Difference between HARD of HEARING and DEAF

[VacationGuy234]

You are not from the U.S. In other countries, cultures and norms may be, and are, different. What is perceived as normal here may not be elsewhere. And vice versa.

A global deaf world would be nice, but that, unfortunately, is a long way off.

 

[Anij]

But where I'm from, using CIs or HAs is going against the Deaf culture so anyone with HAs or CIs would never be accepted in to the Deaf world even if they use sign. The Deaf culture would class anyone with CIs or HAs as deaf and never Deaf.

In all the Deaf Communities I've ever been involved in (in multiple cities) plenty of very well respected, very active, key Deaf members of the community who are deaf (+95db) and use HA (a few even CI) - it's never been an issue. We also have a large number of "audiologically Hoh" Deaf people, all of which are 100% accepted and part of the Deaf Community.

It really sounds like VacationGuy and a few others are basing a lot of their "Truths" about what the Deaf community in general "thinks" based on what they experience in only their location (or what they've been told) rather than on a more diverse experience.

 

[VacationGuy234]

In all the Deaf Communities I've ever been involved in (in multiple cities) plenty of very well respected, very active, key Deaf members of the community who are deaf (+95db) and use HA (a few even CI) - it's never been an issue. We also have a large number of "audiologically Hoh" Deaf people, all of which are 100% accepted and part of the Deaf Community.

It really sounds like VacationGuy and a few others are basing a lot of their "Truths" about what the Deaf community in general "thinks" based on what they experience in only their location (or what they've been told) rather than on a more diverse experience.

You need to re-read the posts, it's not about whether you can be friends with Deaf(although it may be harder to do that in UK), it's about whether you are considered Deaf vs deaf.

In this totally accepting community you speak of, what is the difference between Deaf and deaf? Are you saying there is no difference and no distinction?

 

[AlleyCat]

In this totally accepting community you speak of, what is the difference between Deaf and deaf? Are you saying there is no difference and no distinction?

Really?

It's starting to seem an awful lot like you are looking to argue for the sake of arguing.

Are you really, truly, honestly :roll: feeling it's YOUR place to determine for everybody else what Deaf and deaf should be?

Generally, "deaf" is medically deaf, and "Deaf" is culturally Deaf.

You are on the verge (if not already) of grossly offending many who were raised deaf AND Deaf by telling everyone what you perceive it should be for everyone. That isn't YOUR right. I've been deaf for all my 42 years, and Deaf for something less than that. Being Culturally Deaf is something that occurs over time, it doesn't happen overnight.

 

[Jiro]

I don't know why many here get ridiculed from Deaf people for wearing hearing aids in their local Deaf communities. Here in the MD/VA/DC/PA Deaf communities, I have never encountered anyone ridiculing or rejecting people for wearing hearing aids or CIs. Maybe it is because they live in smaller towns and the Deaf people there are more ignorant?

The only rejection or ridicule I have seen if the person demonstrate audism thinking. Saying that Deaf people should learn to function in the hearing world, are isolating themselves, or that Deaf people who have no speech skills aren't as smart. Things like that.

I know why. it's most likely because of their attitude. I've been to many deaf events in handful of cities. I wear HA and I sign in PSE. no problem.

I believe one's experience with deaf community is based on how one sees it - half-glass empty or half-glass full. it does appear that a couple of people in here are over-analyzing and over-generalizing it. way too much.

 

[Jiro]

In all the Deaf Communities I've ever been involved in (in multiple cities) plenty of very well respected, very active, key Deaf members of the community who are deaf (+95db) and use HA (a few even CI) - it's never been an issue. We also have a large number of "audiologically Hoh" Deaf people, all of which are 100% accepted and part of the Deaf Community.

It really sounds like VacationGuy and a few others are basing a lot of their "Truths" about what the Deaf community in general "thinks" based on what they experience in only their location (or what they've been told) rather than on a more diverse experience.

heck - I've been to several small/large deaf events in Boston and it's all good.

I just got back from DC yesterday for DeafNation Expo. I was working a table there and has met hundreds deafies of all kinds - HOH, Oral, Deaf, deaf, CI, HA, CODA (little one and grown up), late-deaf, "late-ASL'er" (like me), "generation" deafie, etc. no problem. all is good. nobody got judged.

 

[AlleyCat]

I agree. It's almost as if the concept that AD has been trying to utilize for a long time now -- everybody identifies themselves as what they are -- and not what people tell them they are -- has suddenly rudely gone out the window.

 

[NaidaUP]

My friends and I had the convo a few months ago, saying we don't belong in the Deaf world even tho we sign and we don't belong in the hearing world as we are all profoundly deaf.

This is what google says.

A positive attitude toward being deaf is typical in Deaf cultural groups. Deafness is not generally considered a condition that needs to be fixed.
The use of a sign language is central to Deaf cultural identity. Oralist approaches to educating deaf children thereby pose a threat to the continued existence of Deaf culture. Members of Deaf communities may also oppose technological innovations like cochlear implants and hearing aids for the same reason.
Culturally, Deaf people value the use of natural sign languages that exhibit their own grammatical conventions, such as American Sign Language and British Sign Language, over signed versions of English or other oral languages. Note that spoken English, written English and signed English are three different symbolic systems for expressing the same language.
Deaf communities strongly oppose discrimination against deaf people.
Deaf culture in the United States tends to be collectivist rather than individualist; culturally Deaf people value the group.

 

[Anij]

You need to re-read the posts, it's not about whether you can be friends with Deaf(although it may be harder to do that in UK), it's about whether you are considered Deaf vs deaf.

In this totally accepting community you speak of, what is the difference between Deaf and deaf? Are you saying there is no difference and no distinction?

Yes - I'm saying there is NO difference and NO distinction.
Within EVERY Deaf Community I've ever known the members are Deaf (regardless if they are audiologically hoh or deaf, regardless of if they use HA or CI).

We are Deaf first ... all the other stuff is just "stuff", no more important to being Deaf than ones gender, height, skin colour etc.

Being Deaf means cherishing our culture, language, etc - it means supporting each other, helping the next generation, providing resources, etc. It's not about if you can talk, or if you choose to use an HA or CI.

Are you seriously telling me that the Deaf Community that you are involved in looks down on it's people who wear HAs? Talk about being stuck 30years in the past (or perhaps you aren't actually involved in the Deaf Community and you're just "saying stuff" you think is correct ??)


BTW this "Totally accepting community" I'm referring to is (with first hand knowledge) most of the USA and CANADA

 

[Jiro]

My friends and I had the convo a few months ago, saying we don't belong in the Deaf world even tho we sign and we don't belong in the hearing world as we are all profoundly deaf.

then your friends need to have a talk with me and my friends. each of us are from different backgrounds. I'm born deaf but raised orally and learned ASL 4 years ago. other friend is from 3+ generations deaf. other is late deaf. so on.

it's entirely up to you whichever the world you feel belong to. it's no different from you moving to any country you feel fit in better. I do have some deaf friends who wear HA, can speak & sign like me but does not get involved in deaf world and that's just fine with me. I'm born in Korea but I feel fit in American culture better and that's just fine with anybody else.

if a person is telling you to get out because you don't belong in it, then that person is one sad individual living in a very closed narrow-minded world. I would gladly leave and find somebody else. there's a very high chance that he has never been around much which is why he fights to keep outsiders out in order to preserve his world to keep it the way it is. he's afraid of new things. truly sad and isolating.

This is what google says.

A positive attitude toward being deaf is typical in Deaf cultural groups. Deafness is not generally considered a condition that needs to be fixed.
The use of a sign language is central to Deaf cultural identity. Oralist approaches to educating deaf children thereby pose a threat to the continued existence of Deaf culture. Members of Deaf communities may also oppose technological innovations like cochlear implants and hearing aids for the same reason.
Culturally, Deaf people value the use of natural sign languages that exhibit their own grammatical conventions, such as American Sign Language and British Sign Language, over signed versions of English or other oral languages. Note that spoken English, written English and signed English are three different symbolic systems for expressing the same language.
Deaf communities strongly oppose discrimination against deaf people.
Deaf culture in the United States tends to be collectivist rather than individualist; culturally Deaf people value the group.

don't worry about what the google says. forget about it. nobody cares especially in most deaf communities. if you're in deaf communities but do not identify yourself as "Deaf"... nobody cares.

As long as you're cool and don't see the world half-glass empty.... everybody's having good time especially you!

I'd strongly advise you to find new friends if your friends are constantly being such a debbie downer.

 

[VacationGuy234]

Really?

It's starting to seem an awful lot like you are looking to argue for the sake of arguing.

Are you really, truly, honestly :roll: feeling it's YOUR place to determine for everybody else what Deaf and deaf should be?

Generally, "deaf" is medically deaf, and "Deaf" is culturally Deaf.

You are on the verge (if not already) of grossly offending many who were raised deaf AND Deaf by telling everyone what you perceive it should be for everyone. That isn't YOUR right. I've been deaf for all my 42 years, and Deaf for something less than that. Being Culturally Deaf is something that occurs over time, it doesn't happen overnight.

If you are wearing a hearing aid or a CI and calling yourself Deaf with a capital D, you can sure, it's not me who's been offending the Deaf Community.

You can learn about a culture. You can learn language. But, you cannot believe in something and not practice it. If you truly believe being deaf is not a problem and you don't need to be fixed, you're Deaf and if you do not you are not.

Trust me, anyone who is truly Deaf is NOT offended by my statements.

And, by the way, it isn't anyone's, "RIGHT" to include themselves in a group of which they only dream they were included.

 

[Anij]

If you are wearing a hearing aid or a CI and calling yourself Deaf with a capital D, you can sure, it's not me who's been offending the Deaf Community.

Um - no one in the Deaf Community is being "offended" at all by it's members who wear HAs/CI (what century are you living in?)

Trust me, anyone who is truly Deaf is NOT offended by my statements.

Want to make a bet?

You're currently offending thousands of "truly Deaf" people (including those who're Deaf of Deaf of Deaf) with your bizarre, outdated, and inaccurate views of what "Deaf" means.

 

[VacationGuy234]

Yes - I'm saying there is NO difference and NO distinction.
Within EVERY Deaf Community I've ever known the members are Deaf (regardless if they are audiologically hoh or deaf, regardless of if they use HA or CI).

That is totally amazing. I'm very impressed.

So, perhaps you can answer this for me, Anij: Why is Jane Fernandes NOT DEAF ENOUGH?

Is Deaf University President Not 'Deaf Enough'? - ABC News

 

[Jiro]

If you are wearing a hearing aid or a CI and calling yourself Deaf with a capital D, you can sure, it's not me who's been offending the Deaf Community.

You can learn about a culture. You can learn language. But, you cannot believe in something and not practice it. If you truly believe being deaf is not a problem and you don't need to be fixed, you're Deaf and if you do not you are not.

what? who said you're not supposed to hear anything if you're Deaf?

Trust me, anyone who is truly Deaf is NOT offended by my statements.

And, by the way, it isn't anyone's, "RIGHT" to include themselves in a group of which they only dream they were included.

just FYI - I've been to both Gally and RIT. as you know - they both have strong Deaf culture and..... lot of them wear HA/CI. and there are also lot of "3+ generation" deafies who do mingle with all kinds. nobody is offended except you.

I really have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Jiro]

That is totally amazing. I'm very impressed.

So, perhaps you can answer this for me, Anij: Why is Jane Fernandes NOT DEAF ENOUGH?

Is Deaf University President Not 'Deaf Enough'? - ABC News

I can answer this question.

you missed out this keyword -

On this campus, where debates focus on whether there are enough college employees who are deaf or whether sign language is emphasized enough over reading lips, Fernandes says some do not consider her to be "deaf enough. "

and whether or not if Fernandez is deaf enough is not even an issue in here. look at Obama - some says he's not black enough. or not Christian enough. or not American enough. and that's not even an issue. it's nonsensical. it's irrelevant.

Both Obama and Fernandez share same resistance -

Students and faculty opposing Fernandes cite many reasons for their opposition -- a belief that not enough nonwhite candidates were seriously considered and Fernandes' management style among them.

But many here do not believe that Fernandes is capable of such reaching out. "The community is very divided," said second-year student Christopher Corrigan, known as the mayor of "Tent City," the lawn-turned-campground where many protestors reside.

"Her approach is very inappropriate," Corrigan said. "Her thoughts, her philosophy about working with a diverse group of students is not appropriate. We want someone who can lead us. Who can unite us together."

they're opposing Fernandez's approach, not whether or not if she's deaf enough to lead Gally.

 

[Anij]

That is totally amazing. I'm very impressed.

So, perhaps you can answer this for me, Anij: Why is Jane Fernandes NOT DEAF ENOUGH?

Is Deaf University President Not 'Deaf Enough'? - ABC News

If you actually read the article (which is now 7 years old!!) it states that MOST people don't see any issue with her - That MOST of the opposition is actually not anything at all to do with "Deaf enough" it has to do with:

"Students and faculty opposing Fernandes cite many reasons for their opposition -- a belief that not enough nonwhite candidates were seriously considered and Fernandes' management style among them".

It's only a TINY fraction of people who hold on to the old "Deaf of Deaf" views. This will always be the case- there will always be a small number of people who see "Deaf" as only being those who have multiple generations of entirely Deaf families and who shun anything other than "ASL only". They make up far less than .1% of the Deaf Population and are NOT representative of the "whole".

I'm really not sure what you're playing at, because your "Deafer than thou" comments just aren't valid in the 21 Century Deaf World.

You state you're from Mass ... having visited parts of Mass (and surrounding states) many times, I haven't found the "you must be totally deaf and not use HAs to be really Deaf" attitude you have.

Exactly how involved are you in your local Deaf Community?

 

[VacationGuy234]

I'd strongly advise you to find new friends if your friends are constantly being such a debbie downer.

I pose the same question Jiro: Why is Jane Fernandes NOT DEAF ENOUGH?

You were at Galladet over the weekend, I'm sure you can answer this question.

 

[jonnyghost]

I pose the same question Jiro: Why is Jane Fernandes NOT DEAF ENOUGH?

You were at Galladet over the weekend, I'm sure you can answer this question.

I thought Anij just did

 

[Jiro]

I pose the same question Jiro: Why is Jane Fernandes NOT DEAF ENOUGH?

You were at Galladet over the weekend, I'm sure you can answer this question.

see Post #115 for my reply to your question. and I have a same question as Anji - exactly how involved are you in your local Deaf Community?

mind you - I've been to Boston and I'm quite involved in it when I can. I know many people there. in fact - I'll be there in a couple weeks. you should come by and I'll introduce you to dozens of deafies including my deaf Brooklyn gang. if you do get shunned or criticized by any deafie for not being deaf enough or something, please do let me know.

as far as I'm concerned - I have never heard or encounter such thing you speak of in both Boston and Gally. I really have no idea what you're talking about and several ADers are scratching their heads too about your claim.

 

[Lau2046]

Man, this post has really gotten off track....