some Ddeaf/Hhoh with grammar english problems

Speech: Oversimplification, but most people learn the grammar of their native tongue by listening to speech and mimicking it, then practicing by talking with others.

Those who can't hear, can't mimic, and thus can't practice without special help.

Writing: Another oversimplification is writing is speech represented by visual code. If speech is delayed, then breaking the code of reading is usually delayed, resulting in poor reading skills.

But as Ozzie so wisely pointed out, any of us can overcome poor writing skills by first reading basic books, then expanding to ever advanced content. As with anything, the more we practice, the better we get.

Pay careful attention to the spelling, punctuation, and grammar of what you read, then practice, practice, practice writing in the same manner.

It's not easy for those who are deprived of the first steps by deaness, but those determined to read and write well can do so.
 
Why do you think that the grammatical structure of a spoken language would be difficult for someone who can't hear that spoken language?
It's NOT a spoken language vs. visual language thing. Rather research has indicated that dhh kids make the same exact errors as people who are English as a Second Language. Also, it might be b/c a lot of dhh people have a disreprency between their verbal and nonverbal IQ scores.
 
Writing: Another oversimplification is writing is speech represented by visual code. If speech is delayed, then breaking the code of reading is usually delayed, resulting in poor reading skills.

This is very true. I still remember the time when I didn't know what punctuation was supposed to do... I used to make unnecessary marks all the time, like decoration, then I went through a phase of not using it at all. I also wrote random things and words, and did not have a clue what they meant, I guess I thought that was how it was supposed to be or something...

But now, writing -is- my main form of 'speech'.
 
me too, got some bloody difficult books to read too, but i dont throw it away until the time is right (happened alot that i 'finally matured enough' in the head to read it, as always EVERYDAY i THINK about things, sometimes id think about things a a 1,000 times before i'd decide to do it, or read about it.....
 
It's NOT a spoken language vs. visual language thing. Rather research has indicated that dhh kids make the same exact errors as people who are English as a Second Language. Also, it might be b/c a lot of dhh people have a disreprency between their verbal and nonverbal IQ scores.

good points deafdyke, as usual you always good to bring up pithy research or hypothetical comments :)
 
Well, unfortunately there are a lot of people like that.
One, thing I was taught is this:
Just because someone 'talks' with an accent, that does not mean they -think- with one. You could be an incredibly intelligent person and not write English well, just like anyone else who has not learned it as well as others.

There are many -highly intelligent- people who do not speak or write English well, because it is not their language. Scientists, doctors, physicists... do if someone accuses you of being stupid only by the way you write, then they are the one being stupid.

yeah i can relate with that, my handwriting is very shocking, its scribbles - thought i draw with alot of sensitivity (as my drawing art tutors says i attend drawing classes this year to refresh my old interest, go figure handwrite really shitty but draw well) hate to say I dont think my hand writing has improved since i was 10, while, I did write stuff in school but looking back well not as much as I should have so hence probably 'were let off' somehow as teachers praised and focused on my maths ( i was good back then now forgotten it all) computer programming was another like way back in 1985-1986 i was like the third top student in entire school on computer science , only the teachers didnt interact with me PROPERLY like (their subtle disablist attitudes masked their 'oh Grum can't do that, doesnt understand - maybe one day - sort of attitude - this sort of lack of insight teachers have on with deaf student in the present and in the past, does alot of damage. It is idiotic for teachers to assume its ok to give in and leave it.

Back to the point of handwriting (sorry for being so convoluted, maybe that's my thought-speech dialougne interferring the writing! - the very topic we're discussing right now) the thing about my hand writings is not uniform, it doesnt follow the imaginary lines for the mid-point of each letters (capitals and lower caps, and joining lines in writing as opposed to printing) is uneven though sometimes depending on the handwriting mood (not emotion mood -wierdly enough) the handwriting comes out really good , smooth and flowing leaning to the right side direction then sometime it would (i cant control it) flip over and lean to the left-side while still writing...... or the small loops in the little 'e's become too narrow as its becomes to easily mistaken for an 'i'......

the whole point im saying, ive noticed when ppl see my hand writing, esp strangers or ppl whose dont know me well, in "i cant hear you, let write this down communication tactics employed' then these people judge my intelligence by my handwriting , often the answers i get can be unfavourable.

im not sure if im sticking with this thread topics, but id thought id throw in a comment or two about handwriting along with the grammar problems
my grammer is problematic too, i have to work long and hard to fix, re-read it, and read again at later time/date then re-draft then send off.

like jenni=m i sometimes have trouble to organise my thoughts onto paper..... but when i write i use the computer and do a lot of copy/cut/paste until i get a sentence, paragraph right.....rarely i get a line right out once.... and i think its partly because im deaf, not 'wired' in both biologically and linguisically sense that socialisation/ verbalising communication from really young is something i did not have, i had to be trained in deaf units, and shit, and been verbally slower because of the mainstream oralist method applied on me i was slowly verbalised. I didnt hate it becuase as a child back then i did not know the difference i obliged but all the while bit by bit i slipped behind in class aand the peers outside school. Seem familar?

yeah well i partly think hearing teachers, (and not sure about the present Deaf/deaf teachers - that remain to be seen i know of a teacher aides who 'helps to remind sign language to teachers BUT she doesnt know jack shit about things.....so i kind of am frightened for the kids with this disasterous combination - along with a newly qualifed 'teacher of the deaf whose is hearing -with a 20-25 years teaching experience BUT with NO sign language abilty - ive met her and she is soooooo shyte like an old bag,mean oralist teacher type i cant believe it -anyway) are just lazy when it come to stop analysing the kids, and start FUCKING TEACHING , FORGET catergorising or doing any 'specialist' bullshit. Like i reckon as soon as they stop this erroneous ways of assuming , there would be a lot of difference and wonderous results from the kids could be expected since to less intimidation brought on about from less 'intervention' that interferes with their learning in school. Although some intervention are appropriate but I still think it could be done better and with less over-analysiing.
my 2 cents
 
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Not worry... you re not alone.. I do struggle my English grammar ;)


I m kinda disappoint with my mom long time ago because she is mostly taught and correct my speech than write English and math :mad:

Oh well ..

:grouphug:
 
Hey, don't apologize!

My grammar is good but my style of writing is so simple. It is not creative and I struggle to apply a variety of vocabulary words in my writing. When I read books with big and fancy words, I understand them but I cant transfer those kinds of words into my writing. Like Chase and Jillo...they are very creative with their writing. That level of writing is what I would like to achieve but it has been a struggle for me. I think it is because I did not have full access to language during my younger years and grew up learning language in a rigid style therefore making my style of writing rigid.

My brother's grammar used to be so terrible before he went to Gallaudet University but after graduation, it improved a lot..not perfect so u are not the only one.
 
Your question was rude. Think about it. Why do you think that the grammatical structure of a spoken language would be difficult for someone who can't hear that spoken language?

I don't want to know my answer. I want to know why it is hard for the person who started the thread. I want her to describe how it is for her....
 
Well no one is perfect but it's always a good idea to strive for improvement.

My grammar is good but my spelling is bad and I have a difficult time with both acronyms and abbreviations especially if they're part of the current slang.

I should note here that I can make grammatical mistakes. Sometimes I'll leave the ings out of words like thinking or I'll leave out the ed in other words as in darkened. Others times, I don't always use plurals correctly correctly as in this example: The dog were waiting for me when I arrived at the dog pound. Correct: The dogs were waiting for me when I arrived at the dog pound.

Although I'm good at picking up slang, the catch is that it has to be in a visual form; otherwise odds are good that I won't pick up on the latest slang. Ditto for a lot of idioms - if not all of them.

My strengths in writing is that I seem to have a flair for words and creative writing. My history teacher once told me that my historical essays weren't dry compared to the other student's essays. I also excel in visual imagery but my auditory imagery is markedly devoid or absent.


My weakness are as follows: spelling, acronyms (I had to look up the spelling of this word :P), abbreviations and phonics. Every time I try to write a poem in English, I get bogged down trying to work out the rhythm of my poems. Meters and sonnets are for serious masochists. :P
 
:lol:

Out of curosity, are you saying that there are differences between us and hearies in terms of comprehending reading and grammar? I wish I was very quick-witted or giving out snappy comebacks, so therefore is that what held me back due to lack of understanding during schooling?

I don't see you as not being quick witted. I think the differences would lie in the nuances of native language usage. A hearie has an inborn advantage in acquiring those nuances from birth. Even though a deaf individual may have been able to learn the language, and have a vocabulary equal to that of a native English speaker (hearing), they miss so much of the incidental exposure that is necessary for native use of a language. Like, I am fluent in ASL, but I did not acquire ASL as a native. Therefore, I do not have all the subleties and ability to use ASL as creatively as a native user would. It is the difference between native acquisition and fluency.

I hope I have explained that well. If not, just ask me more questions and I will try again.
 
Thanks Everyone.

To: Jillo,
Some hearing student at college, We felt that some hearing people who are too smart than US (deaf/hoh) because of grammar english. I remembered at college that some hearing people looked at us like we're stupid or dumb. and they don't seem interested in deaf when we're in hearing class.

And I came up to a hearing guy for help but he rejected me and totally ignored me like he doesn't want to be friend with me. (sigh, he's jerk). he rather friend with hearing only and he think he's too smart than me and my other deaf friends. It does hurt my feeling. I let it go and moved on.

So me and my deaf friend changed to class that we finally have english teacher for deaf class only for writing class. However, we are sad that our english teacher is moving to another state next fall. I'm thinking of going to different college.


Being able to use grammar correctly does not have anything to do with being smart. I know many deaf people who have problems with English grammar that are very intelligent and fluid thinkers. They just phrase things differently. But their ability to understand is very high.

That guy was just a judgemental jerk. He isn't worth your time. Of course behavior like that does hurt your feelings, but keep in mind that the problem is with the other person, and not with you.

I would suggest that you go to whatever college is the most willing to accommodate your needs. That is where you will be able to get the best education.

Hang in there and keep working hard. Don't let anyone get in your way. I have faith that you are going to do well.
 
I don't want to know my answer. I want to know why it is hard for the person who started the thread. I want her to describe how it is for her....

Like I said....think about it. If you can think about it on enough of a fuid level to answer your own question of why learning grammar would be difficult for one who has not received incidental exposure to spoken language, you will have the answer as to why it is difficult not just for this particular poster, but for the majority of deaf individuals.
 
You don't need to apologize for your grammar. English grammar is a struggle for many people, deaf and hearing both. I know many hearing people who have horrible grammar.

You hang in there and keep trying. You will improve.

Jillio's right. I'm hearing and have been from birth. I have learning disablities, and I struggle terribly with grammar. I can spell really well, but my grammar needs work. So, you're not alone.

Just do your best. Nobody is going to grade you on your posts. :)
 
Hey, don't apologize!

My grammar is good but my style of writing is so simple. It is not creative and I struggle to apply a variety of vocabulary words in my writing. When I read books with big and fancy words, I understand them but I cant transfer those kinds of words into my writing. Like Chase and Jillo...they are very creative with their writing. That level of writing is what I would like to achieve but it has been a struggle for me. I think it is because I did not have full access to language during my younger years and grew up learning language in a rigid style therefore making my style of writing rigid.

My brother's grammar used to be so terrible before he went to Gallaudet University but after graduation, it improved a lot..not perfect so u are not the only one.

You're not alone, Shel. Neither can I, and I've been hearing from birth. In my situation, it's a combination of factors ranging from a diagnosed learning disablity, to missed time from school when I was a kid due to recouperation from the surgeries I had then.
 
Like I said....think about it. If you can think about it on enough of a fuid level to answer your own question of why learning grammar would be difficult for one who has not received incidental exposure to spoken language, you will have the answer as to why it is difficult not just for this particular poster, but for the majority of deaf individuals.

:gpost: All it takes is a applied common sense.
 
I don't want to know my answer. I want to know why it is hard for the person who started the thread. I want her to describe how it is for her....

I hope for her sake she decides not to answer you. Nobody should be made to feel like a lab rat just so they can appease somebody's curiousity.
 
Hey, don't apologize!

My grammar is good but my style of writing is so simple. It is not creative and I struggle to apply a variety of vocabulary words in my writing. When I read books with big and fancy words, I understand them but I cant transfer those kinds of words into my writing. Like Chase and Jillo...they are very creative with their writing. That level of writing is what I would like to achieve but it has been a struggle for me. I think it is because I did not have full access to language during my younger years and grew up learning language in a rigid style therefore making my style of writing rigid.

:gpost: that's it! you said it better than I could. :)
 
I don't see you as not being quick witted. I think the differences would lie in the nuances of native language usage. A hearie has an inborn advantage in acquiring those nuances from birth. Even though a deaf individual may have been able to learn the language, and have a vocabulary equal to that of a native English speaker (hearing), they miss so much of the incidental exposure that is necessary for native use of a language. Like, I am fluent in ASL, but I did not acquire ASL as a native. Therefore, I do not have all the subleties and ability to use ASL as creatively as a native user would. It is the difference between native acquisition and fluency.

I hope I have explained that well. If not, just ask me more questions and I will try again.

Got it! :)

But why are there some hearies who are not so good in grammar, etc ... they're hearing so why aren't they fluent then? They are in a world of sound and speech so why lacking in that area?
 
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