The sun and the earth... on cued speech

Family First

shel90 said:
Now I am confused..u disagreeed with Kaitin when she said CS should come after a child has acquired a language.

Are we talking about language acquirement here or not?
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shel90- For deaf children of hearing families, I support CS as the system for the deaf child to aquire the family language, first. IE. English The hearing members of the family already have language. Using the system of CS, the family then shares their language with their child. The deaf child can/does aquire the family language via the system of CS. Who better to provide a fluent, accurate model , via the system of CS, of the language used in their family, than their own family.

If a hearing family is able to connect with an adult who is deaf and a fluent, accurate model of ASL, then, as I have stated numerous times, the child should be provided both.

Hope that clears it up.
 
loml said:
shel90- For deaf children of hearing families, I support CS as the system for the deaf child to aquire the family language, first. IE. English The hearing members of the family already have language. Using the system of CS, the family then shares their language with their child. The deaf child can/does aquire the family language via the system of CS. Who better to provide a fluent, accurate model , via the system of CS, of the language used in their family, than their own family.

If a hearing family is able to connect with an adult who is deaf and a fluent, accurate model of ASL, then, as I have stated numerous times, the child should be provided both.

Hope that clears it up.
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In other words, for 90% of deaf children, you recommend oral language first. See post #52. I knew it would come out sooner or later.
 
Cloggy said:
Is a 9-month old signing perfectly?...
....guessed so!



Leave it to JT to ignore an argument....
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No, cloggy, a 9 month old does not sign perfectly. But they do approximate the GROSS motor movements of ASL. Gross motor movements are the first in the developmental sequence. CS however, requires fine motor skills for the formation of the handshapes, and therefore, cannot be approximated as easily to discrimination as can ASL signs. And, I might add, that the 9 month old raised in an oral environment is not able to approximate the oral communication they are exposed to the same degree that the signing child is able to approximate ASL. Therefore, the ASL signing child is able to communicate at a much earlier age than the child who relies on speech.....whether they are hearing or deaf.

And I didn't ignore an argument at all. I responded. Inf act, you quoted my response. You are grasping at straws again in a feeble attempt to discredit me because its the only tactic you have available to you.
 
loml said:
shel90- For deaf children of hearing families, I support CS as the system for the deaf child to aquire the family language, first. IE. English The hearing members of the family already have language. Using the system of CS, the family then shares their language with their child. The deaf child can/does aquire the family language via the system of CS. Who better to provide a fluent, accurate model , via the system of CS, of the language used in their family, than their own family.

If a hearing family is able to connect with an adult who is deaf and a fluent, accurate model of ASL, then, as I have stated numerous times, the child should be provided both.

Hope that clears it up.
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Although I truly understand your line of reasoning I would still have to disagree.
I believe parents still have a responsibility to not only think about their primary
language but the childs potential needs for the future. If the family can learn
even SEE sign (which I would not require learning a whole new language but would still work with in your reasoning of using the family language) BUT would
make transition for that deaf child easier when they are exposed to the Deaf community and make communication with in the family less frustrating. You know
that aquiring verbal language is exhausting for the hearing impaired which leads
to frustration and frustration leads to decreased ability to learn. I think that SEE
sign or ASL used concurrently with oral approaches (and cued speech) would be
the best overall.
 
fredfam1 said:
You and Jillio are correct, one child of 7. The only one who
learned sign from birth, and the most advanced of all his
siblings. All of whom are doing well. There are only two
assumptions available here. Either I was only able to
produce one brilliant child, genetically out of the 7,
(which is highly doubtful as his dad is a brilliant man
so I would have had at least 2.5 of my children, (9
if all had made it) would have been born just as brillant
OR ASL from birth gave Chris that intellectual edge. I
feel certain it was ASL.
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Absolutely. Because of ASL, he was able to communicate a concept to you. However, I would venture to say that even as advanced as he was, he could not have achieved the vocalization + cue to communicate the same either through spoken language or spoken language + cues. I would venture to say that his tracking people across a crowded restaurant was also the result of ASL exposure increasing his visual awareness and acuity.
 
fredfam1 said:
Although I truly understand your line of reasoning I would still have to disagree.
I believe parents still have a responsibility to not only think about their primary
language but the childs potential needs for the future. If the family can learn
even SEE sign (which I would not require learning a whole new language but would still work with in your reasoning of using the family language) BUT would
make transition for that deaf child easier when they are exposed to the Deaf community and make communication with in the family less frustrating. You know
that aquiring verbal language is exhausting for the hearing impaired which leads
to frustration and frustration leads to decreased ability to learn. I think that SEE
sign or ASL used concurrently with oral approaches (and cued speech) would be
the best overall.
Click to expand...

:gpost:
 
fredfam1 said:
Although I truly understand your line of reasoning I would still have to disagree. I believe parents still have a responsibility to not only think about their primary language but the childs potential needs for the future. If the family can learn even SEE sign (which I would not require learning a whole new language but would still work with in your reasoning of using the family language) BUT would make transition for that deaf child easier when they are exposed to the Deaf community and make communication with in the family less frustrating. You know that aquiring verbal language is exhausting for the hearing impaired which leads
to frustration and frustration leads to decreased ability to learn. I think that SEE sign or ASL used concurrently with oral approaches (and cued speech) would be the best overall.
Click to expand...

fredfam: Cued Speech is not about oral approaches. Seriously, I don't understand why I have to constantly be repeating myself.

As I mentioned earlier fredfam, I am a user of CS, I know how to use and what it can accomplish for a deaf/hoh/hearing child. As your are apparently a free thinker and teaching your hearing children ASL, I will be so bold as to share with you, your hearing children would also benefit from CS for English.
Hearing children are "thirsty" too see the sounds of words. I know I do it everyday, the younger the better.

I am well aware of how challenging an oral edcuation can be. I simply find it beyond reasonable comprehension the need for some people to continuously discredit a system such as Cued Speech, when in actuality it removes ambiguity for the people who choose and oral approach. This is not rocket science.... so ... go figure.
 
jillio said:
No, cloggy, a 9 month old does not sign perfectly. But they do approximate the GROSS motor movements of ASL. Gross motor movements are the first in the developmental sequence. CS however, requires fine motor skills for the formation of the handshapes, and therefore, cannot be approximated as easily to discrimination as can ASL signs.
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jillio - Baby Sign = Baby Cues
 
loml said:
jillio - Baby Sign = Baby Cues
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Hardly. Baby Sign can be approximated with gross motor movement. Baby cues require fine motor skills. If you knew anything about chidl development, you would already know that.
 
loml said:
fredfam: Cued Speech is not about oral approaches. Seriously, I don't understand why I have to constantly be repeating myself.

You are contradicting yourself and your organization again.
As I mentioned earlier fredfam, I am a user of CS, I know how to use and what it can accomplish for a deaf/hoh/hearing child. As your are apparently a free thinker and teaching your hearing children ASL, I will be so bold as to share with you, your hearing children would also benefit from CS for English.
Hearing children are "thirsty" too see the sounds of words. I know I do it everyday, the younger the better.

Where did you come up with that one? I'd like to see the research to support that.:giggle:

I am well aware of how challenging an oral edcuation can be. I simply find it beyond reasonable comprehension the need for some people to continuously discredit a system such as Cued Speech, when in actuality it removes ambiguity for the people who choose and oral approach. This is not rocket science.... so ... go figure.
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Now you are contradicting yourself int he same post. You need to quit while you're still breaking even.
 
jillio said:
Hardly. Baby Sign can be approximated with gross motor movement. Baby cues require fine motor skills. If you knew anything about chidl development, you would already know that.
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Considering you have never learned how to cue, nor to you work with children who cue, your comments are of a person with no experience or education about CS.
 
loml said:
Considering you have never learned how to cue, nor to you work with children who cue, your comments are of a person with no experience or education about CS.
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loml...

You are forgetting something. You think outside Jillio's bubble...

Some people live in their own world and in that world they are expert at everything, and know more than the experts. They will tell the experts how wrong they are....
Its a funny world. Not many people, not many people smiling (imaging, telling everyone that they are wrong. Not an easy task)
 
loml said:
fredfam: Cued Speech is not about oral approaches. Seriously, I don't understand why I have to constantly be repeating myself.

As I mentioned earlier fredfam, I am a user of CS, I know how to use and what it can accomplish for a deaf/hoh/hearing child. As your are apparently a free thinker and teaching your hearing children ASL, I will be so bold as to share with you, your hearing children would also benefit from CS for English.
Hearing children are "thirsty" too see the sounds of words. I know I do it everyday, the younger the better.

I am well aware of how challenging an oral edcuation can be. I simply find it beyond reasonable comprehension the need for some people to continuously discredit a system such as Cued Speech, when in actuality it removes ambiguity for the people who choose and oral approach. This is not rocket science.... so ... go figure.
Click to expand...

Actually I'm way ahead of you. Prior to coming to alldeaf I knew nothing
about CS and little of CI. Each time I read one of your debates I promptly
begin researching myself. (Kaitin and I must be related:giggle:) I found the videos of CS fascinating. I almost can't take my eyes off it. I would like to learn it and have added it to my list of new things to learn. sigh. Right now I am trying to learn things that will improve my receptive skills. (any ideas?) I only know one Deaf family well enough that would let me stay with them for 2 weeks but then my family would fall apart without me! Our church has what we call Camp Meetings in the summers. A weeks worth of camping for like minded people. Well I've decided to go to next summers Deaf Camp meeting! I should end up exhausted but with my receptive skills much improved. And I can bring the little ones too! Total Immersion! So did I read I only have to learn 20 hand positions? Even poor dsylexic me might be able to master that!
 
Those video's are impressive.!! (I guess you mean this one.)

On the britisch CS website there are more impressive video's. You can order them as well. (Free of charge. LOL :bye: JT)
 
loml said:
Considering you have never learned how to cue, nor to you work with children who cue, your comments are of a person with no experience or education about CS.
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It doesn't take experience to see the handshapes that are necessary for cueing. Knowledge of the childhood developmental cycles leads one to a very logical conclusion. Perhaps all you know is cueing, and that makes it difficult for you to sythesize other pertinent information.
 
loml said:
LOL
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I'm glad you find language deprivation funny.:eek3:

shel90- For deaf children of hearing families, I support CS as the system for the deaf child to aquire the family language, first. IE. English The hearing members of the family already have language.

I guess your own words are coming back to haunt you:
 
Cloggy said:
loml...

You are forgetting something. You think outside Jillio's bubble...

Some people live in their own world and in that world they are expert at everything, and know more than the experts. They will tell the experts how wrong they are....
Its a funny world. Not many people, not many people smiling (imaging, telling everyone that they are wrong. Not an easy task)
Click to expand...

And some, like you, are expert in nothing.
 
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