Explaining Cued Speech - from an expert.

loml said:
shel90- I also recall that details of the Cued Speech experiences were not shared, so again, how is one to know? There are many variables to having a successful experience, in all aspects of life.
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Those variables are not needed to understand whether an indivdual's assessment of a tool they have been given is successful for them or not.
 
loml said:
shel90- I also recall that details of the Cued Speech experiences were not shared, so again, how is one to know? There are many variables to having a successful experience, in all aspects of life.
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Those posters have developed literacy skills to be able to share their experiences with CS so I can safetly assume that they are capable of making their own assessments on determining whether CS was successful for them or not. I will take one's word based on own experiences.
 
shel90 said:
Those posters have developed literacy skills to be able to share their experiences with CS so I can safetly assume that they are capable of making their own assessments on determining whether CS was successful for them or not. I will take one's word based on own experiences.
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Exactly. Just another case of "I'll tell you what's best for you because I know better than you!" What a freaking' paternalistic attitude!
 
flip said:
I would be grateful if you could tell me what I am lying about? That you claim:

1. English through cueing is is all a deaf child/person need. ASL is unnecessary.

2. ASL makes it hard to develop literacy in deaf children.

or that:

you are afraid to say this straight out?
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From October 1, 2005:
loml said:
There is absolutely no reason why CS cannot be used a the tool for learning the English language and in turn ASL for communication. The only reason this does not happen, imho, is people have their own agenda. The bottom line is, if ASL alone did work for literacy then there would not be a literacy problem.
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From October 2, 2005 about ASL:
loml said:
IMHO, to suggest the parents learn a "foreign language", which in fact can/does take years to become fluent in, and historically has not proven itself to develop literacy, is actually oppressing deaf children.
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From November 3, 2005:
loml said:
It is unrealistic to expect people to become literate, by showing them English text, especially an older individual. I am presuming middle school, would be ages 11-14??

ASL is ASL... English is English
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From December 23, 2005:
loml said:
The first 6 years of life are the most important for language aquisition in both deaf and hearing children. Becoming proficient and fluent with ASL is a difficult task, (as I imagine that you are learning), now combine that with daily life and raising a deaf child.

ASL is an effective communication tool, it does not, imho, lead to English literacy. English, along with hundred of other languages, is based on phoneme, vowel and constant combinations. A deaf child should be given the opportunity to learn English intrinsically and phonetically. This can/does enable them to be on an equal learning field with their hearing peers. There is only one system that teaches a deaf child English phonemically and that is Cued Speech. Literacy is a HUGE issue for deaf children, although cochlear implants combined with auditory verbal approaches will undoubtedly impact the statistics.

You come across to me that you are in the early stages of a never ending curve, and naivety appears to be clouding your vision. I suggest you take a REAL look at the world of deafness and realise the power of the romantic realtionship that hearing people develop with ASL.
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From December 23, 2005:
loml said:
Do not misunderstand me here, I value ASL for the wonderful communication tool that it is, beyond doubt. I do however, struggle with hearing people expending their energy with advertising ASL. The promotion of ASL, imho, is simply missing the needs of the young deaf child.
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From December 29, 2005:
loml said:
Deaf children must pay an exhausting amount of attention. no matter what communication method they use. Deaf children should learn ASL, from native signers, but imho, after they have mastered the language of their family. To insist that hearing parents learn ASL upon diagnosis of their deaf child, imo, is simply unfair to everyone, including the deaf child.

Language/communication should start at home, with the people who are most influential in a childs life; his/her parents.
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From January 8, 2006:
loml said:
I firmly believe in enpowering the family and the deaf child with as many "tools" as possible. I do not support the insistance of ASL, by some "professionals", as the first tool of choice (of course I could debate whether it is really a choice or just simply "bulldosing"). I am sure I sound like a broken record here, and if that sound was cued you could see what it "sounds" like. :)
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From May 25, 2006: "I am quite sure you are aware that 95% of deaf children are born to hearing parents. Providing a clear, accurate, fluent model of ASL is not an easy task for hearing parents, one imo, best left to DOD whose first language is ASL.
The parents are best at providing a clear, accurate, fluent model of their language, whether it be Hindu, Spanish or English.

The best time to learn any language is prior to six years of age, deaf or hearing. For some DOHA children, they simply may not recieve clear, accurate, fluent models of English or ASL. The result is a no complete language. What an atrocity!

I believe that language acquisition should be a painless as possible.

Inaccurate example of any language does not create literate children. If ASL from hearing parents could do this, we would not be having this discussion."

and "ASL is a great communication tool. ASL, in a hearing family with a deaf child.. deaf child can read and write English? No

Do you get it?"

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From June 1, 2006:
loml said:
I struggle with the entire "ASL natural language" business, it is "natural" for humans to voice. The "deaf culture stuff": children belong with their family culture. When you raise a child, you work towards making them independant and able to make their way out in the world. To raise a child dependant on others for "interpretation", simply doesn't cut it for me.
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From June 13, 2006:
loml said:
That was then.... this is now. I am sure at the time parents did what the "professionals" said was the "right" appraoch to use. ASL is an awesome communication tool, but rarely alone makes for literacy in English.
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From July 6, 2006:
loml said:
With all due respect, I feel that your position here is inaccurate. Cued Speech and ASL are both valuable to a deaf person. CS for literacy/communication and ASL for communication.
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Originally Posted by loml
I struggle with the entire "ASL natural language" business, it is "natural" for humans to voice. The "deaf culture stuff": children belong with their family culture. When you raise a child, you work towards making them independant and able to make their way out in the world. To raise a child dependant on others for "interpretation", simply doesn't cut it for me.


That right there shows your ignorance about ASL. I have no words to describe how I felt when I saw this. This is what really pisses me off about the oralist when they say these things about ASL. This is exactly what caused me so much misery growing up when communication was very limited and being around only hearing peers making me feel like an alien. If I had been exposed to the Deaf culture and the Deaf community, for sure I wouldnt have all these issues of isolation, anger, and low self-esteem growing up.
 
Thank you for taking the time to find all these links, Kaitin.
 
shel90 said:
Originally Posted by loml
I struggle with the entire "ASL natural language" business, it is "natural" for humans to voice. The "deaf culture stuff": children belong with their family culture. When you raise a child, you work towards making them independant and able to make their way out in the world. To raise a child dependant on others for "interpretation", simply doesn't cut it for me.

That right there shows your ignorance about ASL. I have no words to describe how I felt when I saw this.This is what really pisses me off about the oralist when they say these things about ASL. This is exactly what caused me so much misery growing up when communication was very limited and being around only hearing peers making me feel like an alien. If I had been exposed to the Deaf culture and the Deaf community, for sure I wouldnt have all these issues of isolation, anger, and low self-esteem growing up.
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Shel90- You have not been privy to my experience with ASL. My experiences have formulated my opinions and directed my choices.
 
shel90 said:
Those posters have developed literacy skills to be able to share their experiences with CS so I can safetly assume that they are capable of making their own assessments on determining whether CS was successful for them or not. I will take one's word based on own experiences.
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shel90- You are missing my point. The system of Cued Speech is not the reason for their being/feeling unsuccessful. Life experiences, support network, parental involvement, level of hearing loss, etc. has a direct impact on success, whether this is a discussion of about Cued Speech, ASL or oral.
 
loml said:
Kaitin-

Kinda like reading the National Enquirer.
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Yep. The stuff in the National Enquirer is largely untrue and misleading. I can certainly see the similarities between stories in the National Enquirer and the posts from you that Kaitlin found.
 
loml said:
Shel90- You have not been privy to my experience with ASL. My experiences have formulated my opinions and directed my choices.
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Your experiences are subjective interpretation, not reality for all.
 
loml said:
shel90- You are missing my point. The system of Cued Speech is not the reason for their being/feeling unsuccessful. Life experiences, support network, parental involvement, level of hearing loss, etc. has a direct impact on success, whether this is a discussion of about Cued Speech, ASL or oral.
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They did not say they were unsuccessful. They said the system was largely ineffectual for them. There is a big difference there, and is indicative of your oralist viewpoint. All oralists blame the failure to thrive in an oral environment on the individual. It is not a failure of the individual, it is a failure of the system.
 
All oralists blame the failure to thrive in an oral environment on the individual. It is not a failure of the individual, it is a failure of the system
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jillo, I wish you'd been over at DumbNotes in the old days. OMG.....there was this asshole who insistutited that if a parent didn't get goodeducationall accomondations at a public school, they were lazy!
 
deafdyke said:
.
jillo, I wish you'd been over at DumbNotes in the old days. OMG.....there was this asshole who insistutited that if a parent didn't get goodeducationall accomondations at a public school, they were lazy!
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I know. It drives me crazy when people try to lay the ineffectiveness of a system on individual incompetence.:rl:
 
Actually a few years ago, people were raving about the National Enquierer's quality journalism. It's a superfical celeb rag, but it's better then People. But yeah....nobody's ever gonna mistake it for the New Yorker.
 
loml said:
Kaitin-

Kinda like reading the National Enquirer.
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I don't know anything about the National Enquirer, but from Wikipedia: the National Enquirer

The National Enquirer (also commonly known as the Enquirer) is an American supermarket tabloid now published by American Media Inc (AMI). Founded in 1926, the tabloid has gone through a variety of changes over the years, and is currently well-known for its articles focusing on celebrity news, gossip, and crime. While it briefly sought a reputation for reliable journalism and had some success scooping other media with angles on the O.J. Simpson and Monica Lewinsky stories, notable erroneous reports such as those concerning the Elizabeth Smart case have not supported that effort and the focus has been alleged to have returned to celebrity gossip.

I don't think anyone here is a celebrity. Someone's quotes with links is not gossip. Crime? No.

You wanted links, so all quotes have linked. Anyone can read the whole threads and make opinions. I thought Flip was wrong about posts about ASL and literacy when I first searched. I'm sorry I was surprised.
 
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