Start with spoken language or ASL?

[Oceanbreeze]

I seriously think it's time to lock this thread. There's tons of rude and insulting posts in here and it's just degenerated the conversation to an unbelievably immature level.

Where's the moderatiors?

 

[shel90]

I seriously think it's time to lock this thread. There's tons of rude and insulting posts in here and it's just degenerated the conversation to an unbelievably immature level.

Where's the moderatiors?

I agre...Lock this thread!

 

[Daredevel7]

Aww... aside from a few people, I thought Shel90 and others made really good and interesting points. Do we hafta lock this thread? I agree that we need moderators! Also, there were times people took things WAY too sensitively but I could tell they only read the most recent post, so it seems worse than it really is.

 

[shel90]

Aww... aside from a few people, I thought Shel90 and others made really good and interesting points. Do we hafta lock this thread? I agree that we need moderators! Also, there were times people took things WAY too sensitively but I could tell they only read the most recent post, so it seems worse than it really is.

Thanks for the support but I just felt like there was an indication of some bigotry against deaf signers and I am not interested in being part of it.

Maybe the mods can remove the offensive posts and we can continue with this and learn from each other.

 

[Hear Again]

Dont you hate those generalizations?

Shel,

Yes, I do. I try my best not to get upset when uneducated people make them, but sometimes they (the generalizations) get the better of me.

 

[shel90]

Shel,

Yes, I do. I try my best not to get upset when uneducated people make them, but sometimes they (the generalizations) get the better of me.

Hey, pls do not worry about getting upset. I get tired of the generalizations about ASL, Deaf signers, Deaf culture, and Deaf schools. You have every right to get upset and be blunt with those who make inaccurate statements.

 

[Hear Again]

Generally on LARGER scale and for the sake of practicality... writing via pen/paper is impractical for blind people but I wasn't really referring to writing a simple note limited to a few words. I'm talking about writing a paper... several pages worth.

In that case, then yes, I agree -- writing on paper would be impractical.

I believe my post was misunderstanding on some part. I want to clarify myself - I was actually referring "ASL + ENGLISH + ORAL" in a very basic, primitive sense with absence of technology. ASL is done by hands. English is done by speaking and writing on paper. Oral is done by speaking. All of above without the assistance of technology. I wasn't really thinking of it in context of visual disability because well... this is a deaf forum after all lol.

Okay. I think that is where my original misunderstanding originated. My apologies for not asking you to clarify.

But yes you are right - we're misunderstanding with each other on a general term. In short - all kinds of disabled people are not useless because there are many technology available for us to do same duty as non-disabled people.

Agreed 100%.

e

 

[Daredevel7]

Yea... where the mods at?!

 

[Hear Again]

Hey, pls do not worry about getting upset. I get tired of the generalizations about ASL, Deaf signers, Deaf culture, and Deaf schools. You have every right to get upset and be blunt with those who make inaccurate statements.

Thank you, Shel.

 

[doofenslim]

Don't lock this thread, I think this is one of the best I've read. Why you ask? Strong opinions are being revealed in this thread, leading to some good discussion. Granted there were some point where the thread went off topic but there was always a form of discussion.

And I disagree with mods deleting posts, that is just flat-out censorship. Leave it as it is, and if people don't like it, they don't have to read it.

 

[doofenslim]

Aww... aside from a few people, I thought Shel90 and others made really good and interesting points. Do we hafta lock this thread? I agree that we need moderators! Also, there were times people took things WAY too sensitively but I could tell they only read the most recent post, so it seems worse than it really is.

That's the problem, people don't read the thread before judging.

 

[Daredevel7]

Sooooo.... does this mean we can continue??

 

[shel90]

Don't lock this thread, I think this is one of the best I've read. Why you ask? Strong opinions are being revealed in this thread, leading to some good discussion. Granted there were some point where the thread went off topic but there was always a form of discussion.

And I disagree with mods deleting posts, that is just flat-out censorship. Leave it as it is, and if people don't like it, they don't have to read it.

That's the rules here on AD. The mods will delete threads that are offensive. Has happened in the past so I guess we, longtime AD members, are used to it.

 

[doofenslim]

That's the rules here on AD. The mods will delete threads that are offensive. Has happened in the past so I guess we, longtime AD members, are used to it.

I understand that, what mods can do is find a common ground and bring a calm solution to offensive situations without siding with one side.

 

[jillio]

i'm sorry but u are very wrong on that. IQ ABSOLUTELY has A LOT to do with learning. IQ and learning a language are definitley connected in some way. Earlier posts have mentioned how the sense of sight (naturally) becomes stronger since the sense of hearing is lacking - as someone who relies a lot on lip reading (and as a professional photographer, haha) i must agree with this, i do believe that sense of sight does become "enhanced" to compensate. However! we are all forgetting the most important organ involved in hearing (i.e. HEARING AS IN UNDERSTANDING) and that would be the BRAIN! the immediate sense associated with hearing/seeing/understanding would be eyes & ears. But the thing is, the ROOT of all these senses is neurological. it goes much deeper than just using ur eyes & ears to understand what is being said.
I was very lucky and had an "unconventional" speech therapist, she CHALLENGED my brain. her methods and teachings forced me to USE the hearing I had. A baby's brain is like wet clay, u must make it WORK. and the sooner this is done, the better.

Please read whay I say, and don't interject your own interpretation into it. I said "IQ has nothing to do with a human's innate caqpacity to acquire language." The process of lanugauge acquisition and directive learning are two different concepts and processes.

And, if you would like to discuss the cognitive processes and neurological implications as applied to the learning process, I will be more than happy to discuss such with you. However, you will need to start another thread for that purpose.

 

[Buffalo]

Shel, since you're experienced in the field of deaf education, would you do me the honors of helping me create the pros and cons of each of the 2 scenarios below? Anyone else can help! I could be totally wrong, but at least its a start.

1) Teaching ASL first
Pro - Child is MORE likely will develop language/communication, and possibly quicker than spoken English.
Con - Speech is more likely to be delayed. Being mainstreamed is more likely to be delayed.
2) Teaching Spoken English first
Pro - Child learns language/communication and speech simultaneously and can be mainstreamed much earlier.
Con - Child is LESS likely to develop language/communication. Language is more likely to be delayed. Being mainstreamed is more likely to be delayed if child does not respond well to spoken English.

Does that just about sum it up?

So you bought the myth that ASL will delay the speech???? I had speech therapy when I was very young (oral school) and again at a college (ASL). They both are different as day and night. The college teacher can tell me where I had went wrong easily. The first teacher wasn't able to tell me exactly what I had went wrong. How can I learn speech if I didn't understand where I went wrong? How I can stay on the oral path if the teacher show impatience (I can pick that up in her expression)? That would push me away.

If a hearing baby learn ASL and has a larger vocabulary as result. Why deny a deaf baby ASL and thus limit the vocabulary???

 

[jillio]

That girl just exaggerate. Doesn't mean she's dumb. Unless you're saying that anyone with boobs are dumb. Including jillio?! HAHAHA. I'm so bashful.

Sweetie, I'll match my intelligence against yours any day of the week. It would be an effortless contest on my part.

 

[jillio]

a parrot is really poor example... u cannot compare a bird to a human. there is no logic in that comparison.
In order to be able to speak -and have it make sense - one needs to be able to comprehend what is being spoken. Regarding HUMANS, productive functions & receptive functions go hand-in-hand. How well and how quickly that skill is acquired IS indeed related on one's brain and intelligence.

Open your mind and think out of the box. Given the context of the discussion, it is a perfectly logical and valid comparison.

 

[jillio]

A genius, but bored with what was given.

Been there, done that, seen it all.

A legend in your own mind!:roll:

 

[jillio]

This takes us back to the original question. Do you think that deaf children learning ASL + Oral at the same time is the optimal in terms of progression in writing/literacy/speech skills? I feel that learning to speak English and sign language at the exact same time will cause deaf children to rely on sign language more since its easier, especially if they are surrounded by other deaf children. So it's quite not 50/50. The question is... what should be the primary?

You might think it, but the results of such a method point decidedly in the other direction.