thinking in asl/esl

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emilySUN

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I've been wondering.

When I learned French the teacher told us to try to think in French in order to learn it well, and be able to use it conversationally.

How hard is it for someone who is not a native speaker of ASL/ESL/PSE to think in sign? Is it possible or is it always going to be a matter of "I'm thinking "teach" so I will sign "teach"? Is it harder for someone who is a native speaker of English to think in ASL because of word order?
 
emilySUN said:
I've been wondering.

When I learned French the teacher told us to try to think in French in order to learn it well, and be able to use it conversationally.

How hard is it for someone who is not a native speaker of ASL/ESL/PSE to think in sign? Is it possible or is it always going to be a matter of "I'm thinking "teach" so I will sign "teach"? Is it harder for someone who is a native speaker of English to think in ASL because of word order?
Click to expand...

Personally, I don't think it's any harder than other spoken languages. Spanish, my third and weakest language, has a different word order than English. It took me about 6 months of almost daily interaction with a deaf friend to start 'signing without thinking'. In other words, my brain knew what I wanted to say; my hands said it. No conscious English to ASL/ESL translation.

Learning signs is easy. Becoming conversational in ASL is MUCH harder. Give it time. I still don't read ASL nearly as well as I speak it. This is primarily because all but one of my deaf friends speak well. I don't have near the time in 'listening' to ASL that I have in speaking it.

Learning ASL is a journey for the hearing. That's how I try to view it. If I view it as a destination, I never seem to get there and become frustrated.

Hope this helps,

brianb
 
With any language, you have to be thinking in it to speak like a native speaker. I have taken 5 years of high school Spanish, and every once in awhile, I can start thinking in Spanish, if I am being exposed to it constantly, (i.e., I'm watching a tv program all in Spanish, or listening to Spanish speakers). However, as I haven't put a lot of effort into learning Spanish, it hasn't come naturally.
I've put a lot into learning ASL, and although I've been using it a little under two years, I can get into a signed conversation, and I am "thinking" in ASL. The words just come, I'm not thinking "how do I sign that?" or "what was that fingerspelled word" I just... get it. Eventually a loud noise or an inevitable misunderstanding for an ASL student happens, and it's gone-- but, it's cool while it lasts.
I don't know that you can WORK to think in a language, all you can do is get as much exposure to it and use it as much as you can... eventually, it happens.
 
My first language is English, but I seem to think more in Japanese or ASL...... wierd huh??? :lol:


Teg
 
I think in the language I'm using ...

If I'm using ASL then, I'll think in ASL

When I was taking French in school , I'd think in French - but I'm rusty now because I don't really use it much.

When I speak english , I think in English ( most of the time)

The odd thing for me is that even though English is my "1st language" I tend to spell check in ASL ( I fingerspell the word to make sure it "feels" right) .. and I tend to take written English and translate it into ASL for myself to make sure it makes sense - I'm not really sure how to explain it more than that.
 
I don't think it is any harder to learn to think in ASL than in any other language. When I was studying French, I thought alot in French... same thing when I was studying in Japan or working in a Spanish speaking workplace.... the constant exposure got me thinking in whatever language I was learning at the time.

I suppose I think a lot in ASL now.... sometimes it shows up a bit in my syntax when I'm trying to speak English.... other times it shows up in the form of non-manual gestures. Other times I sign things not realizing that I'm doing so... recently I had a friend ask if I knew a certain person (who I thought I might have met, but wasn't sure and I didn't want to admit that I didn't remember). In English I said, "I think so", but in ASL I signed "forget"... he caught that discrepancy, too....kind of embaressing.
 
This is quite interesting thread... I never have really thought about it. ASL is my primary language. English is my written language. If I tried to speak, the sounds probably would just come out as gibberish sound :dizzy: Now to come to think about it, I believe that I think ASL first before writing/typing my thoughts into sentences since my grammar always sort of get messed up. Those who are familiar with ASL would understand how grammar can get messed up that way :slap:
 
I use ASL too.

Hi Emily,
ASL is not really hard to learn, it just takes practice.
I've known ASL for 31 yrs, thats all I sign.
Its alot faster and better an SEE, PSE ect.
Margie
Dir.of Communications Services
OCDAC
 
I believe it depends on the individual and the situation. I have seen a newbie to signing at Gallaudet U. become a pretty fluent signer in a little over a month. When you get your feet wet in an environiment, you adjust. I myself think in both ASL and english depending on the circumstances. Also, ASL is considered a category 1 or 2, while languages like Japanese are a category 4. Categories are arranged by how hard it is to learn and become fluent in the said language. I believe ASL should be at least a Category 3 though.
 
What language do you think in ?

It is interesting that this topic would come up at the end of July. I am a member of the forum www.alldeaf.com and the same sort of thing was discussed.

Few Things That Have Always Puzzled Me
http://www.deafforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=959&st=0&p=4667&

I asked around and Sarah and Brad two of my friends mentioned some things..
---------------------------------------------
That was an interesting discussion. To practice ASL, I think in English and sign the words that I know. For example, if I'm thinking 'I should get some milk', I try to sign the signs I know. I have been signing in my dreams lately, which is kind of weird and fun! I am going to try and think ASL on Saturday. A guy I know who interprets said that you shouldn't talk while you sign because then you are more prone to sign English.
----------------------------------------------
i read the forum...i guess it depends where i am and who i'm talking to
as to which language i
think in. however, i tend to 'automatically' respond to things with
little japanese exclamations...
so there's some influence of that second language there.

i'm going to forward this to my deaf japanese friend, who speaks both
ASL and ... i don't know
what to call it? Australian Sign Language? as well as Japanese sign
language. he also speaks
english and japanese (and can read lips) and can speak korean (but not
read lips, because of
the vowels used in korean, it's too difficult!). i'll see what he says!

Jim
 
emilySUN said:
I've been wondering.

When I learned French the teacher told us to try to think in French in order to learn it well, and be able to use it conversationally.

How hard is it for someone who is not a native speaker of ASL/ESL/PSE to think in sign? Is it possible or is it always going to be a matter of "I'm thinking "teach" so I will sign "teach"? Is it harder for someone who is a native speaker of English to think in ASL because of word order?
Click to expand...

when you think of "teach" do you think of putting your tongue to your teeth, puffing a bit of air out and then immediately pulling the corners of your mouth back, biting down and then forcing air through your clenched teeth?

or do you think of what it means to teach? When I think of "teach" I think of a teacher in a classroom. If you asked me what I was thinking, I would respond in whatever language you asked me in (given that I understand it :))

edited to add: I do experience some crossover though (for example, when I tell people I transferred schools I sign "transfer" out of reflex)
 
I've heard that for those raised on a spoken language as their first language, there are weak signals sent to the tongue, vocal cords, and lips (even if you don't actually say anything). Given that the exact same area of the brain governs signed language, I would expect that thinking in signs is quite doable even when it's your second language. Now, I say that without having had the chance to take ASL yet, but it makes good sense...
 
Raising an old post, but I wanted to comment.

Specifically, travis' comment about associating the actual bits of speech to a concept is interesting. I find that, when I sign (I grew up hearing), I still begin to move my mouth for the word, even if I don't end up saying it, which ties in Rose's comment about signals sent to the vocal chords and mouth, and this is a habit that I imagine interrupts NMS a little bit.

As for whether I think in ASL or English, when I conciously think about it, I 'hear' the english word in my head as I do the sign. I have had very few instances where the ASL sign was first to come to mind rather than the english word, but, like hanabithief and travis, when I am speaking english, I feel the signs in the form of actually signing them during english conversation or just the feeling of the movement that would be made to produce the sign.

I primarily speak PSE, however, since it is dominant on campus, but I am doing everything I can to improve towards ASL.
 
I have noticed many hearies and deafies people are complained that they couldnt understand us and our ASL in the Deaf community after all they teach SEE that is the huge explaination for them not to understand from the beginners. I was thinking about how can I help hearing people to pick ASL easily..

My strongly believe is for them to learn ASL that needs not to use their hearing ears and staring at our hands at once.. Thats what they should deal with..

1. NO more depends on ears
2. Look the half of whole body
3. Look at person s whole face expression with their orally movement that is how we deafies lipread most of the time with our hands.
4. Use your receptive eyes while you are learning ASL.
5. No voices while you are learning ASL in the classrooms.
6. Dont think English too much while you are learning ASL
7. Take the whole view of body language, hands and face altogether.
8. Please Please do not stare at the hands only

I know you will getting there if you have a very motivation all the way then you will become the excellence ASL. ;) Wish you a good luck!

Have a happy learning in ASL classroom if you have a Deaf ASL teacher that is very good opportunity to have in your classroom than having a Hearing ASL teacher unless a hearing person have a deaf heart that would be acceptable. Then you need to mingle with other deafies at Deaf social events.

Take care!
Sweetmind
 
I tend to think in English more than ASL, which makes since because I'm hearing. However, when I'm reading something (especially from the computer screen), I tend to sign it if I'm having trouble understanding it, rather than speaking it aloud. I do that a lot when I'm looking up definitions in the dictionary; for whatever reason, reading the words verbally doesn't do it for me, but if I sign the definition I get it right away. Odd.
 
Sweetmind said:
I have noticed many hearies and deafies people are complained that they couldnt understand us and our ASL in the Deaf community after all they teach SEE that is the huge explaination for them not to understand from the beginners. I was thinking about how can I help hearing people to pick ASL easily..

My strongly believe is for them to learn ASL that needs not to use their hearing ears and staring at our hands at once.. Thats what they should deal with..

1. NO more depends on ears
2. Look the half of whole body
3. Look at person s whole face expression with their orally movement that is how we deafies lipread most of the time with our hands.
4. Use your receptive eyes while you are learning ASL.
5. No voices while you are learning ASL in the classrooms.
6. Dont think English too much while you are learning ASL
7. Take the whole view of body language, hands and face altogether.
8. Please Please do not stare at the hands only

I know you will getting there if you have a very motivation all the way then you will become the excellence ASL. ;) Wish you a good luck!

Have a happy learning in ASL classroom if you have a Deaf ASL teacher that is very good opportunity to have in your classroom than having a Hearing ASL teacher unless a hearing person have a deaf heart that would be acceptable. Then you need to mingle with other deafies at Deaf social events.

Take care!
Sweetmind
Click to expand...


NO HEARING ASL TEACHERS
NO ORAL ASL TEACHERS
NO HOH ASL TEACHERS
NO 2ND ASL DEAF TEACHERS
ONLY DEAF ASL TEACHERS can teach ASL.
Because the DEAF ASL TEACHERS have lot of experience about their whole life, they learned from deaf schools, deaf socials, Gallaudet university, CSUN, NTID, deaf history, deaf culture, ETC, The deaf asl teachers know about inside their heart. They know about their proudly to be capital of Deaf; no capital of deaf. Therefore the capital Deaf can teach ASL to hearing students can learn ASL so well.


HTH

Duncan
 
Duncan said:
ONLY DEAF ASL TEACHERS can teach ASL.
Click to expand...

It's a nice idea but if that happened, there would be no more people learning ASL. Why? There just aren't that many Deaf ASL teachers out there. It's not practical for hearing people, many of whom learn sign in school or college where there aren't that many Deaf instructors. Is it better that people learn some sign from hearing teachers and then go out and learn more from d/Deaf people, or that people don't get a chance to learn at all? What about CODAs who grow up using ASL their entire lives?

I've taken ASL 1 from a Deaf teacher and from a hearing teacher, and frankly, the Deaf teacher wasn't very good. Of course she was a native signer but she didn't know how to teach. I would say "ONLY THE BEST ASL USERS AND TEACHERS SHOULD TEACH ASL."

That said, I would never teach ASL. I've turned down offers to teach before because I don't think it's right for me to be teaching it. But there are hearing people who are exceptionally well qualified to teach. (The ones I've had, though, make it a requirement in their classes to interact with the deaf community.)

Also, I do have a problem with hearing teachers in Deaf schools, even though I know there simply aren't enough Deaf teachers to go around. If they are CODAs or native signers than fine, but I agree with you that Deaf kids need role models for their natural language. It's vitally important to have a native user of any language teach it as a FIRST language.
 
For any language, I think having native teachers is the best solution, but VERY good non-natives are the next best option.

One non-native teacher I had for Spanish would spend every summer in Spain, and he'd also lived there for an extended time. He had a slight American accent to his Spanish, but the advantage he had is that he could explain the culture of that country in a way that American students could relate to. I think that kind of "ambassador" is very good for things like history and literature...and sometimes for first-year students when not everything can be explained in the language they're learning (though the total-immersion method also has its advantages).

Ultimately what's best really boils down to how good the teacher is, how passionate he or she is, and how receptive the students are to really learning. Either kind of teacher in my experience can be good--but the teacher has to know his or her weaknesses (and both kinds have them) and know how to compensate. The hearing ASL teachers Interpretrator mentioned, who required interaction with the Deaf community seem to have that kind of understanding.

I know I'm a little out of my league, but you do see a bit of this debate in all foreign-language departments.

P.S.: Interpretrator...been meaning to comment on that name! I crack up every time I see it--traduttore, tradittore! ;)
 
Rose Immortal said:
P.S.: Interpretrator...been meaning to comment on that name! I crack up every time I see it--traduttore, tradittore! ;)
Click to expand...

Heh, thanks...my ITP teacher used it once and I loved it because I often feel I'm "perpetrating" my interpreting on my clients. And then I used it as a character name in an online game (which is my user icon) and it just stuck.
 
I'm just starting to learn ASL and these tips are great to me. Because of my busy schedule i'm not able to talk any formal classes..but am seeing a deaf man who's teaching me. I also work with several deaf coworkers and they are patient with me. I'm finding it really difficult but was so glad to find this site and all the links for help.
 
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