A note about bigotry

[Etoile]

Yes, ASL is a language. SEE is not a language, it is a mode of English. I don't think that's the issue though.

The issue is calling SEE "crap" which is extremely disrespectful to those who use it.

 

[hootster]

People need to realize that SEE and PSE is not language just a communication mode. ASL is a true language. Sorry Thats the answer here!

I never said that SEE was a real language. I do know that it is just an alternative communication mode for English. I m not denying that ASL is a real language either. However, it bothers me when people say that my communcation method is "crap." It is STILL a form of communication that many deaf people like me use whether you agree with it or not. Like etoile said in the post above mine, it is disrespectful to people who use that method.

 

[Ariakkas]

not that i agree with this nutjob....but i find it odd that you use SEE as your primary method of communication.

are you talking FULL english...as in suffix signs and abbreviated signs for each word? or are you talking about PSE/CASE where you use mostly ASL signs in an english word order, without suffixes?

when i sign full SEE...its incredibly cumbersome and takes a really long time to say whatever i want to say..when i could have said the same thing in 1 or 2 ASL signs.

just curious is all

 

[Sweetmind]

The issue is calling SEE "crap" which is extremely disrespectful to those who use it.

Who give a damn? Since you have no respect our true language that we have the rights to freedom. Thank you!

 

[hootster]

not that i agree with this nutjob....but i find it odd that you use SEE as your primary method of communication.

are you talking FULL english...as in suffix signs and abbreviated signs for each word? or are you talking about PSE/CASE where you use mostly ASL signs in an english word order, without suffixes?

when i sign full SEE...its incredibly cumbersome and takes a really long time to say whatever i want to say..when i could have said the same thing in 1 or 2 ASL signs.

just curious is all

Yes, I sign full English.

The reason I use SEE as a primary form of communication is cuz I grew up with it. Even as I get older, I still prefer the SEE method.

I have similar feelings about ASL as u do about SEE. Although ASL doesnt take as long to sign as SEE, I get confused with the word arrangments. Also, I dont like the fact that ASL discourages people from using their voice/lips when signing. I m just one of those types that believes in enforcing proper word arrangement when signing alongside with using your voice.

Although I believe in those things, I am really indifferent about people using ASL instead of SEE. I really think that it is just personal preference for everyone. In my case, I prefer SEE just like you prefer ASL.

 

[hootster]

Who give a damn? Since you have no respect our true language that we have the rights to freedom. Thank you!

LOL, ok. When did anyone show disrespect for ASL? Nobody said that deaf people shouldnt sign ASL or that ASL is crap. I EVEN AGREED that ASL was a REAL language unlike SEE. Check my previous posts.

Why do ALL deaf people have to sign ASL? Please tell me WHY other than for the sake of deaf culture.

 

[Etoile]

Who give a damn? Since you have no respect our true language that we have the rights to freedom. Thank you!

Wow...you actually think it is okay to be mean to people? Why can't we have respect for each other. Don't forget I am an ASL/English interpreter, so I most certainly do respect ASL as the visual language to which Deaf people are entitled. But you literally just said it is okay to be mean to people and that is just insane.

 

[Sweetmind]

Wow...you actually think it is okay to be mean to people? Why can't we have respect for each other. Don't forget I am an ASL/English interpreter, so I most certainly do respect ASL as the visual language to which Deaf people are entitled. But you literally just said it is okay to be mean to people and that is just insane.

I have seen a lot of mean to d/Deaf children that they must speak and hear in their home because of THIS IS A HEARING WORLD which is full of it.

People are being mean for not having two way streets after all we learn how to speak and hear with those stupid devices because Hearing said so. hearing said so. You dont realized there are some hearing parents who are very cruel to those d/Deaf children out there that YOU DONT EVEN CARE about those d/Deaf chidren s abusive by their audist attitude people.

Why cant we have ASL in our classroom yet? It s only few schools that involved ASL. Why does it taking so long to get thru people s head about ASL itself?

YOu have not accept yourself completely before u can accept yourself as a deaf person with our hands to communicate with both sides.. I am not gonna to do all that dirty work while they refused or disrespect our needs.

NO ONE respect for what Laurent Clerc did make the difference for d/Deaf children with their beautifully writtten in the past before oralism took over that s where we got screwed up all those years. It s a proven.

SEE is related to a SPOKEN ENGLISH that you are pushing d/Deaf children too far. Thats where many deafies lost the importance of a true language that is ASL. SEE is not coming from a deaf person but HEARING S RULE is a must.

THATS A CRUEL for you people forced us to use our deaf voices and those devices after all the problem has not solved YET.

That s cruel for anybody to split every d/Deaf children up and keep them away from d/Deaf children s hands to communciate with.. What does that supposed to be?

Where are all those d/Deaf chlidren with secondary disabilities? They are lonely out there with no d/Deaf childrens friends. For god s s sake!!!!

Because OF ORALISM s RULES RULES RULES only.. Shovel it up their arses and take it with them. IT STILL happens in this society. MIND YOU!

Wow...you actually think it is okay to be mean to d/Deaf children who is not a hearing person or funcationally hearing as well, too.

Thank you!
Sweetmind

 

[Etoile]

I have seen a lot of mean to d/Deaf children that they must speak and hear in their home because of THIS IS A HEARING WORLD which is full of it.

People are being mean for not having two way streets after all we learn how to speak and hear with those stupid devices because Hearing said so. hearing said so. You dont realized there are some hearing parents who are very cruel to those d/Deaf children out there that YOU DONT EVEN CARE about those d/Deaf chidren s abusive by their audist attitude people.

Why cant we have ASL in our classroom yet? It s only few schools that involved ASL. Why does it taking so long to get thru people s head about ASL itself?

YOu have not accept yourself completely before u can accept yourself as a deaf person with our hands to communicate with both sides.. I am not gonna to do all that dirty work while they refused or disrespect our needs.

NO ONE respect for what Laurent Clerc did make the difference for d/Deaf children with their beautifully writtten in the past before oralism took over that s where we got screwed up all those years. It s a proven.

SEE is related to a SPOKEN ENGLISH that you are pushing d/Deaf children too far. Thats where many deafies lost the importance of a true language that is ASL. SEE is not coming from a deaf person but HEARING S RULE is a must.

THATS A CRUEL for you people forced us to use our deaf voices and those devices after all the problem has not solved YET.

That s cruel for anybody to split every d/Deaf children up and keep them away from d/Deaf children s hands to communciate with.. What does that supposed to be?

Where are all those d/Deaf chlidren with secondary disabilities? They are lonely out there with no d/Deaf childrens friends. For god s s sake!!!!

Because OF ORALISM s RULES RULES RULES only.. Shove up their arses and take it with them. IT STILL happens in this society. MIND YOU!

Wow...you actually think it is okay to be mean to people, too.

Thank you!
Sweetmind

Why are you attacking me for society's failings?

In my opinion, being mean to an individual is not the same thing as societal injustice.

I guess I am going to leave this conversation. I shouldn't have gotten back into it in the first place. It just makes me sad to be personally attacked for something I didn't do.

 

[Sweetmind]

???? how can i bashing you for it?? i m just taking out the quotes to make the point out of it?

You just dont see what I SAW in my own eyes and HAVE discussed with many d/Deaf people s true experiences.

ONE mother had been abusing a deaf child because she is very very discriminated and treat her like a dog. For god s sake this child is so innocent and had been born deaf all of her childhood. Even she wore HA and speak well but her emotional and mental were scattered all those years.

You took it personally not my issuses.. YOu dont want to hear the whole TRUTH that hurts.

Yeah you walked away and dont want to deal with it that will contiunally have the CHILD ABUSE going on and on in this society.

Thats all to it! Thats cruel and selfish for people to keep our true language away from us from the start.. NO wonder many deafies doent know the truth or understand how importance to have ASL in our childhood.


For God s sake ASL is a true language that fits than having to compare many artitificial language that is not fitted into our Deaf children s needs.

Of course I am pissed off at this society for not having any respect for any d/Deaf children.. Thats their poor excuses to keep d/Deaf children from having the full of knowlege of Deaf History, Deaf Arts, ASL, and many things that relates to many deaf cultures in this society that we should proud of our d/Deaf accomplishment.

Deaf is nothing to be ashamed of me , yourself, ourselves.

IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU As individual.. IT is your choice to take the blamed by you and yourself..

Thank you!
Sweetmind

 

[Etoile]

You took it personally not my issuses.. YOu dont want to hear the whole TRUTH that hurts.

Yeah you walked away and dont want to deal with it that will contiunally have the CHILD ABUSE going on and on in this society.

You are so wrong. Yes, I take it personally, because you are attacking me personally. You are saying that I don't do anything to help deaf children.

Well let me ask you this Sweetmind: WHAT THE HELL DO YOU WANT ME TO DO? Seriously! WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO?

My god, you are acting as if I am abusing deaf children! You think I can change the system! You even said that I don't recognize ASL as the rightful language of deaf people!

I take it personally because you are attacking me personally, which is so completely inappropriate. You don't know me. Why should I put up with this bullshit? Why should I listen to personal attacks and insults? Do you even realize who you are talking to or are you just randomly answering every post without even considering who is on the other side of the computer?

 

[Cheri]

Sweetmind,

I'm sorry but, I disagree with you there when you said that SEE and PSE is not a language just a communication mode. ASL is a true language. Regarding communicating whatever works for each person, Some people would prefer SEE, Some would prefer ASL, Some would prefer both, or all. There is no right or wrong to communicate with each other regardless of the signing system used. There is nothing wrong to learn and practice a method that each person would like to use as to communicate with others.

 

[Sweetmind]

I'm sorry but, I disagree with you there when you said that SEE and PSE is not a language just a communication mode. ASL is a true language. Regarding communicating whatever works for each person, Some people would prefer SEE, Some would prefer ASL, Some would prefer both, or all. There is no right or wrong to communicate with each other regardless of the signing system used. There is nothing wrong to learn and practice a method that each person would like to use as to communicate with others.

I am very sorry you dont know much about the truth in ASL itself.

A MODE COMMUNICATION is totally different from a true language. No wonder many deafies doent sign equally like hearing people s spoken language.. Is that fair for us to deal with all that craps? TOOO GUTTER languages that affects us deafies in many ways that is not solved problem YET, too.

Think twice before you determined to say those words. Smile! No wonder we did not have that many interpreters who knows ASL. Thats explain the whole a lot of whats going on in this society.

I find this is funny for hearing people to take SEE that is easy for them which it s related to a SPOKEN language while we deafies did our best to learn how to speak and listen with those devices that doesnt mean we are fully accommplishment of being hearing or become hearing or functionally hearing. We did it while they dont bother to learn ASL..

UMM!!!! I m not saying all interpreter s faults but however people with audist attitude did not tell the whole truth that they just go along with them and didnt know any better.

Thanks!

Sweetmind

 

[rockdrummer]

Please correct me if I am wrong here. Isn't SEE a means of teaching the deaf proper english in order to enhance their reading and writing skills. And ASL is a means of personal communication. From what I understand of ASL, it is far more efficient for personal communication but doesn't utilize proper english. SEE, uses proper english but would be cumbersome as a means of personal communication. I want my deaf child to learn SEE for obtaining the ability to read and write proper english but I also want him to use ASL as one of his personal communication methods. Is this a bad approach? I welcome any comments.

 

[Cheri]

Sweetmind,

How can you say that I don't know anything about ASL, When I am deaf myself. I do know that American sign language been here for the deaf since generations, ASL are meant for face expression/body moments during a sentence, it's not the same as you speak properly English, I've seen deaf people would skip their proper english when they are using ASL. It's not that it is bad, It's just how they want to shorten the words to make it more clear and faster than to sign every details, not like what you would write on paper with perfect english skills. But, you see not everyone does stick with one routine. They are free to choose which they prefer.

I've had some very good sign language interpreters and bad ones too those who would finger spell everything, I don't like that it's a waste of time.

 

[Cheri]

I want my deaf child to learn SEE for obtaining the ability to read and write proper english but I also want him to use ASL as one of his personal communication methods. Is this a bad approach? I welcome any comments.

No, It's not a bad approach, I think that's good that you want your child to learn both. That's what I do too.

 

[Sweetmind]

Originally Posted by rockdrummer
I want my deaf child to learn SEE for obtaining the ability to read and write proper english but I also want him to use ASL as one of his personal communication methods. Is this a bad approach? I welcome any comments.

My pleasure to share with you after all you have a great attitude and wants to know about it so bad. Here you go:


http://www.raisingdeafkids.org/learning/reading/sign.jsp

http://www.lessontutor.com/eesASL1.html

http://www.lessontutor.com/eesASLPractice.html

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0200808.html

http://www.search.com/search?q=Amer...v=2.10.4.10&channel=1&tag=se.sr-1-.page.102.2 you can check out many things for yourself.

Have a great day!
Sweetmind

 

[Endymion]

Please correct me if I am wrong here. Isn't SEE a means of teaching the deaf proper english in order to enhance their reading and writing skills. And ASL is a means of personal communication. From what I understand of ASL, it is far more efficient for personal communication but doesn't utilize proper english. SEE, uses proper english but would be cumbersome as a means of personal communication. I want my deaf child to learn SEE for obtaining the ability to read and write proper english but I also want him to use ASL as one of his personal communication methods. Is this a bad approach? I welcome any comments.

Rockdrummer, you have an interesting idea! I do not know if SEE and ASL would clash or whether you can import the logic of teaching your child French and English simultaneously.

One thing I thought I'd mention is that while SEE users tend to have a more solid grasp of the English language, they do have something I'll term SEE-glish. Probably one of the most prominent features of SEE-glish is when the deaf person says, "I wanna to go to the store" as opposed to "I wanna go to the store." My suspicion is that SEE-glish is the product of the natural simplification of signing communication -- kinda like contractions in English, where will not becomes won't. But that is only my suspicion.

The distinct advantage, and there are citable peer-reviewed papers on this, is that SEE users have an understanding of many grammatical structures of English. They employ proper usage of articles, for one thing.

Personally, if you're concerned about your child's acquisition of English and do not want to mix SEE with ASL, you can consider Cued English. The late Dr. R. Orin Cornett developed a very simple, easy to learn system that represents verbal patterns in the form of handshapes localized around the mouth. It is said that parents may learn Cued English in a day and mastery follows shortly thereafter. Peer-reviewed scholarly papers also show promising results for Cued English users.

The reason why I suggest looking into Cued English is that you can continue to use ASL without confusing your child (and it also helps you communicate until you're able to master ASL).

Hope that helps!

 

[hootster]

OK, I see a lot of hate for hearing people and non-ASL users from sweetmind. lol.

EVEN hearing people experience social ills. They experience abuses from their parents. They experience bullshit from people. You act like this only happens to deaf people. Newsflash, It happens to HEARING people TOO!

Also, not ALL deaf people go through that kind of things. For example, I didnt. I had a pretty good life other than the occisonal hardship. I m sure others did too. Not all deaf people had parents who were uncaring.

NOt all hearing people are bunches of bitches. I have met alot of caring hearing people in my lifetime. If you havent, it is probably because you shun them or you are looking in the wrong places.

Although I dont care if anyone uses ASL, it is not a good idea to use that as the SOLE way to solve ALL of the problems for all deaf people. It doesnt work for EVERYONE. The problem that some deaf people have with ASL is its lack of proper word arrangement which makes it difficult for them to enforce proper word arrangement when writing. Take a look at your posts and you will see what I mean. Please dont get offended by this. I m not sayin that everyone who signs ASL sucks at writing, but it does make it harder for them to learn proper word arrangement and grammar. This is where SEE comes in for some deaf people.

Yes, I agree with you tha ASL is a real language. Just like English, the language that SEE enforces. Whats wrong with speaking English? Some of us want to be able to speak English so we can be part of the hearing world as well be part of the deaf world. Not all deaf people hate the hearing world and shun it. Not all deaf people want to be isolated in the deaf world either.

It is much easier to get jobs and to get along with people when u know how to interact in the HEARING world.

Yes, I m sorry, but this is the truth. IT IS A HEARING WORLD. Theres nothing u can do to change that. All you can do is try to adapt to the hearing world while retaining your deaf idendity. Its possible to balance the two.

Because we sign SEE, we are ashamed of being deaf? Guess what? You still have to SIGN to use SEE. If we were ashamed of being deaf, we wouldnt sign AT ALL! We would be trying to use our voice as much as we can no matter how much we suck at it. Terrible blanket statement.

As for being part and proud of deaf culture, some deaf people generally avoid it because of the bad press that miliant deaf people like you give. "ASL IS THE ONLY TRUE LANGUAGE!!!! SEE SUCKS!! HEARING PEOPLE SUCK!" Come on. Get real. The best way to go is to be more flexible to the needs of individual deaf people if u want deaf people to be proud of the deaf culture.

"I find this is funny for hearing people to take SEE that is easy for them which it s related to a SPOKEN language"

THAT IS EXACTLY WHY SOME DEAF PEOPLE WANT TO LEARN SEE! See my previous statement about being part of the hearing world.

Jeez, sweetmind, you need to grow up and stop all this blanket hate for hearing people and people who are not "D"eaf or dont sign ASL.

 

[Sweetmind]

Jeez, sweetmind, you need to grow up and stop all this blanket hate for hearing people and people who are not "D"eaf or dont sign ASL.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


Guess what they are spliting us up and ignore our d/Deaf people and Hearing and d/Deaf people s disablities like blind, cancer throat, and many things that works for all of us equally at once. ASL helps us to get equal language that can work with BI BI languages that goes with or with out orally speaking.

Guess what I made more friends with hearing people and have helped them so much as much as I can be very fair and honest for those d/Deaf children with or without HA and CI devices. while they dont give both sides but ONE SIDED only which is totally disaster for those innocent and ignorant parents or people out there that they think we can hear and speak like them. WRONG WRONG for you to say it aloud alone.

You are hearing person and doesnt know everything about our deafness and our struggles in our childhood because of AUDIST ATTITUde forced to think this s world belongs to hearing 's attitude. What makes you think that I dont feel to be part of this fricky hearing world after all they dont have any respect for our ADA/ ASL/ True indentity/ and many other things that we did not have a chance to know the full alive of being deaf or Deaf Role Model s successful. How dare you tell me this kind of attitude as u judge or assumed about me as a Deaf natural person who love hearing friends , families, children, and many others that s who do not give two way streets that has BEEN CONITNUALLY from the past and todays!


ASL made the whole difference and is very different from ENGLISH that doesnt get me exciting to listen with because it doesnt tell us their different voice tones while ASL can show every facial expression / body language that many deafies do not have that.. WHY IS THAT?? because of spoken language they are brainwashing into it only.

You dont know what s it alike to be deaf if u are not deaf yourself? thank you!

It is your issue I DO NOT HATE ANYBODY because they are hearing.. COME ON. and GROW UP yourself For Gods sake!!!!!. They have no respect for us deafies and our needs that comes first.

Many of us at home are NOTHING to talk about since we have the conflict problem with ORALISM S WAY 100 percent.. because it s easier for hearing parent to handle those d/Deaf children without have to learn ASL all along for years and years... It s still happens in todays world. Dont tell me all hearing people learn ASL but some did learn and didnt learn at all.

Quit pinpointing at me only... I have seen alot of whiners here about Hear and Speak I m nt gonna to sit and lie about it.. I m the one who stood up and share the diffrent philosophy from them..



GROW up!!!!! as you think you know everything about us deafies . I am a Deaf mother with or without orally speaking myself if you mind. My hearing children is the only people that they can communicate with me within 30 years in my whole life. It s hard on them because Hearing people couldnt communicate with me s they depends on my children. We deaf parents are the blamed for it which turns out the opposite. They left us NO CHOICES. For GOD S SAKE!!!!!!! Blamed blamed DEAFIES for your barrier of communication because they dont even fricking know how to communicate with me while I tried so hard to communicate with them.. They ignore me as a Deaf Mother which is totally wrong.


What do you expect me happy to deal with this kind of audist attitude people who doesnt have any respect our needs and our rights to freedom with ADA or blamed us for having the barrier of communication alone?? SCOFFS!!!

JEEZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!