Your opinion on speech?

From very direct experience-daily-disconnecting my Cochlear Implant is SILENCE.

If I could "hear anything when disconnected" then the classification would "hearing impaired"
I am not sure"why"an ongoing "bebate" on deaf actuality?

aside: I have been bilateral DEAF since December 20, 2006. No change -to date.

The medical terms regarding deaf or hard-of-hearing are based on how much hearing loss you have. I have a 115 db loss, and that is in the "profound" categeory. With no HAs in, I hear absolutely nothing. I can hear some with my HAs, but nowhere close enough to being able to call myself HOH, though. So I'm 100% comfortable with calling myself deaf (and Deaf too.)
 
I disagree. A separate, shared language can be a part of a culture and a cultural identity, but it's not a requirement for all cultures. Most people from the U.S., England, Canada, and Australia speak English, but they all have their own distinct cultures (and there are also various regional cultures within each of those countries). Religions can have their own culture that crosses languages. For example, Catholics from all over the world share a common cultural identity as far as their religion, even if they don't all speak the same language. In fact, the original language of Catholicism was Latin, and hardly anyone speaks that anymore. There are many cultures where no one speaks their original language because everyone who spoke it died; that doesn't mean their culture also died out. There are also many countries where there's more than one official language (such as Canada: English/French), but people who speak those different languages would still think of themselves as sharing a common national culture.

Cultural identities and languages overlap and cross into one another. Sharing a language isn't necessarily a requirement for sharing a culture. If members of Deaf culture want to exclude non-signing deaf/HOH people as being part of their culture, then that's their decision, but that ignores all the other things besides language that also make up culture, such as common experiences and beliefs (which Deaf, deaf, and HOH people sometimes do share). Some Deaf people may say, "But we often don't believe the same things or have the same experiences!" Well, not all people who sign share the same beliefs and experiences, either.


How can non signing deaf people interact with cultural signing Deaf people if they dont know the language?
 
Assuming the "cultural deaf" person can write to the" non signing deaf" person in the language they both" may use in the area they both live".
 
Another exercise in meaning of "oral deaf". Presumably referring to a "late deafened" person who can still speak however being deaf can't "understand" any spoken response.

Excluding, of course using a Cochlear Implant.

Whether one uses ASL/BSL et al is another matter.

Whether deafness is a "disability culture" seems to be "discussion" here in Alldeaf.com.

Um no. By default someone who is late deafened already has oral abilty, so they really aren't oral deaf.
 
There are plenty of oral deaf who were born deaf. They vastly outnumber the ASLers

That's slowly changing thou. I know it's fairly rare for dhh kids to get Sign/ASL right off the bat/in early childhood. But at the same time, a lot of oral teens are learning ASL as a second language, for the social aspect. Gally even has a summer camp for dhh teens to learn ASL!
I also know of a lot of HOH kids (including some unilateral kids!) who are getting exposed to ASL realtively early, so that's changing too.
 
That's slowly changing thou. I know it's fairly rare for dhh kids to get Sign/ASL right off the bat/in early childhood. But at the same time, a lot of oral teens are learning ASL as a second language, for the social aspect. Gally even has a summer camp for dhh teens to learn ASL!
I also know of a lot of HOH kids (including some unilateral kids!) who are getting exposed to ASL realtively early, so that's changing too.

Not really. The trend is in the opposite direction. That's the cause for all the panic and angst amongst the Deaf.

Get out in your community and you will see it and begin to understand.
 
From very direct experience-daily-disconnecting my Cochlear Implant back to SILENCE. It is also disconnected when I go to sleep.

If I could "hear anything when disconnected" then the classification would "hearing impaired"

I am not sure"why"an ongoing "debate" on deaf actuality?

aside: I have been bilateral DEAF since December 20, 2006. No change -to date.

aside: My hearing test/audiogram in December 2006 showed-no hearing at 105 DB.
That result set up an appointment at Sunnybrook/ Cochlear Implant section/Toronto. Easily "fit the Implant criteria when passing the physical. I easily did. The operation was July 12, 2007.

I understand the "profound category" is 85- 100 Db.

To repeat during the wait time I heard NOTHING- silence.

That is my experience which might "differ somewhat" from another person-somewhere in this world. To me changes nothing.

aside: I have never denied that I am bilateral DEAF.

Aside.....
 
Not really. The trend is in the opposite direction. That's the cause for all the panic and angst amongst the Deaf.

Get out in your community and you will see it and begin to understand.

Yep
 
I am just a few years younger that our Dr. Phil and admit that is what I grew up with as well. It still feels weird to call someone that hears some "deaf" rather than hard of hearing.

Being one of those born deaf, raised oral, I am not 100% deaf,yet I am more deaf than I am hearing. Through my life experiences of being told I had to do everything possible to fit into a hearing world and to 'become hearing' or at least appear to be, it should come as no surprise that many like me dislike labels such as 'hearing impaired' even 'hard of hearing' or anything with 'hearing'. It is not who I am. I identify as deaf not hearing. I have been down that road of trying to 'fit in' to the hearing world for 46 years and nothing changed for the better. (with the exception of my speech which compounded the facade of 'hearing' to such a degree that good speech became a curse rather than a blessing. It made it harder for me as opposed to easier). Since 2009, meeting up with other Deafies here on AD and in Deaf Communities in Australia, has made me come to the realization that being Deaf (Deaf Culture, signing, voice-off, Deaf perspective etc) is where I am myself, comfortable, at ease, and where I truly belong.
 
Not really. The trend is in the opposite direction. That's the cause for all the panic and angst amongst the Deaf.

Get out in your community and you will see it and begin to understand.

I thought the panic and angst was that parents weren't choosing ASL right off the bat, not that kids weren't learning ASL at ALL. ......But actually yes. Most parents who chose oral only seem to do it under a kneejerk "mainstream to the max" " my kid really doesn't "need" this or that approach. Under that approach you really don't get a lot of nudges towards more specialized stuff. Like you wouldn't even get the thinking that " Oh let's send our kid to an oral deaf camp" or other type of enrichment. It's basicly All Hearing World Stuff. ....But there are dhh kids who as teens and young adults who are learning ASL as a second language, and going to deaf camp or even deaf school ....and of course they're still dealing with the same old stuff (socially and emotionally) ...which is why you see a lot of dhh kids in therapy complaining that they don't fit in and everything like that. I think part of it too, is that mainstream teachers may know about the resources and things out there, but they're afraid to share the info and resources b/c of encountering parents who might overreact and insist that "their kid doesn't NEED this or that." If you ask teachers, they'll say they're seeing the same exact things regarding socialization and not fitting in etc.
I'm not saying that it's impossible for a kid to do really well and not "need" ASL or deaf stuff.... There are some kids who attend oral schools or oral programs who do really well in all areas. ....
And then again I've seen really strong acheivers go to Deaf camp, thinking " Oh I don't need this or that".....they take the plunge and then discover that it's a community where they fit in and belong.......
 
I thought the panic and angst was that parents weren't choosing ASL right off the bat, not that kids weren't learning ASL at ALL. ......But actually yes. Most parents who chose oral only seem to do it under a kneejerk "mainstream to the max" " my kid really doesn't "need" this or that approach. Under that approach you really don't get a lot of nudges towards more specialized stuff. Like you wouldn't even get the thinking that " Oh let's send our kid to an oral deaf camp" or other type of enrichment. It's basicly All Hearing World Stuff. ....But there are dhh kids who as teens and young adults who are learning ASL as a second language, and going to deaf camp or even deaf school ....and of course they're still dealing with the same old stuff (socially and emotionally) ...which is why you see a lot of dhh kids in therapy complaining that they don't fit in and everything like that. I think part of it too, is that mainstream teachers may know about the resources and things out there, but they're afraid to share the info and resources ...
No. It's fear and sadness from a whole world dying. The stuff you spout is some romanticized hearie version of what they want the deaf world to be. It isn't.
 
I am just a few years younger that our Dr. Phil and admit that is what I grew up with as well. It still feels weird to call someone that hears some "deaf" rather than hard of hearing.

I think that's because the answer, one way or the other is attitudinal, generally speaking......
 
I disagree. A separate, shared language can be a part of a culture and a cultural identity, but it's not a requirement for all cultures….
The reason a shared language is important to a cultural identity is that members of the community can communicate horizontally (with current members) and vertically (passing along the culture to the next generation).

Writing notes back and forth, for the most part, is not the same as in-depth, daily communicating. That's more like a survival skill for brief, intermitent interactions across cultural lines. Similar to hearing people of two different language cultures trying to be understood using gestures and pantomime. It might get you thru in the short run but it would hardly be considered communication. (Think of an English-only American in Paris--pantomime might find you a toilet or restaurant but it won't get you a long-term relationship with a native Parisian.)
 
Sociologically as well as in general, shared language - and all that implies - is one of the most significant parts of culture - possibly the most important aspect. Becomes even more significant if the language and/or cultural group is small or shrinking.

Posts #38 and 52 - again, part of a cultural <therefore relating to attitude as mentioned> sense...Hearing versus Deaf..... <purposely capitalized>
 
No. It's fear and sadness from a whole world dying. The stuff you spout is some romanticized hearie version of what they want the deaf world to be. It isn't.

On the other hand, the kids aren't magically being assimulated into the hearing world. There are some kids who do very well ... but a lot of them tend to be on the edges of the mainstream b/c they or their parents still believe the myths that only hardcore deaf people are accepted into the Deaf community. You do realize there are edges to the "mainstream" right? Not all kids who never enter the Deaf community magically assimulate into the hearing world....and as a matter of fact, if you pick up the carefully manicured landscaped "rock" of being immersed in the hearing world, often you'll find a lot of not exactly savory things.....The same things are still going on. ... Most of the kids who are in the mainstream are just faking it very well. I mean if what you were saying was correct, dhh people would have sky high employment rates, and no issues with social emotional and other issues with "fitting in"
And actually there are still a lot of kids with delays... No, they're not as severe as say the old days when kids were learning to say "horse" in 1st grade. Otherwise you wouldn't have a lot of serious discussion about language deprivation syndrome. But even in the cases where they are doing OK, they're still in lower level English, they're still struggling socially and have lower verbal IQs, and generally lag behind hearing children.
And actually no, it's not some romantizied hearie version of the deaf world. Very few dhh kids get a choice in the first place about which language, tools etc to use b/c we do live in an incredibly ableist world..... There are some kids who do get the choice of what tools to use and what experiances they want to have......But very few get the choice...... You really can't say a person choses to live in the hearing world, when they weren't even given the choice in the first place...... Besides, even with the kids who do very well in the mainstream, or orally adding a Deaf experiance can be amazing. I know of at least two very high functioning dhh kids who you would THINK would assimulate into the hearing world. Instead they were sent to deaf camp....and it changed their lives, and they discovered something that was missing, and that they actually fit in and thrived in a way that they didn't in the hearing world.
 
The reason a shared language is important to a cultural identity is that members of the community can communicate horizontally (with current members) and vertically (passing along the culture to the next generation).

Writing notes back and forth, for the most part, is not the same as in-depth, daily communicating. That's more like a survival skill for brief, intermitent interactions across cultural lines. Similar to hearing people of two different language cultures trying to be understood using gestures and pantomime. It might get you thru in the short run but it would hardly be considered communication. (Think of an English-only American in Paris--pantomime might find you a toilet or restaurant but it won't get you a long-term relationship with a native Parisian.)
It also doesn't allow a person to go deeper. With speech/spoken language an early/from birth dhh person can get on somewhat.......but b/c visual processing is always a strengh, dhh as kids people can thrive with ASL and other strongly visual methods, in a way they cannot with exclusively depending on a hearing aid or a CI.
 
On the other hand, the kids aren't magically being assimulated into the hearing world. There are some kids who do very well ... but a lot of them tend to be on the edges of the mainstream b/c they or their parents still believe the myths that only hardcore deaf people are accepted into the Deaf community. You do realize there are edges to the "mainstream" right? Not all kids who never enter the Deaf community magically assimulate into the hearing world....and as a matter of fact, if you pick up the carefully manicured landscaped "rock" of being immersed in the hearing world, often you'll find a lot of not exactly savory things.....The same things are still going on. ... Most of the kids who are in the mainstream are just faking it very well. I mean if what you were saying was correct, dhh people would have sky high employment rates, and no issues with social emotional and other issues with "fitting in"
And actually there are still a lot of kids with delays... No, they're not as severe as say the old days when kids were learning to say "horse" in 1st grade. Otherwise you wouldn't have a lot of serious discussion about language deprivation syndrome. But even in the cases where they are doing OK, they're still in lower level English, they're still struggling socially and have lower verbal IQs, and generally lag behind hearing children.
And actually no, it's not some romantizied hearie version of the deaf world. Very few dhh kids get a choice in the first place about which language, tools etc to use b/c we do live in an incredibly ableist world..... There are some kids who do get the choice of what tools to use and what experiances they want to have......But very few get the choice...... You really can't say a person choses to live in the hearing world, when they weren't even given the choice in the first place...... Besides, even with the kids who do very well in the mainstream, or orally adding a Deaf experiance can be amazing. I know of at least two very high functioning dhh kids who you would THINK would assimulate into the hearing world. Instead they were sent to deaf camp....and it changed their lives, and they discovered something that was missing, and that they actually fit in and thrived in a way that they didn't in the hearing world.

What in the world are you talking about? This bears no significance to my comment, and it's like you copied and pasted some weird rhetoric from somebody's blog that impresses you..
 
What in the world are you talking about? This bears no significance to my comment, and it's like you copied and pasted some weird rhetoric from somebody's blog that impresses you..

Bottesisni, I think it might be your comment that is confusing. I don't really understand what you meant in your reply to Deafydike. What did you mean to comment on?
 
Bottesisni, I think it might be your comment that is confusing. I don't really understand what you meant in your reply to Deafydike. What did you mean to comment on?

Unfortunately it would be too rude and hurtful if I was blunt.
 
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