
Sweetmind

 

[Interpretrator]

curious why? just wondering because of what gnu listed?

I was just being sarcastic.

 

[Boult]

I was just being sarcastic.

That's what I thought

 

[Audiofuzzy]

I do not expected Wann's video to be translanted word in word. I know it can be impossible. Either translate after interpreter (how does HE gets it?) , or work harder to get the CC as reasonable and close as possible.

BTW the same way apply BOTH ways - since ASL is so different how's that possible to translate spoken text into ASL ? it will lose it's momentum!

ASL is not rocket science language! it can be translated!

every language have different grammar and it's own idioms that are impossible to translate word to word. No translation -dubbing or subbing- is word for word, hardly ever.

Translation is not just a mechanical job but it requires certain skills, a gift for it, to bo done well. One must take under consideration local langauge's characteristic and 'atmosphere' to be able to translate just so the foreign viewer will get the climate of what is being said. there is many factors involved in good translation. Bottom line - it can be done.

Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Fuzzy twisted around and put it into my mouth that I have not said a rude comment to her..

I twisted nothing. You were trying to belittle and ridicule me here:

PS: And whats more I have my computer with lo/hi volume here, and visual movies that comes with voices. ummpphhh! You cannot hear with two hearing aids. I m lost!!
and here:
Wow! I thought two hearing aids helps you a lot but it is not.

maybe if you skipped your ummphh and changed the tone when you are talking to me it wouldn't be so rude.

Ok, Now Im confused...I have read that you said that u wear two hearing aids, are an Oral speaker, and dont sign.

YES, and my speech is not perfect.

You have also said that you have No plm communicating with Hearing people,and associate with the hearing world only.

I couldn't have said it in this context.
I could have said I have most times no prbm communicating orally with hearing pple and I can always communicate well by writting with anyone.
In my native language- POLISH- I have almost no problems if I can see people faces and they are not far away- I can even talk on the phone providing the speech is fairly clear. Most pple have clear enough. My own family I know so well I can understand single words from other room. Polish pple usually have no plm understanding me, it's worse with English.
Of course sometimes things happen when I need some help. But on the whole I managed on my own most of my life.
But that doesn't mean I can hear and understand everything and always. And w/o my HAs I hear nothing. I'm deaf as a tree stump. So they do make huge difference.
(curiously, w/o HAs if anyone is speaking directly into my ear not even too loud I can understand the same as with HAs - in polish though, I didn't check in english)

Now you also said you dont know/understand ASL

No, I only know a few simple signs and can understand some visual expressions like grrrr (mad) or horns and milking cow (milk) this type etc.

and cannot hear with two HAs from the computer that has lo/hi volumes,

yes I CAN hear (depending on volume) but that does not mean I understand what I hear. If there were subtitles I could even match the words to the sounds.

and NOW English is your second language I m too confused by everything that you said.. What is your First Language if it is not English or ASL?

my first language is Polish

What do you mean u have an excuse that English is your second langauge??
I assumed knowing English would help you with grammar whether spoken or written.

well, I never went to any English language school I learned it myself from talking to pple and reading a lot. It does not help with grammar because nobody and nothing teaches you the rules of grammar this way. It's just my instinct that directs my writing.
At least I don't do spelling mistakes if I do it's a typo.
my Polish on the other hand is perfect.

I am not being rude by this post about you (Fuzzy)...

If it wasn't rude I would not get so upset.

Closed caption doesnt work with ASL movies...because Closed caption is English. Its ruins the image of ASL. It ruins the true language of plays in video. There is a difference between English and ASL. Heearing people CODA know the difference. That is the purpose for it. If you really want to understand you should hire an oral speaking interpreter, dont try to change ASL thats the way it is.

please read my earlier post. caption what oral speaking interpreter says.

You chose not to learn ASL which is fine with me but however you have no right to place your shoes into it after all you dont know nothing about ASL itself from the start. Thats what I dont appreciate with audism people who thinks they know it all.

Just because I personally don't know ASL does not mean I don't know what it is. You can research about it, you can ask questions and it was explained to me about ASL having it's own grammar and why it's diffrent from regular English.

And here again you are implying I am an audist and thus insulting me- yet again.


Fuzzy

 

[Mookie]

Guess the American Annals of the Deaf and the Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education can shut their doors now.

Are you willing to retake college courses to study in Cued-Speech for CI students after losing your ASL terp job?