Survey of Bi-Bi programs - Empirical Article

[jillio]

Total Communication was not the only method, there were oral and cued speech also. :roll:

Total Communication and Oral methods were popular for a long time, so don't start pointing fingers at one method.

Please read the statement you have taken the time to bold. I did not say that it was the only program. I said that it was the one used in the vast majority of programs. BTW, CS fits into the TC umbrella.:roll: Mainstreamed with a terp fits into the TC umbrella, as well. And, quite frankly, I approve no more of an oral only method than of a TC method. In fact, oral only is much less advantageous than a TC classroom. Both have done untold damage to the learning of deaf students.

Please refrain from telling me what I must do with my fingers.

 

[flip]

Daredevel indeed does an excellent job of seeing through the fluff to the actuality of the situation, and then expressing herself effectively.

I guess I fall outside the mainstream as a hearing person, because this type of information is what takes a priority for me. The research is secondary, in that it supports the many personal experiences related to me, and those that I have witnessed first hand. The research seems to be necessary to support the argument to those that do not have the experience, or have not experienced the situation first hand. Or, for whatever reason, refuse to accept the stories and experiences of those that have.

I thought it could be interesting to bring up what studies of deaf culture and hearing culture tell us. Of course, it's not possible to make a clear line, and say you are this and you that. I have high respect for research you pull up, as I have for anyone that pull up research with content, and aware of your personal lifetime long experience with all aspect of deafness.

But I have to admit I read that hearing mainstreamed people tend to react negative and say they do not share traits or belong to a culture when accused for doing so, while deaf people dont' raise an eyebrow, even if they are insulted as a group. This is perhaps a bit true as two hearing people allready have claimed they do not fit into the mainstream culture, while only one deaf have done something similar here. Ok, don't want to be picky and insult people unecessary here. Jillio, we know you are an exception with your close ties to the deaf culture anyway.

I foumd this stuff in one book I am reading, written by an american ASL interpreter about intercultural interactions, it's at home, don't remember the name. Really interesting stuff for those who teach bicultural topics or work with deaf people. You perhaps know this book?

 

[Cloggy]

Come on, smile... just kidding...

 

[Angel]

hmm...

If the TC program has failed the majority as you claim because you've witnessed it for 20 something years, then tell me why more deaf children as today still attend both Total Communication and Bi-Bi programs?..

 

[Tousi]

Cheri talking about someone who has no experience in deaf education!

Ok, Angel, that hearing person (already mentioned the name before) has some general education but was mostly talking about what she saw. That was my impression.

 

[jillio]

I thought it could be interesting to bring up what studies of deaf culture and hearing culture tell us. Of course, it's not possible to make a clear line, and say you are this and you that. I have high respect for research you pull up, as I have for anyone that pull up research with content, and aware of your personal lifetime long experience with all aspect of deafness.

But I have to admit I read that hearing mainstreamed people tend to react negative and say they do not share traits or belong to a culture when accused for doing so, while deaf people dont' raise an eyebrow, even if they are insulted as a group. This is perhaps a bit true as two hearing people allready have claimed they do not fit into the mainstream culture, while only one deaf have done something similar here. Ok, don't want to be picky and insult people unecessary here. Jillio, we know you are an exception with your close ties to the deaf culture anyway.

I foumd this stuff in one book I am reading, written by an american ASL interpreter about intercultural interactions, it's at home, don't remember the name. Really interesting stuff for those who teach bicultural topics or work with deaf people. You perhaps know this book?

I would tend to agree with you. Hearing people rarely recognize their cultural affiliations, unless they are also a member of another subculture, such as African American or Hispanic American, or Asian American. Those that are members of other subcultures seem to very well aware of the ways in which that culture has influenced their attitudes, behaviors and beliefs.

I have read so many books on Deaf Culture that it is difficult for me to decide which one you are speaking of. But, if when you have time, you could give me a title, I would know whether or not I have read it.

 

[jillio]

hmm...

If the TC program has failed the majority as you claim because you've witnessed it for 20 something years, then tell me why more deaf children as today still attend both Total Communication and Bi-Bi programs?..

More children don't attend bi-bi programs. And children continue to attend TC programs because people are willing to accept the status quo rather than to make the effort to stand up and demand excellence in education for deaf children.

And, it is not just me that claims it. The research supports it, and the literacy rates of deaf children support it, and many many deaf adults support it. Tell me, how do you explain the embarrassingly low literacy rates of deaf children? If my explanation is wrong,as you seem to be suggesting it is, then there must be an alternative explanation. What is it?

 

[jillio]

Ok, Angel, that hearing person (already mentioned the name before) has some general education but was mostly talking about what she saw. That was my impression.

Mine as well.

 

[Cheri]

Please read the statement you have taken the time to bold. I did not say that it was the only program. I said that it was the one used in the vast majority of programs. BTW, CS fits into the TC umbrella.:roll: Mainstreamed with a terp fits into the TC umbrella, as well. And, quite frankly, I approve no more of an oral only method than of a TC method. In fact, oral only is much less advantageous than a TC classroom. Both have done untold damage to the learning of deaf students.

Please refrain from telling me what I must do with my fingers.

Cued speech does not only fits into TC umbrella.. Cued Speech is compatible with oral/aural, total communication and bilingual philosophies communication.

loml is an expert on Cued Speech, I would like to see what she/he says on this.

 

[Angel]

More children don't attend bi-bi programs. And children continue to attend TC programs because people are willing to accept the status quo rather than to make the effort to stand up and demand excellence in education for deaf children.

And, it is not just me that claims it. The research supports it, and the literacy rates of deaf children support it, and many many deaf adults support it. Tell me, how do you explain the embarrassingly low literacy rates of deaf children?

Perhaps if you can please show me the research article that stated that TC program had fail the majority of deaf children.

 

[jillio]

Cued speech does not only fits into TC umbrella.. Cued Speech is compatible with oral/aural, total communication and bilingual philosophies communication.

loml is an expert on Cued Speech, I would like to see what she/he says on this.

Well, you are incorrect on this one, Cheri. CS very much fits into the umbrella of TC. And it is not oral only. Oral only requires no visual cues. It could be used as a teaching tool in Bi-Bi, but only as a teaching tool, and not as a communication system.

Perhaps you should refresh yourself on the system of TC.

 

[Jiro]

Perhaps if you can please show me the research article that stated that TC program had fail the majority of deaf children.

look thru several pages back. Plenty of links/sources there.

 

[jillio]

Total Communication: Learning to Use Different Communication Methods
Read this page to learn what total communication is, and if it's right for your child.

What total communication (TC) is

TC is a way of teaching children with hearing loss.
TC encourages children with hearing loss to communicate with hearing people and each other.
TC uses both seeing and hearing to communicate.

A child who is taught using total communication may learn many skills:

Listening by using what hearing she has left
Communicating with sign language
Talking
Getting her ideas across with gestures and body language
Understanding others through reading lips, listening and/or sign language
Learning cued speech. Cued speech is a system of special handshapes and positions used when someone talks. It helps a person with hearing loss understand when someone speaks.

Raising Deaf Kids

 

[jillio]

look thru several pages back. Plenty of links/sources there.

Thank you. There are many, many sources. One only has to go back and read.

Liewise, I keep asking, and no one has answered. If what I claim is wrong, as it is being suggested, then what is the alternative explanation for the embarrassingly low literacy scores of deaf children?

 

[Cheri]

Well, you are incorrect on this one, Cheri. CS very much fits into the umbrella of TC. And it is not oral only. Oral only requires no visual cues. It could be used as a teaching tool in Bi-Bi, but only as a teaching tool, and not as a communication system.

Perhaps you should refresh yourself on the system of TC.

Oh yeah??

CSL: Center for Learning : Information Packets

Cued Speech is compatible with oral/aural, bilingual / multi-lingual, and total communication philosophies, enhancing instruction and communication in each mode.

Cued Speech is compatible with both oral/aural approaches (amplifying any residual hearing or using a cochlear implant) and with the use of sign language

Cued Speech - unique access to spoken language - About Cued Speech

Cued Speech is compatible with auditory, oral, bilingual, and total communication philosophies.

An Outline of Cued Speech Pamela Beck, National Cued Speech Association January 2001 Audiology Online

By the way I took cued speech, I know what I'm talking about more than you know. Don't ever say a deaf person is wrong; when they experience it first hand.

 

[Angel]

look thru several pages back. Plenty of links/sources there.

Still, I do not see where it stated that "TC program had fail the majority of deaf children".

 

[jillio]

Oh yeah??

CSL: Center for Learning : Information Packets



Cued Speech - unique access to spoken language - About Cued Speech

An Outline of Cued Speech Pamela Beck, National Cued Speech Association January 2001 Audiology Online

You do realize, don't you, that you have just supported my point that CS falls under the umbrella of TC? Thank you.

 

[jillio]

Still, I do not see where it stated that "TC program had fail the majority of deaf children".

Keep reading.

 

[jillio]

Come on, smile... just kidding...

Old joke. That has been hanging on my refrigerator for the last 15 years! In fact, I posted it a couple of times on AD.

Okay, back on topic.

 

[Cloggy]

Old joke. That has been hanging on my refrigerator for the last 15 years! In fact, I posted it a couple of times on AD.

Okay, back on topic.

Just one more... Then you can put a new one on the fridge...

REconsidered...

OK... back to the topic you all.. fun's over.!