The truth about me, Fuzzy...

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posts from hell said:
Sorry, I just see it differently. You have a lisp, and you've complained about that. You've wished you knew sign language, etc etc... Hence the reason I asked where it got you.....

I guess I don't understand why you have these issues and still act as a strong proponent for oralism.
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seems strong on her is oralism! I am very aware it her bio seems pretty

I am puzzled it whoa!
 
Audiofuzzy said:
For example I was able to became an esthetician whereas for non -hearing person it was impossible.

Fuzzy
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I know one Deaf woman who was able to work in the beauty shop. She has no speech skills at all for the record. Funny, I hadn't thought of her in years till now.
 
I guess I don't understand why you have these issues and still act as a strong proponent for oralism.
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I am not strong proponent for oralism.

I am strong proponent for BOTH -being deaf, and using everything that makes life simply easier.
And living in a world of sounds, it is easier being able to hear, too.

I find it just useful, however I am aware not everyone will be able to speak as well as hearing person, I know.
Still, being able to speak even a little is useful skill.
It is not a contest. It is about making one's life more comfortable.

Get it- a "skill"?
Different people have different skills.
hearing and talking is simply a skill.

Some speak better, some worse. And that is okay.
But even a little speech is a nice skill to have - why not?,
if it doesn't come at emotional cost of being forced to do it, and deprived of other natural language which is ASL?

It's just a skill that is possible to attain because of CI,
to more or less degree at one's free will - while still being deaf and Deaf.
Providing the babies aren't denied an access to ASL and Deaf community, of course.

That's why it's so important to me - to not deny this chance to specifically babies, for they achieve the best benefits from CI.

Is all I am saying..
But, let's not get pulled into it again, eh?

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
I am not strong proponent for oralism.

I am strong proponent for BOTH -being deaf, and using everything that makes life simply easier.
And living in a world of sounds, it is easier being able to hear, too.

I find it just useful, however I am aware not everyone will be able to speak as well as hearing person, I know.
Still, being able to speak even a little is useful skill.
It is not a contest. It is about making one's life more comfortable.

Get it- a "skill"?
Different people have different skills.
hearing and talking is simply a skill.

Some speak better, some worse. And that is okay.
But even a little speech is a nice skill to have - why not?,
if it doesn't come at emotional cost of being forced to do it, and deprived of other natural language which is ASL?

It's just a skill that is possible to attain because of CI,
to more or less degree at one's free will - while still being deaf and Deaf.
Providing the babies aren't denied an access to ASL and Deaf community, of course.

That's why it's so important to me - to not deny this chance to specifically babies, for they achieve the best benefits from CI.

Is all I am saying..
But, let's not get pulled into it again, eh?

Fuzzy
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Just saying - even though you value both, the mere fact you said "impossible" back in your era spreads the idea of hearing is a must to survive, a superiority... This alone demonstrates an audist way of thought. Not saying YOU are audist, but the thought train is.

I hope by pointing that out to you, you can look into yourself a bit more.
 
I've been this nice to you... because you don't bullshit around with what you believe in though.... :)
 
Sorry, I just see it differently. You have a lisp, and you've complained about that. You've wished you knew sign language, etc etc...
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You would understand if you realized I embrace both worlds.
I would have no problems switching from ASL to oral and back in an eyeblink.

I wouldn't -I didn't- discriminate between my Deaf and hearing friends because I look at people, not the way they communicate.
I do not judge people by their gender, race, sexual orientation, religion either.
What matters to me is how people act.
Their moral stance is what matters to me.

I experienced both a little bit of Deaf world and Hearing world, and I can appreciate both from that experience.


Yes, I wish I wouldn't lisp, but not because of how people treat me but like the way one wish to know foreign language perfectly.
Or how one wish one could draw or play music without mistakes. For MYSELF.

That it hurts or pisses when people bother you because of your disability.
is entire different matter. I said I know how it feels, because I know,
because I experienced it.
But to fix my lisping - I'd do that only to please ME.

Fuzzy
 
Just saying - even though you value both, the mere fact you said "impossible" back in your era spreads the idea of hearing is a must to survive, a superiority...
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And such was my reality. I come from one of those former eastern-european communist countries where the deaf were considered a second class citizens
and told what they can and can not do.

At the end of 1970-ties, a deaf person was flat out told he or she can not be
a beautician because this kind of job require the ability to hear well,
and I didn't.

The only way I was able to get into that profession was by cheating.

I simply applied for apprenticeship without disclosing I am HoH, and things went from there.
I denied having hearing problems for as long as I could.
When it was finally revealed, it was too late to fire me.

Besides, I've proved my worth by then.

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
And such was my reality. I come from one of those former eastern-european communist countries where the deaf were considered a second class citizens
and told what they can and can not do.

At the end of 1970-ties, a deaf person was flat out told he or she can not be
a beautician because this kind of job require the ability to hear well,
and I didn't.

The only way I was able to get into that profession was by cheating.

I simply applied for apprenticeship without disclosing I am HoH, and things went from there.
I denied having hearing problems for as long as I could.
When it was finally revealed, it was too late to fire me.

Besides, I've proved my worth by then.

Fuzzy
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Thats fine... But to tell us it is impossible is projecting superiority, ya see?
 
It is. But I wasn't projecting superiority.

I remind you, you asked me how my hearing has helped me.
I replied it helped me to become something in times when for the deaf it was impossible, and it was impossible.

But I didn't caused it to be impossible.

Also in USA, the Deaf for years had to fight to prove their worth and able-ness despite their hearing loss in many areas. They still do.


But I ma not about that.

Again, I simply value hearing and ability to speak - for itself.

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
I am not strong proponent for oralism.

I am strong proponent for BOTH -being deaf, and using everything that makes life simply easier.
And living in a world of sounds, it is easier being able to hear, too.

I find it just useful, however I am aware not everyone will be able to speak as well as hearing person, I know.
Still, being able to speak even a little is useful skill.
It is not a contest. It is about making one's life more comfortable.

Get it- a "skill"?
Different people have different skills.
hearing and talking is simply a skill.

Some speak better, some worse. And that is okay.
But even a little speech is a nice skill to have - why not?,
if it doesn't come at emotional cost of being forced to do it, and deprived of other natural language which is ASL?

It's just a skill that is possible to attain because of CI,
to more or less degree at one's free will - while still being deaf and Deaf.
Providing the babies aren't denied an access to ASL and Deaf community, of course.

That's why it's so important to me - to not deny this chance to specifically babies, for they achieve the best benefits from CI.

Is all I am saying..
But, let's not get pulled into it again, eh?

Fuzzy
Click to expand...

I highlighted a few things that jumped out at me in your post...

It's nice that you include the "Providing the babies aren't denied an access to ASL" But I think that is only distracting what you are really saying here. You are saying that life is better with the ability to hear... even if one must have an implant to do so.

Not all of us share your opinion that the ability to hear (even a little bit) is a highly valuable skill. This explains clearly why you feel that implanting an infant as early as possible is critical. You see life as being less without the option to hear.

Well, I am here to tell you. I struggle with my hearing almost every day. I have a CI and I am more successful than the average CI user but I worked really hard to get to this point. I use the telephone daily. I rarely have an interpreter anymore (though there are times I wish for one). The more "hearing" my day is, the more tired I am in the evenings. I have constant debilitating migraines that are brought on by stress and other factors.

If anything, I would like you to take from my comments, that "hearing" is not all you make it out to be. It's not this life saving, life enhancing, miracle. It's a tool that frankly some days I wish I could do without.

You seem to be set to change people's minds here about implanting the very young. Most of the minds here are not willing to change. receiving a CI is a hell of a lot of work. I have very mixed feelings about putting that kind of burden on a child. Your arguments have done nothing to swing my opinion towards implanting a child. And frankly I am getting tired of reading this thread.

You have stated your opinion. Lets move on.
 
This is like the Energizer Bunny thread. 6 pages of this and it's still going.
 
Wirelessly posted

faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted

KarissaMann05 said:
Okay. I wonder, does that means it is too late for someone to learn how to speak and hear with CIs or HAs, right? If someone learn how to speak and hear at much early age, then it won't be a problem, right? So, if someone don't learn to speak and hear until much later, it is too late and cannot be learned at all? Am I understand you, right?
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depends how much later. The outcomes for before 2 are great, before 4 ok. After age 5, things get much more difficult. After age 7, if the child is not already oral it is very unlikely that they will be.
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In other words,FJ, you are saying that if a deaf child does not have a CI before the age of 5 - then that child cannot acquire spoken language and is therefore rendered not only Deaf but Dumb too?.....uh oh.
 
BecLak said:
Wirelessly posted
In other words,FJ, you are saying that if a deaf child does not have a CI before the age of 5 - then that child cannot acquire spoken language and is therefore rendered not only Deaf but Dumb too?.....uh oh.
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I can't help but think about a deaf boy in Quebec who got implanted at age 9 and succeeded quite nicely at learning speech and is performing very well in school.

He really wanted the implant and was very motivated to learn to speak. Perhaps waiting till the child asks for it is balanced out by the child's determination to make the best use of the CI including speech therapy.

Burlington Free Press April 21, 2002
 
Well if we can discuss peacefully...?

Not all of us share your opinion that the ability to hear (even a little bit) is a highly valuable skill. This explains clearly why you feel that implanting an infant as early as possible is critical. You see life as being less without the option to hear.
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Finally :) clear point to clear up :)

NO, as much as I value ability to hear I feel

implanting infant as early as possible is important to me
because of the best benefits received then from implanting not due to the valuing hearing itself.
In other words, it is from purely medical/scientific POV.
(print "fatted up" to catch your attention)

Please don't confuse these two - that I value ability to hear per se, and
the fact that the earlier the babies are implanted, the better the results from implanting later on.

Well, I am here to tell you. I struggle with my hearing almost every day. I have a CI and I am more successful than the average CI user but I worked really hard to get to this point.
Click to expand...

At what age were you implanted? were you pre-lingual, or postilingual?
What was you hearing loss? How well did you communicate orally?
This all matters.

I use the telephone daily. I rarely have an interpreter anymore (though there are times I wish for one). The more "hearing" my day is, the more tired I am in the evenings. I have constant debilitating migraines that are brought on by stress and other factors.
Click to expand...

I am very sorry about that. The stress, the exertion from hearing can certainly act as big migraine trigger. This is the reason that stops ME from getting an implant. I can relate.
I wonder if I can help you migraine -wise?

If anything, I would like you to take from my comments, that "hearing" is not all you make it out to be. It's not this life saving, life enhancing, miracle. It's a tool that frankly some days I wish I could do without.
Click to expand...

But I never said it is life saving, and by 'enhancing' I simply mean as 'life simplifying' the way, say, a computer can enhance life.
You can very well live well without computer, but it is easier with computer, isn't it?
Or this is where you don't like how I think?
However, may I point out nowadays most, or at least more and more pple
can have CI - it's just their choice to have it or not.

You seem to be set to change people's minds here about implanting the very young. Most of the minds here are not willing to change. receiving a CI is a hell of a lot of work. I have very mixed feelings about putting that kind of burden on a child.
Click to expand...

I admit it is my wish yes, to make more people see that sometimes they reject the idea of being able to hear because they perceive it as a threat
to their deafness and "Deafness",
whereas being able to hear and speak any can be in fact quite a good thing.

For example, and please don't think I am attacking you D-Caroline because I am not, I am just using you as a great example,
you yourself said you are very tired and get migraines at the end of the day from hearing but at the same time I have an impression that after all you value your independence, are you not?

And why couldn't you, it is simply handy, and the way some people know how to paint and draw, and some people don't, same way some people
can be implanted early as babies and get excellent hearing and speaking abilities, and yet still be culturally Deaf. And why not?
To me, is the best of both worlds...

And, CI won't fix or cure deafness any soon. There are so many different causes of deafness, and CI helps - not CURE, helps -only one specific kind of S-N damage.
For just a sensori-neural damage, if the nerves are gone, it can't even help that.


However, I must admit, after reading Shoshana story, the only thing that slightly crumbled my belief in CI is these side effects after implanting like dizziness, vertigo.
That sure isn't a good thing to have, hmm.
But still, I hope, since technology always develops, these kinks will be ironed, too.

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Well if we can discuss peacefully...?



Finally :) clear point to clear up :)

NO, as much as I value ability to hear I feel

implanting infant as early as possible is important to me
because of the best benefits received then from implanting not due to the valuing hearing itself.
In other words, it is from purely medical/scientific POV.
(print "fatted up" to catch your attention)

Please don't confuse these two - that I value ability to hear per se, and
the fact that the earlier the babies are implanted, the better the results from implanting later on.



At what age were you implanted? were you pre-lingual, or postilingual?
What was you hearing loss? How well did you communicate orally?
This all matters.



I am very sorry about that. The stress, the exertion from hearing can certainly act as big migraine trigger. This is the reason that stops ME from getting an implant. I can relate.
I wonder if I can help you migraine -wise?



But I never said it is life saving, and by 'enhancing' I simply mean as 'life simplifying' the way, say, a computer can enhance life.
You can very well live well without computer, but it is easier with computer, isn't it?
Or this is where you don't like how I think?
However, may I point out nowadays most, or at least more and more pple
can have CI - it's just their choice to have it or not.



I admit it is my wish yes, to make more people see that sometimes they reject the idea of being able to hear because they perceive it as a threat
to their deafness and "Deafness",
whereas being able to hear and speak any can be in fact quite a good thing.

For example, and please don't think I am attacking you D-Caroline because I am not, I am just using you as a great example,
you yourself said you are very tired and get migraines at the end of the day from hearing but at the same time I have an impression that after all you value your independence, are you not?

And why couldn't you, it is simply handy, and the way some people know how to paint and draw, and some people don't, same way some people
can be implanted early as babies and get excellent hearing and speaking abilities, and yet still be culturally Deaf. And why not?
To me, is the best of both worlds...

And, CI won't fix or cure deafness any soon. There are so many different causes of deafness, and CI helps - not CURE, helps -only one specific kind of S-N damage.
For just a sensori-neural damage, if the nerves are gone, it can't even help that.


However, I must admit, after reading Shoshana story, the only thing that slightly crumbled my belief in CI is these side effects after implanting like dizziness, vertigo.
That sure isn't a good thing to have, hmm.
But still, I hope, since technology always develops, these kinks will be ironed, too.

Fuzzy
Click to expand...

Radkas story?

Also, I have a friend of friend that used to model for living and she got a CI...

Result: paralysis of her face.

she went into deep depression, became extremely obese... very negative... Dont know where she is now.

So yeah, it's not perfect.

Also caroline showed you an article where kids do fine being implanted later in life. I know several offhand. All of which makes me go 'phootey' into the myth of implanting earlier. I think it's all just a scheme to get your money.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
For example, and please don't think I am attacking you D-Caroline because I am not, I am just using you as a great example,
you yourself said you are very tired and get migraines at the end of the day from hearing but at the same time I have an impression that after all you value your independence, are you not?
Click to expand...

I had migraines as a child. Haven't had them since switching to another school in grade six. I do value my independence but what does that have to do with speech?
 
Also caroline showed you an article where kids do fine being implanted later in life. I know several offhand. All of which makes me go 'phootey' into the myth of implanting earlier. I think it's all just a scheme to get your money.
Click to expand...

Look, these statistics are in percentages.
The highest %%%% for best results are for the children who were implanted before the age of 3. can't argue with that.

That doesn't mean of course, that for every 100 CI teens who were implanted at various ages, precisely out of the 100%
the whole 100% of CI teens were in the babies category. (I hope I make sense)

Of course, I agree that some percentage of the teens doing well with CI
will include kids implanted later in life.

Still, the percentage remains in great favor for babies. And that mean something.

I don't think it's a scheme.
I truly believe, if you compare children at say, 10 y.o.
and can honestly say those who were implanted as babies perform better, then it gotta be true?

Fuzzy
 
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