What do you suppose is main reason of problem with English..

Liebling:-))) said:
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Ich muß einkaufen gehen - I must to shopping go (Translation: I have to go to the shopping).
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In English we would say, "I have to go shopping," or "I must go shopping."
 
Hearing people does not talk or write like that.
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Correction.....some do talk like that! Like people who speak pideon/Creole or whatever.....
 
>>>Correction.....some do talk like that! Like people who speak pideon/Creole or whatever.....<<<

maybe, but that is not proper English and as an immigrant I can assure you that many people who just begin to learn English speak like that but that improves with time.


Eventually almost all of them speak and writes correctly. Some not but that's the key word- not correct.

I still believe learning proper English along with ALS would be only to the deaf's advantage.

Fuzzy
 
To express oneself in simple past tense:

I bought a new car.
Ich kaufte ein neues Auto.

In this case, both English and German are exactly alike.
I just was using past participle to demonstrate a point.
 
Audiofuzzy, WRONG....Pidgeon/Creole is a dialect of English like spoken in the Carribbeans or in Africa!
 
oh, I see.. but then, it's like an ASL or any foreign language, isn't it?

They most likely wouldn't be able to communicate well with hearing English here, do you suppose..?

Fuzzy
 
BTW I admire anyway who is able to understand English grammar.
It's beyond me.. lol..

Fuzzy
 
kuifje75 said:
Actually, "I have bought" is correct. I just checked my dictionary. It's called past participe.

Here is the link, in case there is a need for a refreshment course.
http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/past-participle.html
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/irregular-verbs/index.php
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Yes, I know that is a past participle but in that particular example it would not be used in that sentence structure. You could say, "In the past, I have bought used cars but yesterday I bought a new car."

In your example, you used the past participle form in a present perfect structure but your sentence used the word "yesterday". Present perfect:

FORMATION: 'HAVE' + Past Participle
USE:
1/ For unfinished past actions.

eg: I've worked here for four years.

2/ For past actions when the time is not specified.

eg: Have you ever been to Rome?

3/ When a past action is relevant now.

eg: I've missed my flight.

eg: She's broken her leg and cannot go on holiday next week.

http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/present-perfect.html
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but then, it's like an ASL or any foreign language, isn't it?
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Nope, not exactly...it's a DIALECT...like people in creole would say stuff like "I bin go store for buy shirt" almot like it's a simplified form of English or something.
 
Reba said:
Yes, I know that is a past participle but in that particular example it would not be used in that sentence structure. You could say, "In the past, I have bought used cars but yesterday I bought a new car."

In your example, you used the past participle form in a present perfect structure but your sentence used the word "yesterday". Present perfect:
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:-o I learned something new! I spoke with my colleague and he explained that past participle is used for INDEFINITE time periods. When using defined time periods, then don't use past participle. Thats news to me! Thanks for enlightening me, cos I was doing this all the time in the past. I guess my learning German did confuse me in a few ways, and this is exactly how knowing ASL can confuse a deaf person when using English!
 
kuifje75 said:
:-o I learned something new! I spoke with my colleague and he explained that past participle is used for INDEFINITE time periods. When using defined time periods, then don't use past participle. Thats news to me! Thanks for enlightening me, cos I was doing this all the time in the past. I guess my learning German did confuse me in a few ways, and this is exactly how knowing ASL can confuse a deaf person when using English!
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Yeah, it's same with me, too when I translate into English from German. German and English grammars are total different. Germans use "haben"/"muß" (have/must) in those grammar alot.
 
Reba said:
In English we would say, "I have to go shopping," or "I must go shopping."
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Thank you for correction. :thumb:

German and English grammars are total different. Like what K75 says that translate those grammars confuse us sometimes.
 
Like I said, English is tricky. ;) Even the experts sometimes disagree on the rules. God bless anyone who can learn English as a second language.
 
The rules are also changing, too.

I believe English is also devolving, as exemplified by the growing popularity of slang and ebonics.
 
cental34 said:
:werd:


You're basically saying "deaf people need to learn English if they're going to communicate with us hearing people." "Bad English" is not a problem with the deaf community, as it appears you are trying to make it. When communicating with hearing people, it is not fair to expect the deaf person to be completely familiar with all the grammatical rules of English. As hearing people, we use the complete same set of syntax and grammatical rules and for speaking and writing, If we were expected to switch syntaxes when changing forms of communication, do you think others would expect perfection from us?
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I have to disagree with you. It's really not about forcing anyone to conform. It's about having the skills to have as many opportunities as possible in life. I have 3 hearing children and 1 deaf child. I reinforce the need to be a good writer with my hearing children just as much as my deaf child. Being able to write well helps you in all aspects of life, no matter what career you choose.
 
it is not fair to expect the deaf person to be completely familiar with all the grammatical rules of English.
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Well I come to the conclusion that if you are born in English speaking country it is prefectly fair to expect you or anyone else for that matter to be familiar with grammatical rules of English, and since it includes everyone it includes ASL deaf also, doesn't it?
After all, how well do you suppose may a deaf person without a good knowledge of a language -any language- succeed in a world that is significantly predominated by hearing people?

Suppose you want to work as an MD- how are you going to communicate with people who hear? You can't expect a patient to start learning ASL grammar just to be able to see you?
Or, a PrincessTabu gave me an idea- maybe you want to write a book- who's gonna read it written in ASL grammar? I know I wouldn't understand so I wouldn't even want to..
Fuzzy
 
PrincessTabu said:
I have to disagree with you. It's really not about forcing anyone to conform. It's about having the skills to have as many opportunities as possible in life. I have 3 hearing children and 1 deaf child. I reinforce the need to be a good writer with my hearing children just as much as my deaf child. Being able to write well helps you in all aspects of life, no matter what career you choose.
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:gpost:
 
PrincessTabu said:
I have to disagree with you. It's really not about forcing anyone to conform. It's about having the skills to have as many opportunities as possible in life. I have 3 hearing children and 1 deaf child. I reinforce the need to be a good writer with my hearing children just as much as my deaf child. Being able to write well helps you in all aspects of life, no matter what career you choose.
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Good point :)
 
It Just Makes Sense

Undoubtedly, literacy is an issue, for some deaf and some hearing people.

The paramount difference, between deaf/hearing, when aquiring language,
imo, is that language is delivered phonetically to hearing children.

What the hearing child is seeing on the lips of the person, matches what they are hearing. This is definately not the case with sign.

The only system, imo, that supports lip reading for deaf children, is Cued Speech. Sounds are made visible, which then enables the deaf child to gain an understanding of the spoken language. Learning language so that there is an internal dialogue occurring, similiar to their hearing peers.


Establishing communication ASAP is absolutely necessary with a deaf child. CS is relatively easy to learn (as little as 16 hrs). Why delay language access within the family unit? Iclusion can result with CS at home with the family. CS just makes sense.
 
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