Totalitarian in Ohio ?

I'm curious.

Has anyone actually read the Ohio Bill?

Has anyone actually read the national Patriot Act?
 
Vfr, Why do you hate the police? My family and relatives are working in Law Enforcement and US Military. They have a very hard job and the real ones that are abusing are the politicans.The police has to work and many times some law written up by a politican turns people angry and they mis-place the anger on the police and in turn the police have to fight and defend themselves while the politican stays home beside the fireplace with the wine, steak dinner and newspaper next to his dog having absoutely no clue and shuts his mind and emotions to the flood of angerous people and protesting people and thinks he is all powerful. Well one of these days the politican may suddenly find himself with no LEO or military protection. It happens in another countries. The another thing is that wheter it is a police state like you complain or a freedom democracy. ID is still required and needed for doucment and identification purposes. If you mis-spell or attempt to perjure yourself with the ID or paperwork when a real situation is going on. You will very well find yourself sitting in jail where it is nothing but a zoo. There are places where you can go fast like the race track. No need or no reason to break the law.
 
Heath said:
Vfr, Why do you hate the police? My family and relatives are working in Law Enforcement and US Military. They have a very hard job and the real ones that are abusing are the politicans.The police has to work and many times some law written up by a politican turns people angry and they mis-place the anger on the police and in turn the police have to fight and defend themselves while the politican stays home beside the fireplace with the wine, steak dinner and newspaper next to his dog having absoutely no clue and shuts his mind and emotions to the flood of angerous people and protesting people and thinks he is all powerful. Well one of these days the politican may suddenly find himself with no LEO or military protection. It happens in another countries. The another thing is that wheter it is a police state like you complain or a freedom democracy. ID is still required and needed for doucment and identification purposes. If you mis-spell or attempt to perjure yourself with the ID or paperwork when a real situation is going on. You will very well find yourself sitting in jail where it is nothing but a zoo. There are places where you can go fast like the race track. No need or no reason to break the law.
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I think I sort of understand your comment. The police do their job in order to protect that jerk Governor. He does not have to "worry" about - he just brushes you off and makes people stick with the police. Otherwise, they will beat people's head awhile the Governor enjoys drinking a wine. It is likely that he will lose his next election.

It is really important for us to preserve our democracy and our freedom. It is just too much to create that ridiculous law which tax us millions of dollars especially waste of time and waste of money.

Our country is almost broken because our government have spent billions of dollars to fight and re-build Iraq. (i.e. we have lost a few millions of customers who still cannot afford health insurance. Small businesses are struggling to pay the insurance for their employees.)

We already have a homeland security system, and it is not quite perfect yet. We go to a church and enjoy ourselves there, and we go out of the church being warned us about the stupid law that we do not need because we have our police and armies which provide us to protect our country.

I am afraid that you are being brainwashed from the news. I don't buy that story, and it is more important that we should increase our security at the international airports, international tolls (Canada and Mexico borders), and Coast Guards. That's where the terrorists enter these places. So far, nothing happens since 9/11. Reba - is that sound right, uh?
 
Reba said:
I know about the Nazis and Jews. Can you please show me where in the national Patriot Act that it would allow similar persecution to anyone?

Ok, here's a link I would like to show you. Save my typin' and explainin'. That is what I am tryin' to explain about the "parallel" in between USA & Nazis.

Ten Key Dangers of The Patriot Act That Every American Should Know
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chr..._the_us_patriot_act_the_nazi_enabling_act.htm

Nazis did that same thing to Jews in 1940's, but in a different way - because, durin' that time the Nazis do not have advanced technology just like we have today.

Again I ask, can you please show me the exact parts of the two acts to which you are referring? Please show me the parallel legislation.

For Nazis' : They house-searched, demanded the ID for their background ( Hitler felt that the Jews caused the war when he started it ie "terrorism"), removal the freedom of speech and the list goes on and on. The USA do the same as I've provided the link above to explain.

Please show me some proof of comparable orders.

So far, I have read opinions, not facts. I am not saying you are wrong. You might be right. But you have not presented any facts to support your opinion. Please show me the proof that convinced you, so I can decide for myself.
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There's another links to explain as well :
House Votes to Reauthorize USA Patriot Act
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=19305

Americans Surrenderin' Liberties: Shades of German History
http://enewsblog.com/Gazette/post/2005-09-18_17:06:29/

All these are what I believe will happen. It's all about the "Police/Military State" thing that I look at.
 
Heath said:
Okay , I have read everything without bias , clouded judgement or anything like that.

This one explains much more clearly and does not make an attempt to hide anything at all. It says what it says.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=107_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ056.107
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Reba have asked me where I stated about the "parallel" - both of Nazis' "Enablin' Act" and USA's "Patriot Act". I don't find anythin' in your link that I was tryin' to explain.

I know for one thing - if, I post somethin' that I believe will happen... somethin' that will go out of porportion or whateva the pic shows, they will call me :crazy: or baloney. I don't want that. I want to show somethin' that I am AWARE of what the pen could stroke to gain the President's power ( dictatorship ). For example : Do you believe that everythin' what the President Bush says about the "terrorism" that occurred in Sept. 11, 2001 ? Or, was it covered up by tryin' to force people to give away their freedom by makin' new laws ? I've been watchin' how this country ( USA ) changes by readin' news online and what the President Bush is doin' with our Constitution. Our Constitution is gettin' weak and weak than before. It's goin' to lose its foundation for our country ( USA ).
 
I doubt this bill is going to live EVEN if they were passed by council, and signed by IDIOT Mayor who thinks they got power over United States Constitution! Don't you all know the US constitution that protects Americans from unreasonable search and seizure WITHOUT Offical Court issued search warrant! Suppose this bill became law, signed by IDIOT Mayor, just watch! The United States Supreme court WILL say, it is in direct violation of USA constitution that protects the privacy of citizen against unreasonable search, they will KILL them just INSTANTLY! Whats more, Cleveland WILL stand to lose MILLIONS of dollars of federal grants! This is the STUPIDIEST IDEA I ever heard!
 
hate?

i dont hate the poilice! were did i say that! this is why people do not like to talk to you heath...you assume too much. :slap:


I HATE SPEEDING TICKETS!! that is a very big dif from hating cops!!!

if i hated cops i would not have a motorcycle shop whose main customer base is 75% gov law and 25% DC. and MD cops!
 
It is REALLY SAD SAD SAD that none of you really PAY enough ATTENTION to the government SYSTEM!!! WHo to blame? Governor? Im shooking my head. You got it all DEAD wrong! You should study more about the executive power within government established in America.

I bet, almost NONE of you know your senator, your State representative, council members, and all other executive officals. Don't you REALIZE that those people is the ONE who actually started the laws? They are the ONES who creates CHAOS, and THEY dont give FUCK about it, KNOW WHY? Because they KNEW you'd just blame on governor and the Presidents of the United States! These people DON'T give DAMN becuase they knew they won't lose much vote if they fuck up the government!

I just WISH that America Citizen start paying attention to whats going on the bottom floor of the government system! If you follow closely enough you will DROP your jaws, and realize that these JERKS is the one who FUCK us up BIG TIME! What is really governor's job, you ask? Well, the simple answer is, their job is just more of public relations, and that the governor and president is authorized ONLY to sign the bills passed by IDIOTS and turn them into law! Governor and President do NOT have the power to create the law itself. Reason for the executive power system set forth 225 years ago was to prevent one of government body to be above the law. It is IMPOSSIBLE for governor, and president of the USA to become a totalaritian! Get the picture?
Ok, FINALLY there is OTHER part of executive power which we know as Supreme Court Justices. These 7 Justice HAVE the ABSOLUTE power to KILL a a law that was passed by idiot politicians. So, in order for Justice to kill the law is that 4 of 7 votes NEEDED to KILL them.

I bet ALMOST NONE of you can answer who is your representatives, council members, and senators! That is THE BIGGEST PROBLEM I SEE RIGHT NOW.

Shame on ignorant Americans!
 
you cant be talking about me!

i am very politicly aware, i just hate tickets! :D :bump:
 
So do I! The last time I had speed ticket was the third one in 14 months! My license was supposed to be suspended. BUT becuase I have to pay stupid big fine in CASH, pay immediately to avoid suspension of driver's License. I need transportation to and from RIT at that time.
Now, because the speed limit was raised, and more cops were lenient on speeders that flirts with 80 MPH. So I didn't have speed tix since then.

vfr said:
i am very politicly aware, i just hate tickets! :D :bump:
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How about this one - The Republicans have more seats than Democracts so the Republicans have more votes ...on Republican side. It is just like a frat.
 
That is true, BUT who voted them, and why?

webexplorer said:
How about this one - The Republicans have more seats than Democracts so the Republicans have more votes ...on Republican side. It is just like a frat.
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OK, I will try to respond as time allows.

First link response:

CyberRed said:
...Americans Surrenderin' Liberties: Shades of German History
http://enewsblog.com/Gazette/post/2005-09-18_17:06:29/
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Again, that is an editorial opinion. He makes some good points but this link does not show the actual comparision of the two acts.

(I am a little bothered by a site that doesn't even spell "Adolph" right.)

U.S.A. ''PATRIOT'' ACT / CARBON COPY OF ALOLPH HITLER'S ''ENABLING'' ACT

Radical, Left-Wing Nut Liberals Are Quick To Point Fingers At Bush & The Republican Party Accusing Them Of Advocating A Nazi Gestapo Police-State In America -- Yet It Is The Socialist, Communist, Cultural-Marxist Democrat Party That Overwhelming Endorsed Passage Of The So-Called "Patriot" Acts I & II ... Subsequently, There Is Only ONE Major Political Party In America, And They Are BOTH Anti-American Facists.

The bottom line is, in the name of safety and security, the American people, as did the people of Germany in the 1930's, are willingly surrendering their liberties.

AMERICANS SURRENDERING LIBERTIES: SHADES OF GERMAN HISTORY
By Pastor Chuck Baldwin
August 23, 2005
NewsWithViews.com

It appears that a strengthened U.S.A. Patriot Act will soon sail through Congress with little opposition or consternation on the part of the American people. The new Patriot Act is even more stringent than the original. In addition, many of the more egregious elements of the Patriot Act which were originally scheduled to sunset are made permanent in the latest version. And the vast majority of the American people do not seem to mind...

When told that the Patriot Act is practically a carbon copy of Hitler's Enabling Act, most Americans either yawn with indifference or retort with disbelief. They seem to be oblivious to reality.
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OK, so what is that reality? What are the "carbon copy" sections of the two acts?


...For others, the fact that they do not believe themselves to have yet been personally affected by the new Gestapo-like powers given to the executive branch by the Patriot Act gives them a sense of (false) peace.
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Which powers of the Patriot Act, specifically, are "Gestapo-like"? Please state paragraph and section numbers.


Another thing people need to think about is the definition of "wrongdoing." The argument that, "If you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about" loses its legitimacy when "the powers that be" can alter what "wrong" is at will.

The Patriot Act so loosely defines "terrorism" that virtually anyone or anything could be considered "an act of terrorism" including speech! Plus, Bush lovers need to remember that Dubya will not be president forever. They need to think about the likes of Hillary Clinton or Janet Reno interpreting and enforcing the Patriot Act!
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Again, good points, but not proving the comparisons of the two acts.
 
CyberRed said:
Reba have asked me where I stated about the "parallel" - both of Nazis' "Enablin' Act" and USA's "Patriot Act". I don't find anythin' in your link that I was tryin' to explain.

I know for one thing - if, I post somethin' that I believe will happen... somethin' that will go out of porportion or whateva the pic shows, they will call me :crazy: or baloney.
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I'm not calling you :crazy: or baloney. I respect your opinions. I just request that you back up your opinions with facts. That is, upon which facts are your opinions based?

For example (these numbers are fake, just for examples):

Enabling Act Section 4, par. 34b states, "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx."
Patriot Act Section 2, par. 1a states, "xxxxxxxxxxxxxx."

They both mean XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXxx.

See what I mean?


...I've been watchin' how this country (USA) changes by readin' news online and what the President Bush is doin' with our Constitution. ...
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That is one big difference between Hitler's Germany and our country. The Nazi party had 100% control of the media in Germany. In the US now, we have many sources of information. We can double check what we read in the mainstream press or what we see on network TV. We can read blogs, get cable and satellite news, etc. That is a major difference.
 
diehardbiker65 said:
That is true, BUT who voted them, and why?
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The Republicans always vote for the Republican votes. They could vote Democract votes, but rare. The Republicans do not give a shit if something is screwed up, and they are still voting no matter - like they joint in the same party as a "frat club."

In Massachusetts, for example, Cape Cod military base will be officially removed from the list because many people have voted that came from Democracts. Governor Romney is a Republican and wanted to screw Democracts by removing the base so he won it. It is same thing in Connecticut. Governor Rell is also Republican, last minute, wants to preserve the base by sueing the government - I did not check on the news about the result whether to keep it or not. It can be confusing for us what is happening in our country. It is just a simple stupid plan.
 
webexplorer said:
The Republicans always vote for the Republican votes. ...
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Not always.

Last week's Patriot Act vote:

...Five Republicans voted against the reauthorization: Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, John Sununu of New Hampshire, Craig and Frist. Two Democrats voted to extend the provisions: Sens. Tim Johnson of South Dakota and Ben Nelson of Nebraska.
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