who do you think that really killed Jesus?

[jillio]

I could agree with that, I just never knew how bad Jesus was treated until I saw the movie--Passion of Christ for the first time.

Yes, I found the movie to be very disturbing.

 

[Reba]

You are the one who obsessed with race, not me.

Huh? What a bizarre statement. I didn't even bring up "race" in this topic. You're the one who did. Race has nothing to do with the subject. For some weird reason you are afraid to recognize the Jews as people with their own religious leaders, and so you want to call them "Romans". That is tampering with historical facts at its worst.

You are the one who mentioned We shouldn't tamper with the facts just to fit today's political correctness. in first place.

That's right. One shouldn't play with the facts just to fit one's "feelings" of today.

This is a harmless, general and simple question of me over that political correctness then?

Simple is right. Also, irrelevant and off-track. Let's stay on topic please.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Huh? What a bizarre statement. I didn't even bring up "race" in this topic. You're the one who did. Race has nothing to do with the subject. For some weird reason you are afraid to recognize the Jews as people with their own religious leaders, and so you want to call them "Romans". That is tampering with historical facts at its worst.


That's right. One shouldn't play with the facts just to fit one's "feelings" of today.


Simple is right. Also, irrelevant and off-track. Let's stay on topic please.

Yes, you brought up "race" to point "Jewish" and then blame Jewish Relgious leaders for killed Jesus which I disagreed to. Jesus was killed by Roman authorities, period.

You still ignored my correction post toward Cheri´s post #61. I corrected my error is Roman´s Relgious leaders, NOT Roman Relgoius leaders and then provided the links "Do Jews kill Jesus?" Unfortunlately, the links I provided are being ignored and still accused Jew for killed Jesus because Relgious leaders were Jewish... :roll: No matter what kind of race, Reglious leaders have but they choose to work for Rome.

Due all of my respect, I don´t want to disrespect and accuse any different beliefs when they said it´s not true or whatever. All what I said in general way, who work for country´s law/rule mean is country´s authorities, period.

I would say that you made a false statement toward me IF you continue to accuse me for call Roman Relgious leader to ignore my correction post toward Cheri #61.

I stand what I am saying Roman´s Relgious leaders or Relgious leaders work under Roman authorities instead of point Relgious leader´s race and then blame Jews for killed Jesus. Blame Jews for killed Jesus because Relgious leaders are jewish is a feeble excuse. Blame Roman authorities, not race.

I do not see anything that we made :topic: here but talked about who killed Jesus where related this thread here. Some of you beleive jews killed Jesus which I doesn´t. I beleive Roman authorities killed Jesus.

 

[GarnetTigerMom]

It a good debates, We know the romans was ordered to killed Jesus. So remember the movie that the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. Then the Pharisees went out and began to plot with the Herodians how they might kill Jesus. The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death.

The chief priests and the teachers of the law heard this and began looking for a way to kill him, for they feared him, because the whole crowd was amazed by Jesus teaching and have many followers. If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation." So, The Sanhedrin had a working relationship with Rome even though it was an oppressive power.
So I think that is possible they feel threaten by Jesus teaching and having more power with his followers, they fear him.

 

[GarnetTigerMom]

Sometimes, yes.


Are you talking about this topic or about a job application?


I'm lost. What does this have to do with the topic? Why are you so obsessed with race?

I don't think she means by race. She speaking of culture in the history. Why have Jews been blamed for the death of Jesus? There are several reasons, all having to do with power politics and little to do with facts. Jesus was crucified for sedition that is rebellion against Rome. Anyone who laid claim to the Jewish throne (there were many) got the same treatment.

Much ignored is the Temple high priest was an appointee of the Romans put there to protect Roman interests. The Sadducees represented the rich and the powerful and were hated by the general population suffering under crushing taxes from both Rome and the Temple. The center of religious life was the synagogue, not the Temple as is still that way today.

So my question I had in mind was Jesus crucified for breaking the law of the Hebrews, by healing the sick and comforting the poor on the Sabbath. Is this the source of anti-Semitism?

So really I think lot had to do with the politics with jews high priestes and the romans working together for the power. It always about power.So they have the power to destory anything they touched.

 

[jazzy]

What's wrong with the fact that I watched the movie "Passion of Christ" Anyone is allow to watch that movie if they wishes to. Beside the bible I read stated everything that Passion of Christ had stated.

Beside I never stated that you were not saved for being a Catholic. If you are here to cause trouble, I would be greatly appreciated if you kindly refrain from posting on this thread.

Sure I will keep this to myself but I have to prepare to defend myself against those keep saying I am not saved because of my faith. U once told not too long ago that Catholic people are not saved that scare me because it reminds me of them believe what they were told by them by u know religion leaders. Okay. Sure u can watch this movie and I have no problem with it but the fact I know couple of my strong christian friends do not watch this movie because it came from Catholic as Jillo and Liebig said in one of their post.

 

[jazzy]

Catholics are not saved? How so?

This is what consevative christians believe and told me many time. I went to bible study one night with my friend because they were only one place to offer to teach deaf adults about bible. My friend and I were shocked when they told us Cathlics are not saved and will be burned in hell. What scares me more that they were do what they were taught and not go soul searching and find the truth answer themselves without being controlled by their peer.

 

[GarnetTigerMom]

This is what consevative christians believe and told me many time. I went to bible study one night with my friend because they were only one place to offer to teach deaf adults about bible. My friend and I were shocked when they told us Cathlics are not saved and will be burned in hell. What scares me more that they were do what they were taught and not go soul searching and find the truth answer themselves without being controlled by their peer.

I believe the catholic churches make too many stupid rules since I grew up in catholic church and they put too many rules that is not related to the bible history. I don't believe that the catholic church have the right to make any judgement calls on people. I would rather let GOD decided that judgment, not the catholic church people or any other churches.

 

[shel90]

This is what consevative christians believe and told me many time. I went to bible study one night with my friend because they were only one place to offer to teach deaf adults about bible. My friend and I were shocked when they told us Cathlics are not saved and will be burned in hell. What scares me more that they were do what they were taught and not go soul searching and find the truth answer themselves without being controlled by their peer.

That's terrible.

I dont understand why people of a certain religion tell others who have a different religion things like that. That is

 

[jazzy]

Oh boy, okay We all know Mel Gibson does his research about historical events that used lot of bloody violance in the movie called the "Passion of Christ" The movie, of course, is The Passion of the Christ, Mel Gibson's version of Jesus' final hours on earth seen by more than 30 million people. It was a good movie but very graphic details that scared me out of my wit. When the Roman Catholics among them hear the priest recite the verse from Isaiah—"He was wounded for our transgressions ... by his stripes we are healed"—they may remember that it was with those words that Gibson commenced his reimagining of the scourging of Jesus. When many Lutherans engage in the meditative adoration of the Cross and when congregants at even the least liturgical Protestant churches sing, "Let the water and the blood/ From Thy wounded side which flowed/ Be of sin the double cure," they too may more vividly imagine the Cross and the blood. And they all may be more inclined to ponder a question whose answer at first seems as though it should be as simple as "Jesus loves me, this I know" but in fact has divided theologians and clergy for centuries, with no end in sight: Why did Christ die?

That is, not who (on earth) killed him or even exactly how much he suffered. But what was the cosmic reason for his agony? What is its purpose, its divine calculus? How precisely does his death, usually referred to in this context as the atonement, lead to the salvation of humanity? Those are the questions that makes it more interesting to me when I watched his movie made me think more about the movie.

So in my view is atonement "is the centerpiece of Christianity, and it's what distinguishes it from all other religions, a religious historian who has written a book about one of the topic's great medieval interpreters. Without at least an intuitive comprehension of atonement, a believer stands little chance of making sense of the faith's promises of redemption and eternal life.

U blew me away with this one. Why did Christ die? It is everyone guessing, I think but my guessing is not right or wrong just a ponder till next step then my thinking may change. My personal belief, Christ is perfect in every way, body( his blood is pure), soul and mind, it does not die. Our body we are not connect to Christ therefore we the body, soul and mind are corrputed and that is reason why we all are going to die to some kind of disease, accidental deaths, murdered, and goes on. As for Christ, He was born into a man and He was too perfect to be a man which He would have live here on earth forever. IHMO. therefore He has to die, too sad that He had to be tortured and be killed. It was painful to watch this movie and read bible and go thru every Easter to deal with His death, over again and again.

But some people forgot Christ was raised from death 3 days later and went to heaven then came back here to stay 40 more days.Then He ascended into heaven and He send Holy Spirit to live with us. Honestly I do not think Christ ever really die, He simple departed human body and came back to retrieve it 3 days later. I do believe Jesus Christ is God and He has showed me His way as He had done to anyone in different way. He was a man once and went thru all process that we all have to go thru this so He shares His memories with us.
maybe it does not answer right to those ponder u put this thread. I thank u for respond to me.

 

[jazzy]

I believe the catholic churches make too many stupid rules since I grew up in catholic church and they put too many rules that is not related to the bible history. I don't believe that the catholic church have the right to make any judgement calls on people. I would rather let GOD decided that judgment, not the catholic church people or any other churches.

Catholic Chruch never judge me, that is one reason why I stay there. I get more judge from different religions than I ever been judged. sorry many people did not see this way. What rules u were talking about? I have no idea what u mean by that? My mother grew up in Bapitst church and she was told by a pastore she would be burn in hell if she cut her hair short. Rules is everywhere.

Holy Spirit protects all of His churches.

 

[jazzy]

That's terrible.

I dont understand why people of a certain religion tell others who have a different religion things like that. That is

Yes this is what it scares me.

 

[GarnetTigerMom]

Catholic Chruch never judge me, that is one reason why I stay there. I get more judge from different religions than I ever been judged. sorry many people did not see this way. What rules u were talking about? I have no idea what u mean by that? My mother grew up in Bapitst church and she was told by a pastore she would be burn in hell if she cut her hair short. Rules is everywhere.

Holy Spirit protects all of His churches.

I mean speaking of any churches such a catholic rules talk about cut your hair cut get burn in hell for it, or taking birth control burn in hell for it, or living with a man and not married burn in hell for that, u know. so many rules like that is really not needed because that not related to learning about the bible. I seen enough rules from any chruches I went to that telling me that do not wear pants to chruch must wear a dress. I went huh,, so what I will wear whatever I want, I will cut my hair short if I want to. They are not the boss of me. Boy they go too far sometimes.

 

[Reba]

Yes, you brought up "race" to point "Jewish" and then blame Jewish Relgious leaders for killed Jesus which I disagreed to. Jesus was killed by Roman authorities, period.

I guess you missed this post:

http://www.alldeaf.com/902105-post8.html

You still ignored my correction post toward Cheri´s post #61. I corrected my error is Roman´s Relgious leaders, NOT Roman Relgoius leaders and then provided the links "Do Jews kill Jesus?"

The religious leaders were neither Roman nor Roman's, so it doesn't matter. The religious leaders were Jews, and the political leaders were Romans.

Unfortunlately, the links I provided are being ignored and still accused Jew for killed Jesus because Relgious leaders were Jewish... :roll: No matter what kind of race, Reglious leaders have but they choose to work for Rome.

I didn't accuse anyone for killing Jesus. We're all guilty (and that includes me). It has nothing to do with race. (BTW, "Roman" is not a "race".)

A subjugated group of people who cooperate with their masters in order to gain material favor or status are called collaborators. An example of that situation was during WWII in France when the Germans took over. The French collaborators were called some really bad names by the French resistance but they were still French people nonetheless. They didn't become "German" people just because they were controlled by the Germans.

...I would say that you made a false statement toward me IF you continue to accuse me for call Roman Relgious leader to ignore my correction post toward Cheri #61.

If you aren't calling the Jewish religious leaders "Roman" than I accept that correction.

I stand what I am saying Roman´s Relgious leaders or Relgious leaders work under Roman authorities

So, you are saying that the Jewish religious leaders were under the political governing control of the Roman authorities, correct?

instead of point Relgious leader´s race and then blame Jews for killed Jesus. Blame Jews for killed Jesus because Relgious leaders are jewish is a feeble excuse. Blame Roman authorities, not race.

It has nothing to do with race, and I'm not blaming any of them.

 

[Reba]

...I do not see anything that we made :topic: here but talked about who killed Jesus where related this thread here....

Explain to me how your post #63 was on topic.

You posted:

"Is it discrimination if we have to say or fill the information out which race we have?"

 

[Reba]

I wasn't going to reply to the post because it was addressed to Cheri. But you stated that I was ignoring this post, so I guess you expect me to comment on it. OK.

I realized that I should say: "Roman's religious leaders" Relgious leaders in my previous post instead of Roman Relgious leaders because they work for Roman authorities, no matter which race they have.

Not that I aviod the truth but I respect different beliefs. Jewish would disagree with you if they read your posts here... ??? See 2 links yourself why I can't say anything to name which races relgious leaders have... but work for Roman authorities = Roman's Relgious leaders.

OK. The Jewish religious leaders were under the political authority of the Roman government. But they still weren't Roman or Roman's religious leaders. They were Jews, and they would be extremely offended to be called Roman or Roman's.

Did Jews Kill Jesus?
Jews Killed Christ?

Assuming that he really was crucified at all, the gospels show that he was crucified (not a Jewish, but a Roman punishment reserved exclusively for those guilty of crimes against the empire), in accordance with Roman (not Jewish) laws, by Romans (not Jews), for breaking a Roman (not Jewish) law forbidding sedition against the Roman Empire.

I'm not "ignoring" your above link. I don't agree with the above link. (More about its author at Homepage for Lewis Loflin ) It begins with the phrase, "Assuming that he really was crucified at all." That proves to me that it's a skeptical source. Also, it says nothing about Roman/Roman's religious leaders. It actually states that the Romans and Jews were very separate.

 

[Reba]

Yes, you brought up "race" to point "Jewish" and then blame Jewish Relgious leaders for killed Jesus which I disagreed to. Jesus was killed by Roman authorities, period.

Maybe you missed my posts at #45 and #46.

Who betrayed Jesus to the soldiers?

Judas, one of Jesus' 12 apostles, betrayed Him to the soldiers. (Mark 14:43-52; Mat. 26:47-56; Luke 22:47-53; John 18:2-12)

Who paid Judas for this betrayal?

The chief priests and Pharisees. (Mark 14:10-11; Mat. 26:14-16; Luke 22:3-6)

Who were the chief priests and Pharisees?

They were religious leaders of the Jews.

Who judged Jesus?

Jesus was first questioned by Annas, the former high priest of the Jews, and then Caiaphas, high priest of the Jews. (John 18:12-23) (mark 14:53, 55-65; Mat. 26:57, 59-68; Luke 22:54, 63-65; John 18:24)

What did they accuse Jesus of doing?

The priests accused Jesus of committing blasphemy. (same references above)

Who officially condemned Jesus?

The members of the Sanhedrin. (Mark 15:1; Mat. 27:1; Luke 22:66-71)

Who were they?

They were the chief priests, elders, and scribes of the Jews; that is, the Jewish religious leaders.

Then what happened?

Jesus was bound and taken to Pontius Pilate. (Mark 15:1-5; Mat. 27:2, 11-14; Luke 23:1-5; John 18:28-38)

Pilate did not judge Jesus for blasphemy. Pilate was a political leader, not a religious leader.

Pilate had the government authority to make the final decision of execution. He allowed the people one last chance to save Jesus from that judgment. The people chose to free Barabbas instead of Jesus. (Mark 15:6-15; Mat. 27:15-26; Luke 23:13-25; John 18:39-19:16)

Pilate, the Roman governor, surrendered to the will of the Jewish people in the crowd.

Who physically abused and beat Jesus?

The Roman soldiers. (Mark 15:16-19; Mat. 27:27-30)

Who led Jesus to the crucifixion site, and put Him on the cross?

The Roman soldiers. (Mark 15:20-23; Mat. 27:31-34; Luke 23:26-33; John 19:16-17)

Who mocked Jesus on the cross?

The chief priests, scribes, elders, rulers, soldiers, and people. (Mark 15:24-32; Mat. 27:35-44; Luke 23:33-43; John 19:18-27)

You can check the Bible references that are included. That is not pointing any fingers or blame at Jews. It shows that everyone had a part in the death of Jesus.

 

[Cheri]

but Mel Gibson is a catholic. He and his wife Roblyn produced 7 children together and raise their children with their own belief. He made film what he know and beleive to. This is catholic historical movie.

And what is your point exactly Liebling? Who cares what religious this movie is based on. Anyone can watch this movie if they wishes to.

 

[Cheri]

Sure I will keep this to myself but I have to prepare to defend myself against those keep saying I am not saved because of my faith. U once told not too long ago that Catholic people are not saved that scare me because it reminds me of them believe what they were told by them by u know religion leaders. Okay. Sure u can watch this movie and I have no problem with it but the fact I know couple of my strong christian friends do not watch this movie because it came from Catholic as Jillo and Liebig said in one of their post.

Since you brought it up twice, prove it that I actually said that, provide the link.

 

[Angel]

Who cares if Mel Gibson is Catholic or Christian or whatever, it has nothing to do with Mel Gibson or what the topic is about, the whole point is..... this movie IS based on the biblical accounts of Jesus and focuses on his last twelve hours of His suffering and death.