Start with spoken language or ASL?

[imdeafsowhat]

EXACTLY! its predominately hearing, so therefore, in general circumstances, its best to have the child start with spoken language. Since that is probably the most challenging. My philosophy is meet the strongest challenge head on! And then implement ASL into their learning. then viola! they got the best of both worlds the worst thing u can do to a child is isolate them.

I once tried to isolate myself, but my mother was like, "why?" I answered, "because I'm different." She said, "Being different makes us who we are. Not only that, but what we do shows who we are truly." I answered, "But what I do is ignite agruments that I'm deaf and I can't do anything." She again said, "What you do is who you are, don't forget. It may affect your life, it also may not. What really matters is what you do when things happen at the moment."

Then when I graduated 8th grade, I was given this quote that stuck in my head after all those years; "The past is history, the future is a mystery, today is a gift; that's why we call it the present."

And just recently I watched Lord of the Ring: Fellowship of the Ring, Gandalf once told Frodo, "It doesn't matter what will happen, or how it was brought upon you, what matters is what you do with the time given to you."


Need I say it all?

Spoken Language as primary and SEE as secondary. ASL is a bonus that I learned on the side.

This is how I turned out. I was able to do something with the time given to me.

 

[Hear Again]

not english. A blind can't read or write english LOL

Jiro,

You may have meant to be sarcastic, but I find what you said above to be insulting. I happen to be totally blind and have no problems using or comprehending the English language, thank you very much. The only thing I can't do is see. How would you like it if I made a statement like that about deaf people (which I would never do)?

Sorry for going off-topic everyone, but I felt I had to interject.

 

[imdeafsowhat]

Jiro,

You may have meant to be sarcastic, but I find what you said above to be insulting. I happen to be totally blind and have no problems using or comprehending the English language, thank you very much. The only thing I can't do is see. How would you like it if I made a statement like that about deaf people (which I would never do)?

Sorry for going off-topic everyone, but I felt I had to interject.

OoOoO, legally blind? I have to say, Amazing. You rely on your hearing, totally different perspective right there, people.

All he can hear is the spoken language. Signs cannot help him unless you are in love with him and you touch him with your kind signs.

Therefore, signs are not used broadly in the world, but the spoken languages are.

Sign Language < Spoken Language, hands down.

 

[Jiro]

Jiro,

You may have meant to be sarcastic, but I find what you said above to be insulting. I happen to be totally blind and have no problems using or comprehending the English language, thank you very much. The only thing I can't do is see. How would you like it if I made a statement like that about deaf people (which I would never do)?

Sorry for going off-topic everyone, but I felt I had to interject.

huh? insulting? OK What I'm referring to is a person who cannot see at all. A COMPLETE loss of eyesight. Obviously a blind person cannot read nor write (but very difficult!) english. Same for a deaf person cannot hear nor speak (but very difficult!)

 

[imdeafsowhat]

huh? insulting? OK What I'm referring to is a person who cannot see at all. A COMPLETE loss of eyesight. Obviously a blind person cannot read nor write (but very difficult!) english. Same for a deaf person cannot hear nor speak (but very difficult!)

And that's when/where the IQ and Wolf comes in.

 

[Jiro]

And that's when/where the IQ and Wolf comes in.

 

[imdeafsowhat]

Cool, but I don't drink.

 

[Jiro]

Cool, but I don't drink.

me either, wolf

 

[shel90]

My pint has been completely missed by many here and this thread seemed to have turned about how smart one must be to be able to develop oral skills which gave me the implication that deaf signers with no oral skills are less intelligent. Not, only that turns me off but insulted my deaf brother and many of my deaf friends who all have no oral skills.

I have lost interest in this thread due to some "superior" attitudes. I was willinging to explain my point again but when it comes to insulting deaf people who weren't able to use spoken language but are fluent in English and even those who fluent in more than one language like Spanish , French, or etc along with ASL and written English but have no oral skills, I am not interested cuz it is bigotry.

Having oral skills doesn't mean one has superior intelligence than those without oral skills.

 

[Hear Again]

huh? insulting? OK What I'm referring to is a person who cannot see at all. A COMPLETE loss of eyesight. Obviously a blind person cannot read nor write (but very difficult!) english. Same for a deaf person cannot hear nor speak (but very difficult!)

Again, you are making a generalized statement which is untrue. I'm totally (completely) blind from birth and I'm able to write handwritten notes. (I learned this as a child by using tactile formations of individualized print capital block letters.) Does this mean that ALL totally blind people can write? No, but it does mean that SOME can. (I happen to know several totally blind from birth friends who can write without any difficulty.) And where do you get the idea that blind people can't read English? Haven't you heard of Braille? By the way, there are other ways of reading English for the totally blind including adaptive computers that use Braille displays and screen readers (a program that reads aloud information that is presented on the computer screen).

Having said that, I will go back into lurk mode so that this thread can go back on-topic. My apologies for diverting the thread.

 

[doofenslim]

My pint has been completely missed by many here and this thread seemed to have turned about how smart one must be to be able to develop oral skills which gave me the implication that deaf signers with no oral skills are less intelligent. Not, only that turns me off but insulted my deaf brother and many of my deaf friends who all have no oral skills.

I have lost interest in this thread due to some "superior" attitudes. I was willinging to explain my point again but when it comes to insulting deaf people who weren't able to use spoken language but are fluent in English and even those who fluent in more than one language like Spanish , French, or etc along with ASL and written English but have no oral skills, I am not interested cuz it is bigotry.

Having oral skills doesn't mean one has superior intelligence than those without oral skills.

You missed my point in some posts I made as well. That is the problem with online forums, points are easily missed. You insulted the way I was raised, the way many people I know were educated.

Bottom line, what works for one child does not always work for another.

 

[imdeafsowhat]

Again, you are making a generalized statement which is untrue. I'm totally (completely) blind from birth and I'm able to write handwritten notes. (I learned this as a child by using tactile formations of individualized print capital block letters.) Does this mean that ALL totally blind people can write? No, but it does mean that SOME can. (I happen to know several totally blind from birth friends who can write without any difficulty.) And where do you get the idea that blind people can't read English? Haven't you heard of Braille? By the way, there are other ways of reading English for the totally blind including adaptive computers that use Braille displays and screen readers (a program that reads aloud information that is presented on the computer screen).

Having said that, I will go back into lurk mode so that this thread can go back on-topic. My apologies for diverting the thread.

Say no more, you were on the point. You clearly explained yourself. After all we are entitled to our opinions.

 

[Jiro]

Again, you are making a generalized statement which is untrue. I'm totally (completely) blind from birth and I'm able to write handwritten notes. (I learned this as a child by using tactile formations of individualized print capital block letters.) Does this mean that ALL totally blind people can write? No, but it does mean that SOME can. (I happen to know several totally blind from birth friends who can write without any difficulty.) And where do you get the idea that blind people can't read English? Haven't you heard of Braille? By the way, there are other ways of reading English for the totally blind including adaptive computers that use Braille displays and screen readers (a program that reads aloud information that is presented on the computer screen).

You just proved my post! You CANNOT read the written/typed/etc. english unless if it's in braille or if the print is embossed. and Yes I am aware of computer braille display - it is indeed a wonderful technology. And you just proved my point that not ALL blind people can write. why? because it's very difficult but not impossible. If I were to give you a pen and paper... does that mean we will be able to read your paper? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe that pen has empty ink or when you write - the prints get smudged and you wouldn't be able to notice that at all.

Don't get offended. It's simply a misunderstanding on your part.

 

[imdeafsowhat]

Shel, no insulting points here, or should I say Pint? Pint of what? :P

Anyways, your brother and others are entitled to their opinion as I have told Hear Again, you see, you're just angry. Time to put down that fire before putting that fire into a bigger fire.

I'll say this, you had a life that was distraught, but we aren't saying that you all are an idiot, ok maybe some, but to the point, we clearly explained how one would understand and how one would react. Clearly not about deaf who doesn't know how to speak is so stupid that she/he can't live in the world knowing ASL only.

What we said was the Higher IQ the lower the Common Sense, or simply like this, Depends on the IQ, you are able to learn only 2 language because you have limits. But your common sense has exceeded other's exceptation.

I've been insulted more than once and I've been called what "August" wtf. Hahaha.

Don't take anything serious on the internet, lady. You clearly have an opinion, just stop getting offended and start learning. There are different opinions and different perspectives in everything. The last thing I want is this thread closed or locked.

 

[imdeafsowhat]

You just proved my post! You CANNOT read the written/typed/etc. english unless if it's in braille or if the print is embossed. and Yes I am aware of computer braille display - it is indeed a wonderful technology. And you just proved my point that not ALL blind people can write. why? because it's very difficult but not impossible. If I were to give you a pen and paper... does that mean we will be able to read your paper? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe that pen has empty ink or when you write - the prints get smudged and you wouldn't be able to notice that at all.

Don't get offended. It's simply a misunderstanding on your part.

Hmm, well said. Perhaps his perspective is very strong on being blind since he is blind from birth. Yours are strong on being deaf since you are deaf.

There's simply misunderstanding on both parts, but think of this. If you were blind, right now at the moment, not from birth, are you able to remember everything that you learned? If so, can you draw the pictures with your eyes closed, if not, then I'd say the blind are much more talented than we are if they are able to write/draw, or type.

 

[Hear Again]

You just proved my post! You CANNOT read the written/typed/etc. english unless if it's in braille or if the print is embossed. and Yes I am aware of computer braille display - it is indeed a wonderful technology. And you just proved my point that not ALL blind people can write. why? because it's very difficult but not impossible. If I were to give you a pen and paper... does that mean we will be able to read your paper? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe that pen has empty ink or when you write - the prints get smudged and you wouldn't be able to notice that at all.

Don't get offended. It's simply a misunderstanding on your part.

You made an all encompassing statement about ALL blind people being unable to write English. That statement is incorrect. The fact that I and others I know are able to write handwritten notes proves that.

If you are talking about reading English from a visual perspective, then yes, you are correct, but you didn't specify that in your post. Hence my misunderstanding.

What does a pen with empty ink or print smudges have to do with anything?

By the way, to get around the issue of empty pen ink, I always use a felt tip marker instead.

Also, in this day and age, most totally blind people write messages to sighted family and friends by using a computer via e-mail or a word processing program like MS Word. I do the same. In fact, I can't remember the last time I wrote a handwritten note.

 

[imdeafsowhat]

You made an all encompassing statement about ALL blind people being unable to write English. That statement is incorrect. The fact that I and others I know are able to write handwritten notes proves that.

If you are talking about reading English from a visual perspective, then yes, you are correct, but you didn't specify that in your post. Hence my misunderstanding.

What does a pen with empty ink or print smudges have to do with anything?

By the way, to get around the issue of empty pen ink, I always use a felt tip marker instead.

Also, in this day and age, most totally blind people write messages to sighted family and friends by using a computer via e-mail or a word processing program like MS Word. I do the same. In fact, I can't remember the last time I wrote a handwritten note.

Never fend! Here's a shining example of what can be accomplished, deaf or blind.


Beethoven created his own music that no one has heard of. How was he able to do this? By dreaming of sounds that hasn't been heard by anyone.

 

[Jiro]

You made an all encompassing statement about ALL blind people being unable to write English. That statement is incorrect. The fact that I and others I know are able to write handwritten notes proves that.

If you are talking about reading English from a visual perspective, then yes, you are correct, but you didn't specify that in your post. Hence my misunderstanding.

What does a pen with empty ink or print smudges have to do with anything?

By the way, to get around the issue of empty pen ink, I always use a felt tip marker instead.

Also, in this day and age, most totally blind people write messages to sighted family and friends by using a computer via e-mail or a word processing program like MS Word. I do the same. In fact, I can't remember the last time I wrote a handwritten note.

Generally on LARGER scale and for the sake of practicality... writing via pen/paper is impractical for blind people but I wasn't really referring to writing a simple note limited to a few words. I'm talking about writing a paper... several pages worth.

I believe my post was misunderstanding on some part. I want to clarify myself - I was actually referring "ASL + ENGLISH + ORAL" in a very basic, primitive sense with absence of technology. ASL is done by hands. English is done by speaking and writing on paper. Oral is done by speaking. All of above without the assistance of technology. I wasn't really thinking of it in context of visual disability because well... this is a deaf forum after all lol.

But yes you are right - we're misunderstanding with each other on a general term. In short - all kinds of disabled people are not useless because there are many technology available for us to do same duty as non-disabled people.

 

[shel90]

You missed my point in some posts I made as well. That is the problem with online forums, points are easily missed. You insulted the way I was raised, the way many people I know were educated.

Bottom line, what works for one child does not always work for another.

Language of instruction is ASL and different teaching strategies are employed in the classroom to fit each child's learning style.

It is like spoken English doesnt work for some hearing kids while it works for others. Same concept and it doesnt make sense at all.

 

[shel90]

Again, you are making a generalized statement which is untrue. I'm totally (completely) blind from birth and I'm able to write handwritten notes. (I learned this as a child by using tactile formations of individualized print capital block letters.) Does this mean that ALL totally blind people can write? No, but it does mean that SOME can. (I happen to know several totally blind from birth friends who can write without any difficulty.) And where do you get the idea that blind people can't read English? Haven't you heard of Braille? By the way, there are other ways of reading English for the totally blind including adaptive computers that use Braille displays and screen readers (a program that reads aloud information that is presented on the computer screen).

Having said that, I will go back into lurk mode so that this thread can go back on-topic. My apologies for diverting the thread.

Dont you hate those generalizations?