some Ddeaf/Hhoh with grammar english problems

Ozzie said:
Got it! :)

But why are there some hearies who are not so good in grammar, etc ... they're hearing so why aren't they fluent then? They are in a world of sound and speech so why lacking in that area?
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Lots of reasons. Learning disabilities and lost time in school. Those are two of the reasons I struggle with grammar. I was diagnosed with learning disabilities when I was nine years old. As a result, my writing lacks flair. I also spent a good deal of time in the hospital or recovering at home from surgery. I had tutors, but I still missed out on a heck of a lot. Another reason for me, was also due to the fact that I was not mainstreamed until third grade, and I lacked the instruction kids usually get the first three years of school. I missed out on alot of early instruction and ended up having to play catch-up.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
I hope for her sake she decides not to answer you. Nobody should be made to feel like a lab rat just so they can appease somebody's curiousity.
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I highly doubt that is the reason.

Just FYI:
It helps to know what the exact problem is when trying to help someone.

Edited to clarify:
"I can't write well" is not enough. It would be helpful to know WHY.
Punctuation? Tenses? Grammatical order? What is confusing? What is the actual problem?
 
Oceanbreeze said:
:confused: I really don't know what you're getting at.
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Let me explain.

If someone says "Math is hard"
And someone wants to help, and asks "Why is it hard?"

There is a good chance that person is NOT asking out of twisted curiosity.

In order to help, you need to know what is 'hard' about math.
Is it multiplying that is the problem?
Division? Variables? Fractions? If you do not know, you have to guess, and may end up frustrating both parties.
 
jenni-m said:
Let me explain.

If someone says "Math is hard"
And someone wants to help, and asks "Why is it hard?"

There is a good chance that person is NOT asking out of twisted curiosity.

In order to help, you need to know what is 'hard' about math.
Is it multiplying that is the problem?
Division? Variables? Fractions? If you do not know, you have to guess, and may end up frustrating both parties.
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I think it has to do with appearances. The person's question appeared rude to alot of us. Not just me, and we all responded in kind. When responding on a deaf forum to a mostly a deaf audience, one must take into consideration that a question such as the one asked above might just appear rude and maybe it's best that it's not asked by the poster.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
I think it has to do with appearances. The person's question appeared rude to alot of us. Not just me, and we all responded in kind. When responding on a deaf forum to a mostly a deaf audience, one must take into consideration that a question such as the one asked above might just appear rude and maybe it's best that it's not asked by the poster.
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I understand that.
But it works both ways too. You can't be too quick to jump into opposition and then expect inclusion later, after you have already made that impression.

If it seemed rude, but wasn't meant to be, that person was jumped on for no reason, with no proof of further information (that I have seen).

Yes, that can happen, nobody is perfect (and I am far from perfect). But can you honestly say to me that doing that is the right thing to do?
 
I didn't start to write and read until I was around 5 or 6 years old. Before 5 or 6 years old, I was only write very several words but I was able to understand some images. With that reason, personally, some of my old schools didn't really help me at all until I moved to the deaf school. It was helped me a lot and much more. Pretty better.

I always wish I can spell many difficult words.. At the least, I'm still so relief that my grammar is not so bad, so it's somewhat easy to commucation with hearing people.

I just hate it when some people goes to say, for example, "OH MY GOSH! You don't know what is a '(any word I don't know what it mean is)' mean!? Gee, you should go back to H.S.!!" What? What are they expect me something that I 'know'? UGH!
 
I apologize for my earlier posts.

It just frustrates me, the actions I see some times.

As I said, nobody is perfect, and things happen, but that moment was just triggering to me, I think.

WE as a 'minority' do not have the luxury of opposing every perceived offense that comes along. It just does not work, we -must- try to be diplomatic when possible, show that we think just as well as anyone else. It is almost like WE have more to prove, in a way.

If you simply react to things, people tend to think you are a zealot. Zealots are almost -never- respected, so we need to educate and be aware of impressions we make, if we are going to get anywhere.
 
Ozzie said:
Got it! :)

But why are there some hearies who are not so good in grammar, etc ... they're hearing so why aren't they fluent then? They are in a world of sound and speech so why lacking in that area?
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Because grammar applies to not just fluency in language usage, but to specific rules that must be followed in specific situations. It is memorization, on large part. Some hearies don't memorize the rules, do not receive sufficient practice in using those rules (difference between spoken, informal langugage, and written or spoken formal spoken language), they have no interest in or do not see the necessity for learning to use proper grammar if it cannot be applied to their life in a meaningful way, they have a specific learning disability or language disorder, or, as happens in far too many cases....they simply don't give a damn.

Just wanted to add that one can be able to execute perfect grammar and still not use language at the level of a native, because while they are mechanically correct, they are unable to use the language creatively and in unique ways to represent new and unique thoughts.
 
jenni-m said:
Let me explain.

If someone says "Math is hard"
And someone wants to help, and asks "Why is it hard?"

There is a good chance that person is NOT asking out of twisted curiosity.

In order to help, you need to know what is 'hard' about math.
Is it multiplying that is the problem?
Division? Variables? Fractions? If you do not know, you have to guess, and may end up frustrating both parties.
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The responses to the question were carry overs from attitudes regarding deafness made evident in other threads and other posts.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
I think it has to do with appearances. The person's question appeared rude to alot of us. Not just me, and we all responded in kind. When responding on a deaf forum to a mostly a deaf audience, one must take into consideration that a question such as the one asked above might just appear rude and maybe it's best that it's not asked by the poster.
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Exactly. Cultural context needs to be taken into consideration before a question is phrased. For instance, I could ask you "What's so hard about being in a wheelchair?" and you would most likely be justifiably offended. However, if I asked you, "What are some of the obstacles that feel need to be overcome by someone who is wheelchair bound?" I doubt that you would find my question, or my interest, offensive. The way the first one is phrased includes an implication that there is nothing difficult about being in a wheelchair and that you are just whining and complaining if you say it is difficult.
 
jenni-m said:
I apologize for my earlier posts.

It just frustrates me, the actions I see some times.

As I said, nobody is perfect, and things happen, but that moment was just triggering to me, I think.

WE as a 'minority' do not have the luxury of opposing every perceived offense that comes along. It just does not work, we -must- try to be diplomatic when possible, show that we think just as well as anyone else. It is almost like WE have more to prove, in a way.

If you simply react to things, people tend to think you are a zealot. Zealots are almost -never- respected, so we need to educate and be aware of impressions we make, if we are going to get anywhere.
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No need to apologize. Your POV was not out of line. And making an impression goes 2 ways. Check my post regarding cultural context above.
 
I wanted to share with you that I am HOH, and was raised by my mom who spoke no English and a father with 5th grade education...so growing up hearing, my vocabulary of words was very restricted.....also Spanish is my first language and English is my second learned language.
I also started college at 32... and only went because once time, I went out to dinner with another couple and the lady there seemed very smart to me and I was jealous of her vocabulary. Later, I thought to myself, "I can let this eat me up or do something about it" ...so I did...I took the college test for English and Math. I scored college level math...but not in English,,I had to take the English class that helps you write paragraphs, then the college level English course for credit ...anyways.. I now am 43 and finally got my masters degree....and did it raising two sons alone....so ...I also had help all through college from my friends who edited my papers to make sure the papers or essays I wrote were grammatically correct. I finally got the grasp of how decent papers had to be but I still will (most people do) have someone proof read my papers to make sure I got the point across and to see if they caught something I didn't catch.
I still am not the best at grammar and I have accepted that... but I worked hard for my college credits that finally added up and it seems like you are also....so stay encouraged,,,:wiggle: and keep up the hard work..... it will pay off !!!
I still see and read other people's posts on here and their grammar is much better than mine..but thats okay. I do the best I can do for me and I try to look at the positive side always (isn't easy all the time)
So, be happy your in college and remember improving your skills, it takes practice and you will get it. :h5:
 
jillio said:
Being able to use grammar correctly does not have anything to do with being smart. I know many deaf people who have problems with English grammar that are very intelligent and fluid thinkers. They just phrase things differently. But their ability to understand is very high.

That guy was just a judgemental jerk. He isn't worth your time. Of course behavior like that does hurt your feelings, but keep in mind that the problem is with the other person, and not with you.

I would suggest that you go to whatever college is the most willing to accommodate your needs. That is where you will be able to get the best education.

Hang in there and keep working hard. Don't let anyone get in your way. I have faith that you are going to do well.
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To: Jillio,

Right, he's not worth my time. I moved on. No, I don't let anyone get in my way. Yes, I will try hard. I appreciate it. Thank you for this.
 
Hi SwP (sweetpolly),

Wow, Thank you for sharing.
I'm glad you got your MA degree. You worked hard to get your credit. I applauded you for that.

Well, I'm 34, boy. I drop in and out. Things got so complicated in my life. So I wish I had finish college by 25. I will continue to study but I decide to go to different college.

Again, Thank you for sharing.
Oh, BTW (by the way). My grammar english's not perfect at least I try my best and I have to check to see if its wrong or not. But I had to admit it, it was struggle for me with grammar english.
 
Those are two of the reasons I struggle with grammar. I was diagnosed with learning disabilities when I was nine years old. As a result, my writing lacks flair.
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Oceanbreeze, I have NOT noticed any significent grammar issues in your posts. You seem to express yourself quite well.
 
deafdyke said:
Oceanbreeze, I have NOT noticed any significent grammar issues in your posts. You seem to express yourself quite well.
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Edit is my friend. :giggle:

I take the time to edit and correct any obvious mistakes that I make before I send the post. Then, I re-read my posts after I hit the send button, and edit again if I need to! I am a bit anal when it comes to this, because I want my posts to be readable.
 
jillio said:
Exactly. Cultural context needs to be taken into consideration before a question is phrased. For instance, I could ask you "What's so hard about being in a wheelchair?" and you would most likely be justifiably offended. However, if I asked you, "What are some of the obstacles that feel need to be overcome by someone who is wheelchair bound?" I doubt that you would find my question, or my interest, offensive. The way the first one is phrased includes an implication that there is nothing difficult about being in a wheelchair and that you are just whining and complaining if you say it is difficult.
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I guess I looked at it differently (as I often do).
The thought of it being offensive did not enter my mind, actually, and the difference still confuses me... but I kind of see it now.

Just keep in mind that:

1. I am very technical and analytical...
2. I am not over sympathetic, because I am used to going through crap also. I do not really even connect poor grammar to deafness, not completely, because it IS still possible to learn. There may be delays, yes, but some people have to work harder than others in a lot of different scenarios. This is not special, to me.
 
jenni-m said:
I guess I looked at it differently (as I often do).
The thought of it being offensive did not enter my mind, actually, and the difference still confuses me... but I kind of see it now.

Just keep in mind that:

1. I am very technical and analytical...
2. I am not over sympathetic, because I am used to going through crap also. I do not really even connect poor grammar to deafness, not completely, because it IS still possible to learn. There may be delays, yes, but some people have to work harder than others in a lot of different scenarios. This is not special, to me.
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Just a difference in perspective. Unfortunately, though, grammar difficulties are something that the deaf stuggle with disproportionately.
 
jillio said:
Just a difference in perspective. Unfortunately, though, grammar difficulties are something that the deaf stuggle with disproportionately.
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Believe me, I recognize this (very well), but I think it is more due to teaching method and closed mindedness of teachers. As I said before, in another post, language is language.

A lot depends on teaching method, age, what you have previously learned... it is possible to teach someone to 'speak' fluently in Morse Code, where you only have a dot and a dash to work with... and that has -nothing- to do with sound, it can be done by sight or feel also. The problem is 'rewiring' the way one thinks, in a way that is meaningful to them. I think more linguistic study of ASL vs English (and other languages) is in order. Discover what happens in the brain when a child learns ASL, and how it will effect learning a second language, and -adapt- a teaching method for it.
 
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