Tactile signing
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I've heard of finger braille where the fingers are used like a perkins keyboard but I don't know about a quirtzy keyboard. I am using a quirtzy keyboard at the moment but would prefere a braille keyboard as sometimes I have to make a guess for some letters. A braille keyboard would be easy.
Mrs bucket: would you mind telling me which is easier print on palm or Tandoma?
Fingerspelling the british deafblind manual is the only method I know although that can be hard too if people don't do the lettrs properly. I can understand print on palm sometimes, but sometimes it's very difficult. It depends if people do it properly or not.
Mrs bucket: would you mind telling me which is easier print on palm or Tandoma?
Fingerspelling the british deafblind manual is the only method I know although that can be hard too if people don't do the lettrs properly. I can understand print on palm sometimes, but sometimes it's very difficult. It depends if people do it properly or not.
Hi Aleser:
By tactile speech reading do you mean the tandoma aproach? I've never really tried it. I'm learning tactile signing right now but main communication methods are finger spelling and print on palm.
Another method I'd like to try is finger braille, and maybe Tandoma just to see if I could figure it out.
Helene
By tactile speech reading do you mean the tandoma aproach? I've never really tried it. I'm learning tactile signing right now but main communication methods are finger spelling and print on palm.
Another method I'd like to try is finger braille, and maybe Tandoma just to see if I could figure it out.
Helene
Dreama: I mean tadoma, yes.
Print on palm is definitely easier than tadoma, but the deafblind manual is imho the absolute easiest. There's some confusion for me when people write the letters on my palm because some are similar, and not everyone moves the same way, but deafblind manual is always roughly the same and as such extremely easy.
tactile speechreading, on the other hand, requires extreme awareness of the physical mechanisms used to produce every sound in the language to even attempt to understand, and most people cannot, anyways.
It's worth attempting, I suppose, but I would personally suggest you commit to tactile signing first and get up your communication skills with that first. I am very excited because I will soon be spending a week with someone I can sign with all the time so I should improve my rusted up skills.
Print on palm is definitely easier than tadoma, but the deafblind manual is imho the absolute easiest. There's some confusion for me when people write the letters on my palm because some are similar, and not everyone moves the same way, but deafblind manual is always roughly the same and as such extremely easy.
tactile speechreading, on the other hand, requires extreme awareness of the physical mechanisms used to produce every sound in the language to even attempt to understand, and most people cannot, anyways.
It's worth attempting, I suppose, but I would personally suggest you commit to tactile signing first and get up your communication skills with that first. I am very excited because I will soon be spending a week with someone I can sign with all the time so I should improve my rusted up skills.
Aleser: Thanks for your advise. My tutor who teaches me is on holiday at the moment. When she gets back I'm hoping we can carry on learning. She is very patient as I'm not as fast a learner as I'd like to be. I still persist and hopefully I get there in the end.
I wish you luck wiht your week of signing.
I wish you luck wiht your week of signing.
I will need it! I've been so lazy and forgotten a lot of signs, so we will probably be stumbling over ourselves, haha.
I like the print on palm system for a bit, but if the other person writes too much on my palm, it starts to feel numb and tingly after awhile.
The only person I can recognize by hands is my wife.
I am also trying the fingerspelled ASL alphabet in my palm, which is the easiest for a lot of letters, although sometimes I have a hard time differentiating some of the letters and remembering some.
For example with one-hand ASL in palm, how do you differentiate P and K? G and Q?
I know the Perkins Braille layout but don't know anyone else that does. The QWERTY layout works well when the other person emphasizes the separate letters.
All of these systems are really hard to understand if the other person gets "lazy."
The only person I can recognize by hands is my wife.
I am also trying the fingerspelled ASL alphabet in my palm, which is the easiest for a lot of letters, although sometimes I have a hard time differentiating some of the letters and remembering some.
For example with one-hand ASL in palm, how do you differentiate P and K? G and Q?
I know the Perkins Braille layout but don't know anyone else that does. The QWERTY layout works well when the other person emphasizes the separate letters.
All of these systems are really hard to understand if the other person gets "lazy."
Mrs Bucket
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At first it becomes hard, yes and this is where you need to do hand exercises so you don't develop carpal tunnel.
Your hands and fingers are VERY important to you. Make sure you take good care of them. Moisturize them, if you can do this... take a cooking course offered by the DB community.
I know I had to relearn how to chop food because I kept chopping at my fingers & cutting at the tips of my fingers and it was painful. I would burn myself reaching into the stove.
CNIB taught me how to chop food, how to put the sharp knives away safely until it was time to be washed, handle hot dishes and I kick hubby out of the kitchen so I feel comfortable. Well.. too many chefs spoil the soup! HA HA!
As for print on palm..
This website provides in detailed format and it does rely on both you and your wife to train together.
Block Alphabet Page
Your hands and fingers are VERY important to you. Make sure you take good care of them. Moisturize them, if you can do this... take a cooking course offered by the DB community.
I know I had to relearn how to chop food because I kept chopping at my fingers & cutting at the tips of my fingers and it was painful. I would burn myself reaching into the stove.
CNIB taught me how to chop food, how to put the sharp knives away safely until it was time to be washed, handle hot dishes and I kick hubby out of the kitchen so I feel comfortable. Well.. too many chefs spoil the soup! HA HA!
As for print on palm..
This website provides in detailed format and it does rely on both you and your wife to train together.
Block Alphabet Page
Mrs Bucket
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Aleser is correct that Print on Palm is much easier than Tadoma.
I grew up being exposed to all kinds of communication systems and this was like Sim-Com/TC, Cued Speech, Bi-Bi, ASL, SEE all because my parents thought it was best to expose my sisters and I to everything possible.
Guess what, it was the best decision they made. They mainstreamed us and our first language was ASL although we spoke quite well.
I hated going to speech therapy and would feign some imaginary illness each time I had to go. Looking back, it was those helped me a lot.
Tadoma is not an easy way and it takes a lot physically and it's not something I do daily because my shoulders ache after half-hour of Tadoma.
Aleser explained everything well what she goes through, I go through that too as well.
The insensitive "Yoo hoo.. remma me??!?!" waving game in our faces is just stupid, period.
Just what happened to the same person they were before we lost our vision? Losing our vision isn't a license for some people to act like a complete doofus in front of us.
I grew up being exposed to all kinds of communication systems and this was like Sim-Com/TC, Cued Speech, Bi-Bi, ASL, SEE all because my parents thought it was best to expose my sisters and I to everything possible.
Guess what, it was the best decision they made. They mainstreamed us and our first language was ASL although we spoke quite well.
I hated going to speech therapy and would feign some imaginary illness each time I had to go. Looking back, it was those helped me a lot.
Tadoma is not an easy way and it takes a lot physically and it's not something I do daily because my shoulders ache after half-hour of Tadoma.
Aleser explained everything well what she goes through, I go through that too as well.
The insensitive "Yoo hoo.. remma me??!?!" waving game in our faces is just stupid, period.
Just what happened to the same person they were before we lost our vision? Losing our vision isn't a license for some people to act like a complete doofus in front of us.
I learned a technique on how to chop food blind. I bend my fingers so that the first thing the knife will touch is my knuckles, but the knife will touch them at an angle so that it won't cut into my skin. It protects the tips of my fingers and nails. Is this the technique you learned at CNIB?
Thank you so much for the website!
I already have arthritis in my hands so finger spelling can be very painful. Unfortunately it's a question of necessity though, since my other two channels are blocked in noisy environments. Are there any techniques or modifications I can make to finger spelling? For example signing X and R is very difficult for me.
I couldn't agree more. It gets old very quickly!
What did you think of Cued speach?
FireTiger
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Demonstrate for the other signer to drag the letter in the direction it usually points when facing 'you'.
so they would put the 'k' in your hand then move slightly sideways (I said sideways because I can only do manual left handed)
If they 'p' (pee) in your hand wipe it on them.
- no actually they would move it towards your pinky or 'down' (some will move it farther into your hand others will assume the pinky is the 'down'.'g' would be just like 'p' across your hand', 'q' well you could wait for a 'u' but it would be moved 'down' like 'p' was.
'j' and 'z' drawn on the whole palm- then 'shown', 'x' is shown first then moved like the 'x' does.
Of course this was signing manual to blind friends that wanted me to show then another way to communicate- most of them have... 5-6 languages I have 1 and '2 halves' (half in Spanish, half in SEE)
This worked well for the 4 of us, but trying to have a conversation in manual is hard as poor a speller as I am. (We played 'telephone'
)I also learned to keep my other hand under there w/o holding on, just under so they could feel the tension in my non-signing hand if I was about to 'drop' a 'down' letter -- or when I needed to 'erase' letters-- which is often.
(erase) Instead of the 'normal' erase I'd use my hand like a knife edge (full palm kept being read as 'b') and 'sweep away' the letters already signed.
This was all improvise tho-
Demonstrate for the other signer to drag the letter in the direction it usually points when facing 'you'.
so they would put the 'k' in your hand then move slightly sideways (I said sideways because I can only do manual left handed)
If they 'p' (pee) in your hand wipe it on them.
'g' would be just like 'p' across your hand', 'q' well you could wait for a 'u' but it would be moved 'down' like 'p' was.
'j' and 'z' drawn on the whole palm- then 'shown', 'x' is shown first then moved like the 'x' does.
Of course this was signing manual to blind friends that wanted me to show then another way to communicate- most of them have... 5-6 languages I have 1 and '2 halves' (half in Spanish, half in SEE)
This worked well for the 4 of us, but trying to have a conversation in manual is hard as poor a speller as I am. (We played 'telephone'
I also learned to keep my other hand under there w/o holding on, just under so they could feel the tension in my non-signing hand if I was about to 'drop' a 'down' letter -- or when I needed to 'erase' letters-- which is often.
(erase) Instead of the 'normal' erase I'd use my hand like a knife edge (full palm kept being read as 'b') and 'sweep away' the letters already signed.
This was all improvise tho-
I appreciate the detailed description. I'm having a hard time understand what you mean by "wiping it" on them and moving it towards the pinky? I also don't know what you mean by "drawn" then "shown" or "shown" then "drawn" (as you mentioned for J, Z and X). Thanks.
FireTiger
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CJB
Manual (fingerspelling) for "J" is a pinky curved in the air to form the letter 'j' so I would 'draw' the 'j' on your paml, really big then I would allow you to 'see' (touch) the hand shape I made it with.
for "Z" the index finger is used, so even if my hands are shaky when I spell to you you can 'see' which letter I ment by which finger I used.
for "X" as it uses motion and a strange hand position I would put the 'finnished x' hand in your hand so you could feel the position of my fingers and then move the index finger as the 'x' letter is done in the air.
For erasing- that might just be confusing, but when I spell into a hand the and is 'sideways' to me like a chalkboard or parallel with me like a paper-
sometimes I give the wrong letter or misspell something so I have to let you know that I have to start that word over.
in the air in manual this looks like erasing a chalkboard - (kinda)
in your hand I would move from the thumb side (that may be left to right, right to left or top to bottom depending on which of your hands is better at reading manual.) towards the pinky of your hand using my hand um.... like a 'b' with the thumb towards the sky and my pinky dragging across your hand so it doesn't 'feel' like any other letter.
I actually 'erase' the word I misspelled all the way off of your hand, another way it feels different from a normal letter which are all placed in your palm, towards your fingers.
I hope this helped.
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"P"- "whipping pee" on them, urine? It was a bad pun. - sorry
Manual (fingerspelling) for "J" is a pinky curved in the air to form the letter 'j' so I would 'draw' the 'j' on your paml, really big then I would allow you to 'see' (touch) the hand shape I made it with.
for "Z" the index finger is used, so even if my hands are shaky when I spell to you you can 'see' which letter I ment by which finger I used.
for "X" as it uses motion and a strange hand position I would put the 'finnished x' hand in your hand so you could feel the position of my fingers and then move the index finger as the 'x' letter is done in the air.
For erasing- that might just be confusing, but when I spell into a hand the and is 'sideways' to me like a chalkboard or parallel with me like a paper-
sometimes I give the wrong letter or misspell something so I have to let you know that I have to start that word over.
in the air in manual this looks like erasing a chalkboard - (kinda)
in your hand I would move from the thumb side (that may be left to right, right to left or top to bottom depending on which of your hands is better at reading manual.) towards the pinky of your hand using my hand um.... like a 'b' with the thumb towards the sky and my pinky dragging across your hand so it doesn't 'feel' like any other letter.
I actually 'erase' the word I misspelled all the way off of your hand, another way it feels different from a normal letter which are all placed in your palm, towards your fingers.
I hope this helped.
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"P"- "whipping pee" on them, urine? It was a bad pun. - sorry
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I understand much better now, thanks. The J and Z make sense. For X I thought the bent index finger was just held. I didn't know there was a movement to it? What's the movement?
I still don't understand how you differentiate P and K, G and Q.
I still don't understand how you differentiate P and K, G and Q.
FireTiger
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"X" the index finger moves to the bent position... doesn't it??!?!? ....
P - the air sign is pointed down/vertical (like a little boy taking a ... aww... I shouldn't)
K - the air sign is pointed horizontal/sideways
Q - the air sign is pointed down/vertical
G - the air sign is pointed horizontal/sideways
So to 'know' Q/P from K/G is like this.
There are two possible ways. I will keep them separate. I personally always sign into a hand with my non-signing hand underneath- you will see why.
1) The person places the letter in your hand then when you close your fingers to feel the letter the person gently lowers the hand if the sign is in the air vertical/down, if the air sign is horizontal/sideways they gently move your hand sideways (in one direction).
2) The person places the letter in your hand and as/before you close to feel it move the hand in the direction the letter is in the air.
a) if the person is siting directly in front of you the start at your palm and move towards your fingers for 'down/vertical' and from thumb towards pinky for 'sideways/horizontal' never crossing off of your hand so you can then feel the letter.
b) if the person is sitting perpendicular to you ... I suggest way #1
I hope this helps, this is very hard in writing!
Oh with my non signing hand underneath when I remove my hand completely my sentence is done, when I briefly move it the word is finished when I need to motion up or down, left or right the the 'other' hand (in my case right) will move that direction too.
P - the air sign is pointed down/vertical (like a little boy taking a ... aww... I shouldn't)
K - the air sign is pointed horizontal/sideways
Q - the air sign is pointed down/vertical
G - the air sign is pointed horizontal/sideways
So to 'know' Q/P from K/G is like this.
There are two possible ways. I will keep them separate. I personally always sign into a hand with my non-signing hand underneath- you will see why.
1) The person places the letter in your hand then when you close your fingers to feel the letter the person gently lowers the hand if the sign is in the air vertical/down, if the air sign is horizontal/sideways they gently move your hand sideways (in one direction).
2) The person places the letter in your hand and as/before you close to feel it move the hand in the direction the letter is in the air.
a) if the person is siting directly in front of you the start at your palm and move towards your fingers for 'down/vertical' and from thumb towards pinky for 'sideways/horizontal' never crossing off of your hand so you can then feel the letter.
b) if the person is sitting perpendicular to you ... I suggest way #1
I hope this helps, this is very hard in writing!
Oh with my non signing hand underneath when I remove my hand completely my sentence is done, when I briefly move it the word is finished when I need to motion up or down, left or right the the 'other' hand (in my case right) will move that direction too.
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