Abortion argument leads to murder

[jillio]

the correct title should be "Domestic Violence Leads to Murder." Even if the abortion was illegal, the result will be same. This is the result of domestic violence between couple, not abortion. Hundreds of women and children die per year as the result of abusive relationships - whatever the reason is.


*it's a pix of owl squinting/looking at you with suspicious stare, caption "I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE"

Exactly.

 

[CJB]

That would be SOME guys. And if he didn't murder her over an abortion argument, he would have eventually found another reason to murder her. Thank God he isn't becoming a parent. He no doubt would have abused his child all their life as well.

This is just an illustration of the horrid results of domestic violence. Don't get sidetracked by making it about abortion.:roll:

 

[jillio]

Thank you. Attempting to make it something it isn't just minimizes this woman's death and the death of the fetus. She was a victim of domestic violence, and we can be certain this wasn't the first instance of violence she experienced. It escalates to murder, it doesn't begin with murder. If there is any message we should take away from this it is to encourgage women (and men) who are in abusive relationships to leave after the first instance of violence. Do not stick around until it leads to murder.

 

[Jiro]

QFT stands for Quoted For Truth

 

[sallylou]

Jiro, I'll take it even one step further. The title should be "Man murders woman." The context in which the murder occurred is irrelevant. The term "domestic" makes is seem somehow more palatable, like it was a family matter in which no one shouild intervene. Murder is murder.

In case you haven't noticed, women die at the hands of men routinely. Why not work to help stop the slaughter of the living? These women don't deserve to die.

 

[dreama]

I didn't change the title. The title is because the woman was murdered after she refused to abort the baby so that should be told about.

Nobody says the reasons for a murder are irevelant if it was for any other reason, so why should it be any differant this time. Or do you simply not want to know the truth.

 

[dreama]

Thank you. Attempting to make it something it isn't just minimizes this woman's death .

Which is what you are doing right now.

If I got pregnant and then murdered when I refused to abort the baby I would want the whole world to know about that.
Whatever the reason for a murder, that is part of it and to deny that part and pretend it's not there is definately minimising the death.

 

[Jiro]

Jiro, I'll take it even one step further. The title should be "Man murders woman." The context in which the murder occurred is irrelevant. The term "domestic" makes is seem somehow more palatable, like it was a family matter in which no one shouild intervene. Murder is murder.

In case you haven't noticed, women die at the hands of men routinely.

I think the context is pretty important because this is not some generic everyday murder crime like robbery. This is a very specific case that affects millions of couples in America - the Domestic Violence. I think Florida did a very good job enacting a zero tolerance approach to Domestic Violence issue - no matter how minor the incident is.

I had a feeling that my estimation of statistic was understated. I just looked it up. There are estimate of over 1,100 women and over 1,700 children are killed per year as the result of abusive relationship and over a million women per year who are physically-assaulted.

Oprah did a show about this. I've never saw it but she spoke harshly at Chris Brown (the one who beat up Rihanna) about it.

Why not work to help stop the slaughter of the living? These women don't deserve to die.

while I cannot be a cop, the best I can do is to teach my future sons to not raise hand at women and to be aware of it. It's a minuscule effort compared to what Jillio and you are doing for battered women.

 

[CJB]

I didn't change the title. The title is because the woman was murdered after she refused to abort the baby so that should be told about.

Nobody says the reasons for a murder are irevelant if it was for any other reason, so why should it be any differant this time. Or do you simply not want to know the truth.

Sure, maybe in this case the abortion argument led to the murder. But you can't assume a causal relationship. It's not like most murders are a result of abortion arguments. The title tries to get the reader to think that abortion in and of itself leads to murder, which is simply misleading. It's the argument and the abuse that leads to the murder.

 

[dreama]

I think the context is pretty important because this is not some generic everyday murder crime like robbery. This is a very specific case that affects millions of couples in America - the Domestic Violence. I think Florida did a very good job enacting a zero tolerance approach to Domestic Violence issue - no matter how minor the incident is.

I had a feeling that my estimation of statistic was understated. I just looked it up. There are estimate of over 1,100 women and over 1,700 children are killed per year as the result of abusive relationship and over a million women per year who are physically-assaulted.
.

Yes, I agree with you there.

I was almost killed once. I argued with someone because I didn't like the way she was treating her dog. They also didn't believe I was deafblind. If I had been murdered then I would have wanted people to know about these details.

It would be wrong not to include everything when someone is murdered. These things matter, and in this case the reason was because the woman refused to abort the man's baby.

It would be nice if for once people had said how sad the woman's death was without getting all offensive because the cause of the argument was also mentioned.

 

[sallylou]

This man was clearly an abuser. He didn't just wake up one day and decide to kill his girlfriend because she was pregnant. The profile of an abusive man is typical. The end result of a continued relationship with an abusive man is violence and often death. This poor woman just didn't get out in time. I watched my own father abuse my mother and I was abused as a child. He had a million of reasons to abuse women. It could be as simple as he didn't like the way that she looked at him when he said something. That's how abusive men are.

I'm an attorney and I try to help women escape abusive men by telling them how to gather evidence for a protective order. The problem is that, by the time I identify the women is being abused, she is too psychologically damaged and terrorized to gather evidence. I tell women to access a women's shelter on a library computer because accessing the website at home could literally cost them their lives. The women's shelter helps the women create an escape plan like a fugitive. The most dangerous time for an abused woman is when she attempts to leave. If a woman is lucky enough to find a space at a women's shelter, she can get a referral to an attorney.

I don't appreciate your holier-than-thou attitude about abused women--just using them to make some cheap shot at abortion.

 

[Jiro]

Which is what you are doing right now.

If I got pregnant and then murdered when I refused to abort the baby I would want the whole world to know about that.
Whatever the reason for a murder, that is part of it and to deny that part and pretend it's not there is definately minimising the death.

you're talking about a very small picture. Look at the big picture - the DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. It's a serious issue. Women gets killed in abusive relationship REGARDLESS of reason. That's a very important thing to know. Like I said - this poor pregnant woman will get killed by her boyfriend anyway EVEN if the abortion was illegal. That's why your abortion argument is weak.

Abortion is not the main spotlight in here. It's the domestic violence against women.

 

[dreama]

I don't appreciate your holier-than-thou attitude about abused women--just using them to make some cheap shot at abortion.

I don't apreciate you making that assumsion of me or my believe.

I have been there myself and if I was in the woman's shoes, I would definately want the whole world to know that I had died definding my baby.

The title doesn't trivialise it. It's people getting all offended about the title that is trivialising it because there is some sort of assumsion that Pro life: wholier then thou
Pro abortion: rational human being.
This murder clearly illustrates this is not always the case and you can't stand that.

And no I don't trivialise any murders wether they happen at birth, after birth or even before.

EVERY MURDER IS WRONG!

 

[Jiro]

This man was clearly an abuser. He didn't just wake up one day and decide to kill his girlfriend because she was pregnant. The profile of an abusive man is typical. The end result of a continued relationship with an abusive man is violence and often death. This poor woman just didn't get out in time. I watched my own father abuse my mother and I was abused as a child. He had a million of reasons to abuse women. It could be as simple as he didn't like the way that she looked at him when he said something. That's how abusive men are.

I'm an attorney and I try to help women escape abusive men by telling them how to gather evidence for a protective order. The problem is that, by the time I identify the women is being abused, she is too psychologically damaged and terrorized to gather evidence. I tell women to access a women's shelter on a library computer because accessing the website at home could literally cost them their lives. The women's shelter helps the women create an escape plan like a fugitive. The most dangerous time for an abused woman is when she attempts to leave. If a woman is lucky enough to find a space at a women's shelter, she can get a referral to an attorney.

I don't appreciate your holier-than-thou attitude about abused women--just using them to make some cheap shot at abortion.

I'm very aware of how bureaucratic the system can be and how VERY slow it is to get the legal assistance to battered women they desperately need. Florida is doing a good job with this type of situation. I hope rest of other states follow it.

 

[Jiro]

Yes, I agree with you there.

I was almost killed once. I argued with someone because I didn't like the way she was treating her dog. They also didn't believe I was deafblind. If I had been murdered then I would have wanted people to know about these details.

It would be wrong not to include everything when someone is murdered. These things matter, and in this case the reason was because the woman refused to abort the man's baby.

It would be nice if for once people had said how sad the woman's death was without getting all offensive because the cause of the argument was also mentioned.

yes details are fine but the bigger picture is: nobody should lay a hand on anybody - regardless of any reason. Violence is wrong and unlawful.

 

[KarissaMann05]

That's a shame. I have no words to express what I am thinking.

I second that. I don't know what else to say but it's sad story. . .

 

[Babyblue]

Sounds like the guy was a control freak.. He would have killed her in any other situation that did not go his way. It is not just about her refusing to get an abortion. It is about HIM not getting his way... He was there to SHOW her... by first shooting her in the stomach.... Then killing her. Shooting her in the back of the head. Good grief!!!

This is not an abortion situation by far... it is about the suspect shooting her multiple times...because he did not get his way...

What a freaking control freak!

 

[jillio]

I didn't change the title. The title is because the woman was murdered after she refused to abort the baby so that should be told about.

Nobody says the reasons for a murder are irevelant if it was for any other reason, so why should it be any differant this time. Or do you simply not want to know the truth.

The man was a violent abuser. He would have murdered her for another reason, if not this. This is just the most convenient excuse he could come up with. I deal with survivors of domestic violence on a daily basis. I even co-facilitate a group for the perpetrators. This had virtually nothing to do with abortion. It had everything to do with the imposition of violence on this woman.

This woman was 8 months pregnant at the time of her murder.That is 5 months past the time when an elective abortion could be performed, and no doubt 6-7 months past the time when she told him she was pregnant. Obviously, the discussion regarding abortion was long in the past. So to say that was his reason for murdering her is absurd. If he were going to murder her because he was angry over her refusal, he would have done so several months prior.

No, this is, quite simply, a violent man who believed he had ownership of this woman and the child she carried. Because he felt that he was given that ownership, and because he felt the need to exert power over her, he murdered her. Period.

You do an extreme disservice to those who have survived violent relationships by attempting to minimize the actual reason this woman was murdered. You are giving her murderer a ready made excuse to justify his behavior. That is shameful.

 

[jillio]

This man was clearly an abuser. He didn't just wake up one day and decide to kill his girlfriend because she was pregnant. The profile of an abusive man is typical. The end result of a continued relationship with an abusive man is violence and often death. This poor woman just didn't get out in time. I watched my own father abuse my mother and I was abused as a child. He had a million of reasons to abuse women. It could be as simple as he didn't like the way that she looked at him when he said something. That's how abusive men are.

I'm an attorney and I try to help women escape abusive men by telling them how to gather evidence for a protective order. The problem is that, by the time I identify the women is being abused, she is too psychologically damaged and terrorized to gather evidence. I tell women to access a women's shelter on a library computer because accessing the website at home could literally cost them their lives. The women's shelter helps the women create an escape plan like a fugitive. The most dangerous time for an abused woman is when she attempts to leave. If a woman is lucky enough to find a space at a women's shelter, she can get a referral to an attorney.

I don't appreciate your holier-than-thou attitude about abused women--just using them to make some cheap shot at abortion.

We work toward the same goal. You assist the survivors by helping them with the legal aspect, I assist the survivors by helping them with the psychological aspects. I'm sure you will agree that contact with these women is heartbreaking. These women need their stories told if we are ever to have an impact on breaking the cycle. But they need their story told for what it is...violence against women. They don't need it told with an intentional slant designed to further a personal and political agenda.

 

[Babyblue]

The man was a violent abuser. He would have murdered her for another reason, if not this. This is just the most convenient excuse he could come up with. I deal with survivors of domestic violence on a daily basis. I even co-facilitate a group for the perpetrators. This had virtually nothing to do with abortion. It had everything to do with the imposition of violence on this woman.

This woman was 8 months pregnant at the time of her murder.That is 5 months past the time when an elective abortion could be performed, and no doubt 6-7 months past the time when she told him she was pregnant. Obviously, the discussion regarding abortion was long in the past. So to say that was his reason for murdering her is absurd. If he were going to murder her because he was angry over her refusal, he would have done so several months prior.

No, this is, quite simply, a violent man who believed he had ownership of this woman and the child she carried. Because he felt that he was given that ownership, and because he felt the need to exert power over her, he murdered her. Period.

You do an extreme disservice to those who have survived violent relationships by attempting to minimize the actual reason this woman was murdered. You are giving her murderer a ready made excuse to justify his behavior. That is shameful.

Yup....

The guy would have killed her in any other situation, that did not go his way.