which is better?

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faire_jour said:
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you are flat out wrong. The school was absolutely amazing, for a very small segment of the population. They were amazing. They did what they do beautifully. I have never once, for a second advocated against deaf schools.

plus, this discussion is about cis not schools.
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The hell you haven't! You seem to have a very short memory.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Neither do you. You're not the one implanted. Do you really think I haven't had long lectures and speeches and explanations about cochlear implants from doctors and audiologists? Hello? I'm deaf, remember?
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Wanna bet that Grendel's daugher may be going thru that too?
 
DeafCaroline said:
Neither do you. You're not the one implanted. Do you really think I haven't had long lectures and speeches and explanations about cochlear implants from doctors and audiologists? Hello? I'm deaf, remember?
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Yes, I do have a great deal of knowledge about cochlear implants. And I am very familiar with what they can do and can't do.
 
posts from hell said:
the MO continues.........................

same old, same old.

Now, Grendel, are you defending Faire Jour?
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Of course. Simply because she is a hearing parent of a deaf child. It has nothing to do with agreement in philosophy. That is why I end up being the target. They expect me to defend them just because I am a hearing parent of a deaf child, and I absolutely refuse to do that. I will defend based upon philosophy, nothing more.
 
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DeafCaroline said:
faire_jour said:
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i don't care if you don't like implants. They have improved my child's life. She has relationships with people she struggled to communicate with for years. She is closer to her extended family than we ever hoped.
i do NOT think every child should be implanted.
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So, she is closer to family because she has greater hearing, not because they love her enough to be close to her when she was deaf? That's very sad. My extended family have been very close and loving to me since the day I was born and my hearing aids made no difference in the volume or quality of love they had for me. In fact, I would even go so far as to say my grandparents and cousins and aunts and uncles actually made far more of an effort to make sure i always felt included than my own immediate family.

I struggle to hear but that didn't stop me from making the effort to communicate and usually do so very successfully whether it's with speech, writing it down on paper or gesturing. In fact I'm far more successful communicating with people who don't speak English than all hearing people I know because of my ability to be so adaptive when it comes to communication. Will your CI child have the same ability to be very adaptive and flexible if her CI breaks down or her battery run dry? Or will she become very upset that she cannot hear what people are saying and have a hard time dealing with that? Let me ask you this - what's the longest your child has gone without hearing after getting implanted and not be upset about it? Can she go a whole week stone deaf and not throw a fit? I once fell into the river with my hearing aid on and had to wait about a week and a half before getting a new set. It didn't affect me at all other than feeling bad for destroying an expensive piece of equipment. I was fine not hearing anything. I could still speak and lipread. Life went on as per usual. No big drama.


You say you do not think every child be implanted yet you make it very clear that those parents who opts not to don't value their child enough.
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yes, it sucks. They have always loved her, but there was a distance as she began to age and they could no longer communicate with her. We had to be constant interpreters for her. In public, with othher kids, and yes, even with her extended family. As her asl began to sharply grow, they began to feel intimidated and overwhelmed because they couldn't understand her.

for example, her grandmother signed all the other grandchildren up for music lessons together. My daughter was not included. They would go to a cooking class, but my daughter was not invited unless one of us was available to interpret.

it is a sad fact, but since 80% of parents don't learn to sign, the number for fluent extended family must be tiny.
 
GrendelQ said:
But that's just it. DC wrote a post accusing FJ of exposing her child to unnecessary risk. That's cruel and unnecessary when the risk of CIs are infinitesimal compared with the risks every parent exposes his or her child to daily. Peanut butter is more dangerous than CIs. Letting a child ride a bike: far, far more dangerous.

I wouldn't write a post condemning a parent for exposing his or her child to risk because they let their child ride a bike, ride in a car, enter school. That's absurd and nasty. I'd advise caution to parents: have your children wear seat belts if you ride in a car, wear helmets if you bike, get vaccinated for meningitis if your child is deaf, whether or not you choose CIs (deaf/HOH kids have a significantly higher incidence of meningitis than hearing kids, without CIs), and so on. You can't keep your child wrapped in cotton at home -- even that is probably dangerous :).
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No matter how you try to color it, a CI is not necessary, and therefore, any risk undertaken in pursuit of such is still an unnecessary risk, by definition. Unless, of course, you are operating from the audist perspective that hearing is necessary for life quality.
 
jillio said:
No matter how you try to color it, a CI is not necessary, and therefore, any risk undertaken in pursuit of such is still an unnecessary risk, by definition.
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Neither is putting your child in the car a necessity. Or cooking on a stove. Or giving a bath.
 
GrendelQ said:
Yes, I do have a great deal of knowledge about cochlear implants. And I am very familiar with what they can do and can't do.
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but I don't because I'm not a hearing parent of a CI kid therefore you're the expert here, not us. Ooooooooo.....

my mother considered herself an expert on oralism - in fact she was president of VOICE for well over 10 years. She was still wrong despite that she thought she was very well informed and intimately familiar because she was the mother of a deaf mainstreamed kid.

It's unbelievable that you think deaf people shouldn't post about CIs - it's for deaf people, not for hearing parents.
 
DeafCaroline said:
I'm offensive for posting the cons of CIs as stated by the FDA? I'm making a point to faire_jour that if we're going to be frank, then let's be really frank.
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Exactly. Let's get down to brass tacks.
 
deafskeptic said:
If I'm not mistaken, your deafness is a conductive one anyway? CIs wouldn't have been useful anyway.
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no idea. I have totally no idea what conductive, sensoneurial (whatever the spelling is) and the whole book of terms related to hearing loss means.

so i never brought it up. I was born deaf, and that is all i know.
 
posts from hell said:
no idea. I have totally no idea what conductive, sensoneurial (whatever the spelling is) and the whole book of terms related to hearing loss means.

so i never brought it up. I was born deaf, and that is all i know.
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Ah. :ty:
 
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deafskeptic said:
jillio said:
It is for your child to determine if they have improved her life, not you. You are not the one that is deaf. She is. And according to your blog, and all the pain and frustration she experienced after her second implant, she no doubt has a very different perspective than you do.

If she was struggling to communicate with her extended family, then it was the extended family's responsibility to learn to communicate with her, not her responsibility to meet their needs.
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I guess Cloggy isn't the only parent who's in denial about CIs and deafness.
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yes, and she says she is very thankful for her implants, every single day.

she says that she wants to grow up and teach "other deaf babies with implants to talk" at her oral school.

but again, you will simply say that it is brainwashing rather than accept that her life is doing just fine.

(oh and she also says that she is happy that she can speak and sign because she says then she can talk to deaf people with and without implants)
 
faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted



yes, it sucks. They have always loved her, but there was a distance as she began to age and they could no longer communicate with her. We had to be constant interpreters for her. In public, with othher kids, and yes, even with her extended family. As her asl began to sharply grow, they began to feel intimidated and overwhelmed because they couldn't understand her.

for example, her grandmother signed all the other grandchildren up for music lessons together. My daughter was not included. They would go to a cooking class, but my daughter was not invited unless one of us was available to interpret.

it is a sad fact, but since 80% of parents don't learn to sign, the number for fluent extended family must be tiny.
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My parents never had to interpret for me.
 
GrendelQ said:
Yes, I do have a great deal of knowledge about cochlear implants. And I am very familiar with what they can do and can't do.
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No offense, but I don't think you have told of a CI user's disappointment with it. You say you read many online CI forums, and I think it odd you have never mentioned failures. I personally know of some. Not many, but they exist.
 
Beowulf said:
No offense, but I don't think you have told of a CI user's disappointment with it. You say you read many online CI forums, and I think it odd you have never mentioned failures. I personally know of some. Not many, but they exist.
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I know of two such failures. One right here on AD and one that I leanred of when I was recovering from a severe infection. My thereapist told me about a deaf kid she had to work with and how his CI didn't work out for him.
 
GrendelQ said:
Yes, I do have a great deal of knowledge about cochlear implants. And I am very familiar with what they can do and can't do.
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From a hearing perspective. You continually discount the deaf perspective of deaf CI users.
 
faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted



yes, and she says she is very thankful for her implants, every single day.

she says that she wants to grow up and teach "other deaf babies with implants to talk" at her oral school.

but again, you will simply say that it is brainwashing rather than accept that her life is doing just fine.

(oh and she also says that she is happy that she can speak and sign because she says then she can talk to deaf people with and without implants)
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She is repeating what she has been exposed to in her family. Quite simple. Obviously you have no knowledge of child development.

Funny, how you will give validity to anything you think remotely supports your position, but totally ignored the fact that by your own report, her screaming, crying, and pulling her implants off.
 
I have a friend who had 2 failed CI implantations. Postlingual deafness, too. It happens.
 
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