The sun and the earth... on cued speech

[loml]

I live in Oregon, very NW corner close to Washington. We have very
close Deaf friends who live just over the boarder in Washington. But
we only get to see them 2 or 3 times a year.

I have been watching videos over and over. My sister inlaw (She is
fluent in ASL and the only adult I know about that learned after her
first child was born deaf, that became so fluent that she interprets
very often for technical classes and plays and things like that. But
then she was an ambassadors daughter, traveled extensively and spoke
several languages as a child. I'm sure that helped. Any way so far the
most helpful thing has been watching Deaf Ninja over and over. I think
I was on my 8 or 9nth viewing when I visually saw him become aware
of the single raindrop falling! It was so pretty! I had missed that all the
other views! Watching Keith Wann is helping some too. I'm really into
comedy in any venue so I think I'll keep trying that. I need the ones that
have voice though, I don't turn the sound up till I've viewed them at least
3 times.

fredfam - Do you have a web cam that you can "chat " with you sister-in-law? Also some post secondary insistututes that teach interpretor training, (don't know if this will apply to you), will have a selection in their library for receptive learning.

 

[jillio]

jillio -With reagards to cueing and childhood developement, indeed it would appear through you own admission that you do not have the education. Unless of course you have managed to squeeze in a Basic Cued Speech workshop some time this weekend.

What exactly does CS have to do with my coursework in child development?

And since the claim is that CS can be learned in a mere 20 hours, it isn't impossible for me to have done so, now is it? But no, I have not. But that still has nothing to do with my education in child development and developmental psychology.

You still are not answering the question.

 

[loml]

What exactly does CS have to do with my coursework in child development?

And since the claim is that CS can be learned in a mere 20 hours, it isn't impossible for me to have done so, now is it? But no, I have not. But that still has nothing to do with my education in child development and developmental psychology.

You still are not answering the question.

I do not question you education in regard to child developement and developmental psychology jillio. I do know that you do not have any experience with childhood delvelpoment and developmenntal psychology and Cued Speech. That clear enough for you?

 

[jillio]

I do not question you education in regard to child developement and developmental psychology jillio. I do know that you do not have any experience with childhood delvelpoment and developmenntal psychology and Cued Speech. That clear enough for you?

Again, one has nothing to do with the other, loml. I don't have any experience in child development, developmental psychology and Japanese, either, but the consistent developmental cycles are still applicable to a Japanese speaking child.

Are you going to answer the question I posed?

 

[loml]

Again, one has nothing to do with the other, loml. I don't have any experience in child development, developmental psychology and Japanese, either, but the consistent developmental cycles are still applicable to a Japanese speaking child.

Are you going to answer the question I posed?

No

 

[loml]

Then why do you stay locked in that little box of yours?

And I beg to differ with you. I have extensive coursework and field work in child developmental cycles, as well as extensive research in CS. What exactly are your credentials and education?

jillio

I don't have any experience in child development, developmental psychology and Japanese, either, but the consistent developmental cycles are still applicable to a Japanese speaking child.

Seems the ducks are not in the same row.

 

[jillio]

No

That doesn't surprise me in the least.

 

[jillio]

jillio

Seems the ducks are not in the same row.

Explain this very odd comment. Your use of idiom makes absolutely no sense.

 

[loml]

That doesn't surprise me in the least.

LOL I didn't sign up for a p*ssing contest.

 

[jillio]

LOL I didn't sign up for a p*ssing contest.

And neither did I. But you seemed to think it was a good idea when you questioned my education and experience, so while you may not have signed up for it, you certainly initiated it.

 

[loml]

And neither did I. But you seemed to think it was a good idea when you questioned my education and experience, so while you may not have signed up for it, you certainly initiated it.

jillio - The facts are you do not know how to cue, nor do you wish to learn how to (through your own admission). So in fact you do not have cueing education. if you want to warp it into me questioning "your education"...have at 'er.

 

[flip]

flip - Cloggy can/does post whatever he chooses.

Sure, I just find it dizzy that Cloggy posts articles that disagree with your CS philosophy, while he goes all supportive about CS on this board. Cloggy also fails to see that CS is quite often seen as a rival to oralism depedent on sound and speech alone, that Cloggy promotes.

It doesn't make sense, and it gives a impression of a man that don't know what he is saying anymore.

 

[deafskeptic]

Sure, I just find it dizzy that Cloggy posts articles that disagree with your CS philosophy, while he goes all supportive about CS on this board. Cloggy also fails to see that CS is quite often seen as a rival to oralism depedent on sound and speech alone, that Cloggy promotes.

It doesn't make sense, and it gives a impression of a man that don't know what he is saying anymore.

That CS would be considered a rival to oralism comes as a surprise to me as I recall that in the 2nd grade, cued speech became the in thing in my oral program. I don't recall using cued speech before 2nd grade and by 3rd grade, my family hardly ever used CS. I always thought CS was popular with many oralists.

 

[jag]

Ooooh! Where would I find those? Do you have a link?

If you havn't already tried this resource I believe it is pretty good. and free.

DCMP.org :: Home :: Media Library

 

[Kaitin]

Where does isolation of the child come in.? If the parent learns CS or ASl.... isolation is prevented.
Why should anyone learn ASL if there's a good alternative?

Learning to cue: 20 hours and one can cue any word in the dictionary and cue sentenses. Slow, but any word can be cued
ASL... 20 hours to start something basic words. Forget sentenses.

So, CS would be an addition to already known language. ASL would be starting a new language.
CS would give parents the ability to start communication straight away, without having to learn a new language.

Learn ASL because ASL is the language of deaf culture, CI can fail or need to turn off, CI may not work enough for all kids, a kid with CI still is deaf and ASL is the natural language, and ASL is a beautiful language to know for anyone. ASL is easier to learn as a kid. If later they need or want ASL, now why refuse to teach it? The parents can learn more ASL as the kid grows so they are good with ASL when the kid can communicate more.

The kid will struggle her whole life with communication - even with CI - so why would the parents refuse the work to learn ASL for a few years? Maybe the parent's work shows the parents a tiny bit of the struggle of the kid and new thinking about deaf and deaf community - another big benefit. It is hard to be the one deaf kid in a hearing family IME so the family knowing ASL is the hearing family trying deaf life for once - probably all other times everything is about the deaf kid being in the hearing world. So learning ASL is a small work for hearing parents to reach the deaf kid.

Just one example -

From Child: Care, Health and Development, volume 28 Issue 5 Page 403-418, September 2002: A psychosocial follow-up study of deaf preschool children using cochlear implants

The aim of the study was to explore patterns of communication between 22 children with cochlear implants (CI) and their parents, teachers and peers in natural interactions over a 2-year period. The children, between 2 and 5 years old when implanted, had used the implant between 1 and 3.5 years at the end of the study. Analyses of videorecorded interactions showed that meaningful oral communication was more easily obtained in the home setting than in the preschool setting. Patterns of communication between parent–child, content and complexity of dialogues, quality of peer interactions, communicative styles of adults, and the use of sign language in communication turned out to be important factors when explaining the result of the CI on the individual child's development. The children with the best oral skills were also good signers.

 

[shel90]

Learn ASL because ASL is the language of deaf culture, CI can fail or need to turn off, CI may not work enough for all kids, a kid with CI still is deaf and ASL is the natural language, and ASL is a beautiful language to know for anyone. ASL is easier to learn as a kid. If later they need or want ASL, now why refuse to teach it? The parents can learn more ASL as the kid grows so they are good with ASL when the kid can communicate more.

The kid will struggle her whole life with communication - even with CI - so why would the parents refuse the work to learn ASL for a few years? Maybe the parent's work shows the parents a tiny bit of the struggle of the kid and new thinking about deaf and deaf community - another big benefit. It is hard to be the one deaf kid in a hearing family IME so the family knowing ASL is the hearing family trying deaf life for once - probably all other times everything is about the deaf kid being in the hearing world. So learning ASL is a small work for hearing parents to reach the deaf kid.

Just one example -

From Child: Care, Health and Development, volume 28 Issue 5 Page 403-418, September 2002: A psychosocial follow-up study of deaf preschool children using cochlear implants

The aim of the study was to explore patterns of communication between 22 children with cochlear implants (CI) and their parents, teachers and peers in natural interactions over a 2-year period. The children, between 2 and 5 years old when implanted, had used the implant between 1 and 3.5 years at the end of the study. Analyses of videorecorded interactions showed that meaningful oral communication was more easily obtained in the home setting than in the preschool setting. Patterns of communication between parent–child, content and complexity of dialogues, quality of peer interactions, communicative styles of adults, and the use of sign language in communication turned out to be important factors when explaining the result of the CI on the individual child's development. The children with the best oral skills were also good signers.

By that statement about ASL, it is apparent Cloggy feels that ASL is not as worth learning.

What I find funny is that Cloggy is fluent in more than one language which shows that he is capable of taking the time to learn more than one language but wont put in that time for sign language.

 

[flip]

That CS would be considered a rival to oralism comes as a surprise to me as I recall that in the 2nd grade, cued speech became the in thing in my oral program. I don't recall using cued speech before 2nd grade and by 3rd grade, my family hardly ever used CS. I always thought CS was popular with many oralists.

I understand your confusion, but it's common for oral programs to include visual aid. That's why it's so rare to find pure oral programs, because they won't work. Let me show the incoherent statements:

From the article Cloggy posted:
"..because sound is not visible and because speech is the act of producing sound in meaningful ways, from the D/deaf receiver's perspective, speech is not a part of the cued message. This is a piece of common sense information that is currently ignored by a great many hearing cuers."


From CS(NCSA):
The National Cued Speech Association (NCSA) supports literacy and language development through the use of Cued Speech. The NCSA asserts that the continued use of cueing after implantation facilitates the process of learning speech and language through auditory channels by providing visual clarification and confirmation of what the person hears through the implant.

The NCSA believes that for the implant recipient to obtain maximum long-term educational and linguistic benefits, accurate and fluent cueing should be used in conjunction with the cochlear implant.


AVT:
Auditory-Verbal Therapy is a highly effective method using technology for developing the maximum use of hearing. This approach brings meaningful sound to the brain naturally. Clear speech, natural spoken language and strong literacy skills are results of Auditory- Verbal Therapy.

Auditory-Verbal professionals agree that sign language and lip reading at an early age inhibit the child’s dependence on LISTENING to acquire language. The goal is to teach children that sounds have meaning, to lock hearing into a child’s personality.

So here we see that Cloggy brings up a post that rejects the ideas of NCSA, that loml tries to convince us are good. Cloggy jumps on that wagon, and also defends the NCSA CS philosophy, while he facilitate his child with AVT, that rejects lip reading tools like CS, as it would inhibit the childs listening skills.

Crazy, isn't it.:fruit:

 

[shel90]

I understand your confusion, but it's common for oral programs to include visual aid. That's why it's so rare to find pure oral programs, because they won't work. Let me show the incoherent statements:

From the article Cloggy posted:
"..because sound is not visible and because speech is the act of producing sound in meaningful ways, from the D/deaf receiver's perspective, speech is not a part of the cued message. This is a piece of common sense information that is currently ignored by a great many hearing cuers."


From CS(NCSA):
The National Cued Speech Association (NCSA) supports literacy and language development through the use of Cued Speech. The NCSA asserts that the continued use of cueing after implantation facilitates the process of learning speech and language through auditory channels by providing visual clarification and confirmation of what the person hears through the implant.

The NCSA believes that for the implant recipient to obtain maximum long-term educational and linguistic benefits, accurate and fluent cueing should be used in conjunction with the cochlear implant.


AVT:
Auditory-Verbal Therapy is a highly effective method using technology for developing the maximum use of hearing. This approach brings meaningful sound to the brain naturally. Clear speech, natural spoken language and strong literacy skills are results of Auditory- Verbal Therapy.

Auditory-Verbal professionals agree that sign language and lip reading at an early age inhibit the child’s dependence on LISTENING to acquire language. The goal is to teach children that sounds have meaning, to lock hearing into a child’s personality.

So here we see that Cloggy brings up a post that rejects the ideas of NCSA, that loml tries to convince us are good. Cloggy jumps on that wagon, and also defends the NCSA CS philosophy, while he facilitate his child with AVT, that rejects lip reading tools like CS, as it would inhibit the childs listening skills.

Crazy, isn't it.:fruit:

The professionals who said things like that are disgusting! Lock hearing into the child's personality?? WTF ????? Sick Sick Sick

to those stupid oralists

 

[flip]

Learn ASL because ASL is the language of deaf culture, CI can fail or need to turn off, CI may not work enough for all kids, a kid with CI still is deaf and ASL is the natural language, and ASL is a beautiful language to know for anyone. ASL is easier to learn as a kid. If later they need or want ASL, now why refuse to teach it? The parents can learn more ASL as the kid grows so they are good with ASL when the kid can communicate more.

The kid will struggle her whole life with communication - even with CI - so why would the parents refuse the work to learn ASL for a few years? Maybe the parent's work shows the parents a tiny bit of the struggle of the kid and new thinking about deaf and deaf community - another big benefit. It is hard to be the one deaf kid in a hearing family IME so the family knowing ASL is the hearing family trying deaf life for once - probably all other times everything is about the deaf kid being in the hearing world. So learning ASL is a small work for hearing parents to reach the deaf kid.

-----CUT------

If I am right, Gallaudet do not support CS anymore, though it was invented at Gallaudet. I suspect some of the reasons was due to some of the points you make here. Some hearies seems to not realize how much freedom ASL really gives deaf people compared to CS.

 

[shel90]

If I am right, Gallaudet do not support CS anymore, though it was invented at Gallaudet. I suspect some of the reasons was due to some of the points you make here. Some hearies seems to not realize how much freedom ASL really gives deaf people compared to CS.

I know it was invented at Gally but as far as not supporting it anymore, I dont know. When I was in grad school there studying deaf education, they had CS classes for us. That was in 2002 so maybe things have changed since then. I will have to ask my friend who is a student now about this. Lemme page her.