Trying to Understand the Deaf

Brandolyn

Brandolyn

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Hello...

I have some questions I was hoping some of you would be kind enough to answer. I am just getting introduced to the deaf community. I am learning ASL and reading about deaf culture. In my first few weeks of study I have made some observations and I hope to understand them better. Thanks in to those who reply!! :ty:

First, I have learned that many deaf people do not want to hear. Not only do they not want to hear, but they are proudly non-hearing much like gays are proud of their homosexuality and blacks are proud of their race. Do I have this right?

Second, I have read where deaf people have referred to hearing people as audists. That is a new term to me and it seems, at least in the context in which I've read it, that is not a positive term. For example, one person was lamenting about how a customer service agent was addressing his 14-year-old daughter instead of him and he said, "I won't take that audist's crap!" Perhaps it was just that one post, but it sounds like under the surface there is a bit of hostility toward the hearing. Is that true? If so, can some of you help me understand the genesis of this hostility?

Finally, the third really has to do with the second. I also have noticed there seems to be a frustration when hearing people don't understand that deaf people don't want to be 'fixed'. For example, several people have mentioned frustration over being told, "I'll pray for you." Perhaps it is because deaf people encounter this all the time I just have no idea, which is why I'm asking! :lol:

Thanks so much again for taking time to read and respond to this. I was nervous posting this because I don't want to seem offensive...I'm not trying to be at all!! :) I'm just curious and I don't have anyone I can ask. Have a good day!!
 
I think you're mistaking people being genuinely happy with themselves and who they are with something else. You seem to think there is something wrong with being proud of being D/deaf, I'm curious why that is?

Secondly, deaf people can audists too. It's an attitude and a train of opinions about D/deaf people that isn't exclusive to hearing individuals. I think you should google for more information about audism.

Thirdly, you're implying that there is something to be fixed. Why? Give me a good reason why someone who is deaf shouldn't be happy with how they were made. Would you walk over to a person of a different race and tell them you are going to pray for them to healed and somehow magically become the same race as you because it's better (in your mind)?

If my replies come off blunt and snarky, I'm sorry, I don't intend for them to be. I realize that you're just trying to understand, but (I'm assuming you're hearing) first you need to get past that part where you think there is something wrong with being D/deaf or HOH before you can even began to understand.
 
Well...

I'm proud to be deaf just as I'm proud to be Canadian and proud to be a design student and proud to be Sunshine A______. it's part of who I am. It makes me who I am. If I were a hearie, I'd be a totally different person. Why shouldn't I be proud of who I am? I work hard to be the best person I can. I don't hurt others, I work hard, I study hard, I treat others well, I am DEAF. Yeah!!!!!

Audist is used like similar terms sexist or ageist to mean thinking that hearing is somehow inherently superior to non-hearing. It isn't.

I agree with OIC about the third bit, but I want to add that not everyone believes in a WASPy type God. Being told someone will pray for you not only implies you need fusing but also imparts someone else's religion upon you.

We are Deaf. We are not spending every day struggling to be as happy as hearies and wishing that please oh please couldn't we just hear? Deaf is not bad! It's a fundamental part of us, and trying to "fix" it is kind of like trying to fix us. We are not broken.
 
I will only respond to your first question...

If you spend your entire life without a sensory input. Suddenly having that sense can be quite traumatic. Imagine for a moment if you never had a third eye. If I told you that you need to have a third eye implanted so you could see the world the way the rest of us normal 3 eye folks do. Would you feel that you somehow less of a person for not having that third eye? What if I told you the implant would not even work perfectly. It would be like using a crutch. Would you proceed with an invasive surgery just to have access to something you never had before?

Many of us spend our entire lives knowing only what our experiences allow us to know. We do not see being Deaf as a handicap. Rather we see it as a self identity. Some mistake this for a badge of honor ('I'm Deaf so there!!!'), when in reality it's pride in the fact that we stand up to the face of adversity every single day. I realize your ignorance is no fault of your own. I am pleased that you wish to learn more about deafness. I'm just not sure you are ready to see the whole picture.
 
Hi...thanks for replying. First, let me just make sure we are on the same page. I know nothing about being deaf, deaf people, or the deaf community. I am trying to learn, which is why I asked questions. I have formed no opinions whatsoever. You said, "You seem to think there is something wrong with being proud of being D/deaf, I'm curious why that is?" Well, you are wrong. I do not think there is something wrong with being proud of being deaf, or that there is something wrong with being deaf in the first place. Not at all. I've only noticed in my limited interaction that there is an intense pride associated with it, and that is interesting to me. Not being deaf and never have been around deaf people, I never gave it much thought. I've been ignorant to the plight of the deaf. Again, that is why I'm asking. (Post Script: 8/10/2011 at 4:14: The use of the word 'plight' here is because I recently watched a documentary on the history of the deaf in America. In that documentary, they said that Alexander Graham Bell wouldn't allow the deaf to use sign language in the schools. Instead, they forced kids to practice speaking for hours on end. One woman who was deaf said how horrible that was. It made me very sad for her - not sad because she was deaf but sad because it seemed almost cruel how she described it. In school we learn about the plight of the Native Americans and of African Americans, but I never learned this about deaf people. I never learned that AGB was such a jerk! That's why I used that word. Not because I think that being deaf itself is a plight.)

Secondly, you said, "... you're implying that there is something to be fixed. Why?" Can you please show me which comment I made that led you to this conclusion because never have I implied that. Never have I thought that. I have to admit I feel/have felt a little hostility from some on AD when I ask questions. I feel hostility in your response; you are being snarky and I don't understand why you felt the need to do that. I come to AD with a sincere heart to understand. That's all. There is no ill intent here, so I wonder why you felt the need to "put me in my place" for just asking some questions. I was not rude nor did I suggest hearing people were better than deaf people.

I think with myself and other hearing people who are uneducated in this area, we assume people would want to hear because so often hearing brings us joy - the sound of our baby cooing, the sizzle of a steak on the grill, the joy in laughter. We don't know any different. But, I'm learning that hearing people are limited. Our ability to hear may prevent those who don't educate themselves on the beauty and grace of the non-healing world from an eye-opening experience. I'm learning that being hearing and being deaf brings their own set of advantages, beauty, and amazing experiences. Neither is better or worse - they are just different.

I mentioned in my post I was nervous about posting this question because I did not want to offend, yet by the tone of your response I clearly have. Is it possible for you and other deaf people to accept that someone who is hearing has a genuine interest in understanding and does not want to be met with accusations of ill-intent (ie, you assume we want to be fixed, etc) and hostility? I hope so. Otherwise, how will we ever grow as individuals if when we ask questions with sincerity we are greeted with snarkiness? I hope you have a great day.

O*I*C said:
I think you're mistaking people being genuinely happy with themselves and who they are with something else. You seem to think there is something wrong with being proud of being D/deaf, I'm curious why that is?

Secondly, deaf people can audists too. It's an attitude and a train of opinions about D/deaf people that isn't exclusive to hearing individuals. I think you should google for more information about audism.

Thirdly, you're implying that there is something to be fixed. Why? Give me a good reason why someone who is deaf shouldn't be happy with how they were made. Would you walk over to a person of a different race and tell them you are going to pray for them to healed and somehow magically become the same race as you because it's better (in your mind)?

If my replies come off blunt and snarky, I'm sorry, I don't intend for them to be. I realize that you're just trying to understand, but (I'm assuming you're hearing) first you need to get past that part where you think there is something wrong with being D/deaf or HOH before you can even began to understand.
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Thanks you!! What a great way to put it!! It is who you are and therefore you are proud. Thank you very much. We are all shaped by our experiences. You put that in perspective for me. Thank you very much.

You said: "Audist is used like similar terms sexist or ageist to mean thinking that hearing is somehow inherently superior to non-hearing. It isn't." I did take the term audist is meant to be insulting and your response suggests I was not wrong to think that. That makes me sad. It feels like name-calling and that can be a wedge. It feels counter-productive to me.

I have to say I've heard from many deaf people (well, read in posts, actually) that they assume hearing people want to "fix" them. I guess that is based on their own experiences, so how can I dispute that. I don't want to fix the deaf. I don't think that way. So, just like the deaf don't want the hearing to assume they are unhappy with their deafness, I suppose I'm suggesting that as a hearing person, I don't want you to assume that all hearing people want to fix you. It's just not the case.

Thank you again for your candor. I appreciate it. What I've learned so far has been really interesting to me. I appreciate you taking the time to interact with me. I hope we can chat in the future! :)

sunny_signs said:
Well...

I'm proud to be deaf just as I'm proud to be Canadian and proud to be a design student and proud to be Sunshine A______. it's part of who I am. It makes me who I am. If I were a hearie, I'd be a totally different person. Why shouldn't I be proud of who I am? I work hard to be the best person I can. I don't hurt others, I work hard, I study hard, I treat others well, I am DEAF. Yeah!!!!!

Audist is used like similar terms sexist or ageist to mean thinking that hearing is somehow inherently superior to non-hearing. It isn't.

I agree with OIC about the third bit, but I want to add that not everyone believes in a WASPy type God. Being told someone will pray for you not only implies you need fusing but also imparts someone else's religion upon you.

We are Deaf. We are not spending every day struggling to be as happy as hearies and wishing that please oh please couldn't we just hear? Deaf is not bad! It's a fundamental part of us, and trying to "fix" it is kind of like trying to fix us. We are not broken.
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Brandolyn said:
Hi...thanks for replying. First, let me just make sure we are on the same page. I know nothing about being deaf, deaf people, or the deaf community. I am trying to learn, which is why I asked questions. I have formed no opinions whatsoever. You said, "You seem to think there is something wrong with being proud of being D/deaf, I'm curious why that is?" Well, you are wrong. I do not think there is something wrong with being proud of being deaf, or that there is something wrong with being deaf in the first place. Not at all. I've only noticed in my limited interaction that there is an intense pride associated with it, and that is interesting to me. Not being deaf and never have been around deaf people, I never gave it much thought. I've been ignorant to the plight of the deaf. Again, that is why I'm asking.

Secondly, you said, "... you're implying that there is something to be fixed. Why?" Can you please show me which comment I made that led you to this conclusion because never have I implied that. Never have I thought that. I have to admit I feel/have felt a little hostility from some on AD when I ask questions. I feel hostility in your response; you are being snarky and I don't understand why you felt the need to do that. I come to AD with a sincere heart to understand. That's all. There is no ill intent here, so I wonder why you felt the need to "put me in my place" for just asking some questions. I was not rude nor did I suggest hearing people were better than deaf people.

I think with myself and other hearing people who are uneducated in this area, we assume people would want to hear because so often hearing brings us joy - the sound of our baby cooing, the sizzle of a steak on the grill, the joy in laughter. We don't know any different. But, I'm learning that hearing people are limited. Our ability to hear may prevent those who don't educate themselves on the beauty and grace of the non-healing world from an eye-opening experience. I'm learning that being hearing and being deaf brings their own set of advantages, beauty, and amazing experiences. Neither is better or worse - they are just different.

I mentioned in my post I was nervous about posting this question because I did not want to offend, yet by the tone of your response I clearly have. Is it possible for you and other deaf people to accept that someone who is hearing has a genuine interest in understanding and does not want to be met with accusations of ill-intent (ie, you assume we want to be fixed, etc) and hostility? I hope so. Otherwise, how will we ever grow as individuals if when we ask questions with sincerity we are greeted with snarkiness? I hope you have a great day.
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Do you understand the meaning of the word "plight?"

That kind of wording is liable to bring hostile responses. If you read through this site, you will find that the questions you are posing have been asked over and over again.

So it's not hard to understand if you think about it how tired people can grow when this happens on an almost daily basis.
 
I was coming to comment on the use of the word plight too. *Facepalm*
 
Do you have any idea how many people try to use AllDeaf to learn what it like being deaf or HOH and how misinformed they're . If you really what to learn more how about trying to educate yourself before asking misinformed questions. If you going interview someone from another country , I would think you try to learn something about that person country before asking dumb question.
 
Brandolyn said:
Hello...

I have some questions I was hoping some of you would be kind enough to answer. I am just getting introduced to the deaf community. I am learning ASL and reading about deaf culture. In my first few weeks of study I have made some observations and I hope to understand them better. Thanks in to those who reply!! :ty:

First, I have learned that many deaf people do not want to hear. Not only do they not want to hear, but they are proudly non-hearing much like gays are proud of their homosexuality and blacks are proud of their race. Do I have this right?

This is correct. The cultural perspective of deafness is that the Deaf is as whole and perfect in themselves as the hearing are.

Second, I have read where deaf people have referred to hearing people as audists. That is a new term to me and it seems, at least in the context in which I've read it, that is not a positive term. For example, one person was lamenting about how a customer service agent was addressing his 14-year-old daughter instead of him and he said, "I won't take that audist's crap!" Perhaps it was just that one post, but it sounds like under the surface there is a bit of hostility toward the hearing. Is that true? If so, can some of you help me understand the genesis of this hostility?

Not all hearing people are audists. However, the hearing society in general contains very audist beliefs. It is, quite simply, a sociological fact. The term "audist" does not have to be a bad thing. It is only a negative when some get defensive and attribute a negative meaning to it. In and of itself, it is neither good not bad; it just is. It becomes a negative when others refuse to honestly look at audism and correct their own mistaken beliefs and practices that are audist in nature.

You are mistaking a refusal to accept patronizing and degrading treatment (that has it's foundation in an audist belief system) with hostility. Just because one defends oneself, and refuses to be publicly humiliated just because they are Deaf, doesn't mean they are hostile. It simply means that they are demanding the right to be treated with respect, in the same way a hearing person would be in the same situation.
Read a little deaf history. You will see why the conflicts are there.

Finally, the third really has to do with the second. I also have noticed there seems to be a frustration when hearing people don't understand that deaf people don't want to be 'fixed'. For example, several people have mentioned frustration over being told, "I'll pray for you." Perhaps it is because deaf people encounter this all the time I just have no idea, which is why I'm asking! :lol:

Again read a little deaf history, and you will understand why certain practices that scream superiority of the hearing are not tolerated nor appreciated by the Deaf.

Thanks so much again for taking time to read and respond to this. I was nervous posting this because I don't want to seem offensive...I'm not trying to be at all!! :) I'm just curious and I don't have anyone I can ask. Have a good day!!
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You are welcome. It is not offensive as long as you are using the opportunity as a learning experience.
 
multiple personalities, I see.
 
My suggestion, understanding the answer to your first question will lead you to a better foundation to understanding the answers the the rest of your questions. Ask yourself, "what experiences would I have if I were deaf?" Think about the day to day activities and what would be different. Plug your ears for a few days (one week?). just for some experience. Heck, go shopping to see what it's like to ask for assistance with something when you cannot hear. Then come back here and share your experience. I am willing to a wait a week for you! :ty:
 
Brandolyn said:
Hi...thanks for replying. First, let me just make sure we are on the same page. I know nothing about being deaf, deaf people, or the deaf community. I am trying to learn, which is why I asked questions. I have formed no opinions whatsoever. You said, "You seem to think there is something wrong with being proud of being D/deaf, I'm curious why that is?" Well, you are wrong. I do not think there is something wrong with being proud of being deaf, or that there is something wrong with being deaf in the first place. Not at all. I've only noticed in my limited interaction that there is an intense pride associated with it, and that is interesting to me. Not being deaf and never have been around deaf people, I never gave it much thought. I've been ignorant to the plight of the deaf. Again, that is why I'm asking.

Secondly, you said, "... you're implying that there is something to be fixed. Why?" Can you please show me which comment I made that led you to this conclusion because never have I implied that. Never have I thought that. I have to admit I feel/have felt a little hostility from some on AD when I ask questions. I feel hostility in your response; you are being snarky and I don't understand why you felt the need to do that. I come to AD with a sincere heart to understand. That's all. There is no ill intent here, so I wonder why you felt the need to "put me in my place" for just asking some questions. I was not rude nor did I suggest hearing people were better than deaf people.

I think with myself and other hearing people who are uneducated in this area, we assume people would want to hear because so often hearing brings us joy - the sound of our baby cooing, the sizzle of a steak on the grill, the joy in laughter. We don't know any different. But, I'm learning that hearing people are limited. Our ability to hear may prevent those who don't educate themselves on the beauty and grace of the non-healing world from an eye-opening experience. I'm learning that being hearing and being deaf brings their own set of advantages, beauty, and amazing experiences. Neither is better or worse - they are just different.

I mentioned in my post I was nervous about posting this question because I did not want to offend, yet by the tone of your response I clearly have. Is it possible for you and other deaf people to accept that someone who is hearing has a genuine interest in understanding and does not want to be met with accusations of ill-intent (ie, you assume we want to be fixed, etc) and hostility? I hope so. Otherwise, how will we ever grow as individuals if when we ask questions with sincerity we are greeted with snarkiness? I hope you have a great day.
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You think you have no preformed ideas, but I guarantee you, being raised as a hearing person, you have been inculturated with the same perspective and audist belief system that every other hearing person has.;)

If you want to truly learn, you will examine those inculturated beliefs, admit to the fact that they are incorrect and based on a hearing perspective of deafness rather than a Deaf perspective, and then seek to change what you find within. One who says they have no preconceived ideas is the one that is continually propogating audism without even recognizing the contribution they are making.
 
Bottesini said:
Do you understand the meaning of the word "plight?"

That kind of wording is liable to bring hostile responses. If you read through this site, you will find that the questions you are posing have been asked over and over again.

So it's not hard to understand if you think about it how tired people can grow when this happens on an almost daily basis.
Click to expand...

A perfect demonstration of the fact that this poster indeed has some peconceived and negative attitudes toward deafness.
 
jillio said:
... inculturated ...
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Now there's a word I know I have NEVER used in a sentence before... I'm going to work on fitting that in to an every day conversation this week! :wave:
 
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