Mainstream V Special School

Lighthouse77 said:
How would you feel if your own daughter in oral school is at kindergarten level at 5th grade?

btw, in mainstreamed, I was in 2nd or 3rd english level when I was in 5th grade. They just brush me off as deaf and ignore it. I think I am still in 3rd grade English or so.
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I wouldn't allow my child to reach 5th grade and be using a language, in school, in which she can understand only at a 5 year old level. That would be unacceptable.
 
faire_jour said:
First of all, I believe I have mentioned the "stat" to which you are refering, once or twice on this message board in the last year, and not at all in this discussion.

Secondly, I have consistantly said that a Deaf school is often a good choice for a deaf child. My own child has attended a state school for the deaf all of her educational years, and it is possible that she will continue.

However, I do believe that there are situations in which a Deaf school would be a bad choice. Daredevil brought up a situation, and we have been discussing it. In that situation, I would not allow my child to attend that school. Just as Sallylou said, parents must look at all their options and make a responsible choice.

It seems to me that you are saying that a Deaf school is the only right choice, and while that may have been true for your child, it is not always the case.
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I don't believe I mentioned you quoting it in this thread; just that you have quoted it. And without thinking it all the way through, it is a misleading quote.

We are discussing mainstream as a whole vs deaf schools as a whole. There are many singular mainstream schools that I would not place any child in, deaf or hearing. There are also some deaf schools I would not place a deaf child in. That is a matter of the individual school, not of the educational philosophy. The purpose of this discussion is not to compare individual schools to each other.

Perhaps the way it seems to you is not what I am saying at all. I am saying that the mainstream could be a viable choice IF the child is given the proper accommodations and communication freedom that is offered at a deaf school, and is able to achieve one on one interaction with students and staff alike.

If you know of a mainstream school that accomplishes that, I would be happy to take a look at it.
 
faire_jour said:
I don't care about why (when it comes to choosing a school for my child, if we are talking about parent education or advocacy, of course I care, and I'm fighting for change)! If I walk into a 5th grade class and none of the kids can write an age appropriate sentence and they are all reading on a Kindergarten level, no, I would not put my academically age appropriate child in that school. Why the children are behind won't change the decision.
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Well then, if you aren't considering the "why", you are hardly looking at a complete picture, and are consciously dismissing pertinent information related to child success from your decision. Of course, it is your choice to do so, but you cannot claim to be making a completely informed decision without giving consideration to the "why." Why children are behind speaks directly of the success of the approach they are being exposed to.
 
jillio said:
I don't believe I mentioned you quoting it in this thread; just that you have quoted it. And without thinking it all the way through, it is a misleading quote.

We are discussing mainstream as a whole vs deaf schools as a whole. There are many singular mainstream schools that I would not place any child in, deaf or hearing. There are also some deaf schools I would not place a deaf child in. That is a matter of the individual school, not of the educational philosophy. The purpose of this discussion is not to compare individual schools to each other.

Perhaps the way it seems to you is not what I am saying at all. I am saying that the mainstream could be a viable choice IF the child is given the proper accommodations and communication freedom that is offered at a deaf school, and is able to achieve one on one interaction with students and staff alike.

If you know of a mainstream school that accomplishes that, I would be happy to take a look at it.
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I believe the choice is individual to the child.
 
faire_jour said:
I wouldn't allow my child to reach 5th grade and be using a language, in school, in which she can understand only at a 5 year old level. That would be unacceptable.
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but at the same time, you know they are trying hard to get her to catch up. I don't think they hold kids back like they used to anymore. And I don't think your child wants to be the oldest kid in class either.
 
jillio said:
Well then, if you aren't considering the "why", you are hardly looking at a complete picture, and are consciously dismissing pertinent information related to child success from your decision. Of course, it is your choice to do so, but you cannot claim to be making a completely informed decision without giving consideration to the "why." Why children are behind speaks directly of the success of the approach they are being exposed to.
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So I won't put my child in the program that failed the kids either.

Anyway you slice it, I would not put my child in a classroom that would not allow her to reach her potential. Putting a child in a class with other children who are severely delayed, when your child isn't would be one situation in which your child wouldn't be reaching their potential.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
but at the same time, you know they are trying hard to get her to catch up. I don't think they hold kids back like they used to anymore. And I don't think your child wants to be the oldest kid in class either.
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If your child is functioning at a 5 year old level in 5th grade, you have spent too long doing the wrong thing. They needed a different approach, a long time ago.
 
jillio said:
Start campaigning and advocating!
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My concern is general. I'm sure that many parents are as frustrated as I with all of the inconsistency and in many cases the lack of DHH programs in the mainstream school system. The school that my son will be attending next year fortunately has an outstanding DHH program from what I understand. It has many of the elements that I have heard others say are good in a program. As far as campaigning and advocating, I wouldn't consider myself knowledgeable enough at this stage to be effective. I don't know how much I don't know if that makes any sense.
 
faire_jour said:
If your child is functioning at a 5 year old level in 5th grade, you have spent too long doing the wrong thing. They needed a different approach, a long time ago.
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Think about this for a minute. If a hearing parent realize that her child is not keeping up in oral/mainstream school, and their deaf child don't know ASL - they still have to make a choice, either continue mainstream(which usually result LD english) /oral deaf school, or begin learning ASL. They aren't fluent ASL though so it still put them behind. You see, either way, no matter what direction the deaf child take, he will be behind because he is not prepare to take a change of course.
 
faire_jour said:
I believe the choice is individual to the child.
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And you also say that the choice should be made as a well informed choice. That means looking at the "why" as well. If you are purposely discounting the information that does not support your belief, then you are not making a well informed choice. You are making a limited choice.
 
rockdrummer said:
My concern is general. I'm sure that many parents are as frustrated as I with all of the inconsistency and in many cases the lack of DHH programs in the mainstream school system. The school that my son will be attending next year fortunately has an outstanding DHH program from what I understand. It has many of the elements that I have heard others say are good in a program. As far as campaigning and advocating, I wouldn't consider myself knowledgeable enough at this stage to be effective. I don't know how much I don't know if that makes any sense.
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I would give those parents with specific concerns the same advise.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
but at the same time, you know they are trying hard to get her to catch up. I don't think they hold kids back like they used to anymore. And I don't think your child wants to be the oldest kid in class either.
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No they don't. And you are correct. A child that is being held back receives the message that they aren't as smart as their peers, and that is a huge blow to their self esteem. Once again...here goes that self fulfilling prophecy set in motion.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
Think about this for a minute. If a hearing parent realize that her child is not keeping up in oral/mainstream school, and their deaf child don't know ASL - they still have to make a choice, either continue mainstream(which usually result LD english) /oral deaf school, or begin learning ASL. They aren't fluent ASL though so it still put them behind. You see, either way, no matter what direction the deaf child take, he will be behind because he is not prepare to take a change of course.
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Well said.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
Think about this for a minute. If a hearing parent realize that her child is not keeping up in oral/mainstream school, and their deaf child don't know ASL - they still have to make a choice, either continue mainstream(which usually result LD english) /oral deaf school, or begin learning ASL. They aren't fluent ASL though so it still put them behind. You see, either way, no matter what direction the deaf child take, he will be behind because he is not prepare to take a change of course.
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They should know before age 3 or at the very latest, age 5, whether their child has made progress enough to catch up, if not, they MUST change course.

Our early intervention has started doing assessments every 3 months to insure that enough progress is being made, if not, something changes.
 
faire_jour said:
They should know before age 3 or at the very latest, age 5, whether their child has made progress enough to catch up, if not, they MUST change course.

Our early intervention has started doing assessments every 3 months to insure that enough progress is being made, if not, something changes.
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I don't think it is wise to start teaching ASL as soon as the child start preschool/kindergarten.
 
faire_jour said:
They should know before age 3 or at the very latest, age 5, whether their child has made progress enough to catch up, if not, they MUST change course.

Our early intervention has started doing assessments every 3 months to insure that enough progress is being made, if not, something changes.
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Your child is then, one of the lucky ones and you have managed to be involved with an above average early intervention program. Most children are assessed every 3 years rather than every 3 months.

What is assessed as a slight delay at age 3 very quickly becomes a delay significant to impact functioning when concepts become more complicated as the child gets older. It is a cummulative occurrance.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
I'm saying, if you decide that Oral only isn't working out, it's too late to start teaching ASL at 3 years old (which some kids start preschool at that age -- at least mine did) or 5 years.
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It's never too late to learn ASL, I started learning at 25, my mom at 50.
 
faire_jour said:
It's never too late to learn ASL, I started learning at 25, my mom at 50.
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you already have language, your deaf child doesn't. What this preschool will be doing will be trying to develop language skills for your child. you want her to be prepare by the time she get to school
 
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