Starbucks sued for refusing to Serve the Deaf

[Jiro]

oh yea my friend told me about what happened to Alan. I believe them that I know Alan since we were kids. I m shocked.

me too. Alan taught me ASL. they surely picked a wrong person to mess with.

 

[Jiro]

Starbucks is over priced and their coffee always tastes burnt. Why anyone goes there amazes me...even McDonald sells better coffee.

Laura

wwwooowwww I thought I'm the only one who thought same

 

[Jiro]

I was going to mention this yesterday but didn't want to spend all day on it. The Deaf Happy Hours around here have been having problems with this. They will meet in restaurants and many of them will not order anything but water and some have a tendency to tip poorly. This actually happens a lot with groups of any kind. I know a pretty good verbal "war" broke out in the Deaf community here between "working deaf" and "SSDI deaf." The working deaf were claiming the SSDI deaf were the people who were attending and not ordering/tipping. I don't know if this is fact, but I saw much of the war. A lot of places wouldn't let them come back as a group. I have seen this at deaf coffee too. A lot of people just ordering water or cups of ice. It's a tough situation because you don't want to exclude people for being poor, but at the same time you don't want to establish a bad name for your group. Some groups added a "Professional" to the name of their happy hour groups.

yep. that has been an issue in here as well. few years ago - when NYC DPHH hosted a place at a location where you have to pay an entry fee.... a hell broke out, complaining about $$$$ :roll:

I mean uh..... DPHH.... Deaf PROFESSIONAL Happy Hour.... people with... JOBS.... and so they hosted it somewhere with no entry fee... and then next one - there was some major drama and fighting... as well as numbers of complaints from managers about bad tippings and a business establishment getting crowded but nobody's buying... since then - NYC DPHH has been disbanded. what a shame... I had a really good time.

these people.. such a classless bunch :roll:

 

[Foxrac]

There were deaf silent dinner in our area that happen once a month. They went to different restaurants - all nice restaurants. There were few deaf people didn't have enough money for full meal but the group happily to help to pay some of meal.

 

[ambrosia]

I was going to mention this yesterday but didn't want to spend all day on it. The Deaf Happy Hours around here have been having problems with this. They will meet in restaurants and many of them will not order anything but water and some have a tendency to tip poorly. This actually happens a lot with groups of any kind. I know a pretty good verbal "war" broke out in the Deaf community here between "working deaf" and "SSDI deaf." The working deaf were claiming the SSDI deaf were the people who were attending and not ordering/tipping. I don't know if this is fact, but I saw much of the war. A lot of places wouldn't let them come back as a group. I have seen this at deaf coffee too. A lot of people just ordering water or cups of ice. It's a tough situation because you don't want to exclude people for being poor, but at the same time you don't want to establish a bad name for your group. Some groups added a "Professional" to the name of their happy hour groups.

That sounds like a much more plausible explanation. Not that they don't want to serve deaf people, but ones that are staying for lengthy amount of time, taking up tables and not spending money. Businesses are in business to make money.

If this about individuals being discriminated against I wish them the best, because that is wrong. But if its really about the group taken advantage if the business, I'd hate to see people turn around and start crying about discrimination, making it about deafness when that's not really what it is.

 

[Foxrac]

For me, I always pay 15% tip to all service, including restaurants and haircut.

Don't count me as bad publicity.

 

[Steinhauer]

Meh. Personally, I don't like NYC. It is a dirty city .. when you fly in, you can see the dark filthy air surrounding the entire city from your airplane window. My eyes itch every time I go there (my body reacts to the pollution). Plus, for the most part, people in NYC have an attitude. It is a notorious fact that a New Yorker is RUDE. So, reading about Starbucks employees in NYC being rude is not completely shocking to me. Rudeness is ingrained into a New Yorker's DNA.

Serving the Deaf in New York though? I have a story about that, but it isn't about Starbucks. I took a group of 17 Deaf foreigners to Manhattan for a weekend. When we arrived, we immediately started looking for a place to stay (the group made no prior plans and elected me to be their "guide" without me even knowing until we arrived). So, I had to think fast. Parking was outrageously expensive - we found parking - but looking back on this, I can't remember how.

Finding a place to stay was a nightmare. Not that there was nothing to find at reasonable rates, because there were - it was hotel managers refusing to let our group stay because we were deaf.

That's right. The usual reply was "we don't have special equipment for 'you people' therefore we cannot legally accommodate you".

In my neck of the proverbial forest, we also have deaf meet and greets at Starbucks. I have attended a few. Everyone paid for something. However, I noticed that when we all get together, hearing people seem "intimidated" by the wild hand waving, the guttural grunts and etc.There was one time when this huge massive walking muscle of a man came over and stared at us signing. He had a bright big beaming smile and just kept watching us intently (he was in our 'personal space').

That was a weird one.

 

[rockin'robin]

Meh. Personally, I don't like NYC. It is a dirty city .. when you fly in, you can see the dark filthy air surrounding the entire city from your airplane window. My eyes itch every time I go there (my body reacts to the pollution). Plus, for the most part, people in NYC have an attitude. It is a notorious fact that a New Yorker is RUDE. So, reading about Starbucks employees in NYC being rude is not completely shocking to me. Rudeness is ingrained into a New Yorker's DNA.

Serving the Deaf in New York though? I have a story about that, but it isn't about Starbucks. I took a group of 17 Deaf foreigners to Manhattan for a weekend. When we arrived, we immediately started looking for a place to stay (the group made no prior plans and elected me to be their "guide" without me even knowing until we arrived). So, I had to think fast. Parking was outrageously expensive - we found parking - but looking back on this, I can't remember how.

Finding a place to stay was a nightmare. Not that there was nothing to find at reasonable rates, because there were - it was hotel managers refusing to let our group stay because we were deaf.

That's right. The usual reply was "we don't have special equipment for 'you people' therefore we cannot legally accommodate you".

In my neck of the proverbial forest, we also have deaf meet and greets at Starbucks. I have attended a few. Everyone paid for something. However, I noticed that when we all get together, hearing people seem "intimidated" by the wild hand waving, the guttural grunts and etc.There was one time when this huge massive walking muscle of a man came over and stared at us signing. He had a bright big beaming smile and just kept watching us intently (he was in our 'personal space').

That was a weird one.

 

[Jiro]

Meh. Personally, I don't like NYC. It is a dirty city .. when you fly in, you can see the dark filthy air surrounding the entire city from your airplane window. My eyes itch every time I go there (my body reacts to the pollution).

must be terrible to deal with it at Gallaudet University for a few years...

Plus, for the most part, people in NYC have an attitude. It is a notorious fact that a New Yorker is RUDE. So, reading about Starbucks employees in NYC being rude is not completely shocking to me. Rudeness is ingrained into a New Yorker's DNA.

Serving the Deaf in New York though? I have a story about that, but it isn't about Starbucks. I took a group of 17 Deaf foreigners to Manhattan for a weekend. When we arrived, we immediately started looking for a place to stay (the group made no prior plans and elected me to be their "guide" without me even knowing until we arrived). So, I had to think fast.

that's why it's best to find a local who can better serve you. I've hosted an AD gathering in NYC a few years ago and it went great except the part that the restaurant was bit too small (my fault since I didn't expect a lot more people to come) but the manager and waitresses were extremely courteous and helpful. we went to cool bar across the street. there was a private area just for us. service was great.

Parking was outrageously expensive - we found parking - but looking back on this, I can't remember how.

plenty of free parking and cheap parking if you know your way around. Boston, SF, and DC are terrible for parking. worse than NYC by a mile. outrageously expensive as well.

nyc.bestparking.com is a good start. too bad it didn't exist at that time.

Finding a place to stay was a nightmare. Not that there was nothing to find at reasonable rates, because there were - it was hotel managers refusing to let our group stay because we were deaf.

That's right. The usual reply was "we don't have special equipment for 'you people' therefore we cannot legally accommodate you".

ah - too bad airbnb.com didn't exist at that time. works great for many deafies who visit here - cheap, courteous, and accommodating.

 

[Foxrac]

must be terrible to deal with it at Gallaudet University for a few years...


that's why it's best to find a local who can better serve you. I've hosted an AD gathering in NYC a few years ago and it went great except the part that the restaurant was bit too small (my fault since I didn't expect a lot more people to come) but the manager and waitresses were extremely courteous and helpful. we went to cool bar across the street. there was a private area just for us. service was great.


plenty of free parking and cheap parking if you know your way around. Boston, SF, and DC are terrible for parking. worse than NYC by a mile. outrageously expensive as well.

nyc.bestparking.com is a good start. too bad it didn't exist at that time.


ah - too bad airbnb.com didn't exist at that time. works great for many deafies who visit here - cheap, courteous, and accommodating.

for tip.

I will plan to visit NYC when I get back to Gally in Jan 2014.

 

[tuatara]

I was going to mention this yesterday but didn't want to spend all day on it. The Deaf Happy Hours around here have been having problems with this. They will meet in restaurants and many of them will not order anything but water and some have a tendency to tip poorly. This actually happens a lot with groups of any kind. I know a pretty good verbal "war" broke out in the Deaf community here between "working deaf" and "SSDI deaf." The working deaf were claiming the SSDI deaf were the people who were attending and not ordering/tipping. I don't know if this is fact, but I saw much of the war. A lot of places wouldn't let them come back as a group. I have seen this at deaf coffee too. A lot of people just ordering water or cups of ice. It's a tough situation because you don't want to exclude people for being poor, but at the same time you don't want to establish a bad name for your group. Some groups added a "Professional" to the name of their happy hour groups.

[emphasis mine]

That seems pretty heartless.

If they really don't want to exclude people for being poor (and also don't want to alienate businesses who don't want to take a loss by hosting people who can't afford to be customers), why not plan the events in places that don't cost? Like, get a big table at a local library? Or ask a community center to donate a meeting room for a couple hours? Or if weather is likely to permit, a neighborhood park?

 

[TXgolfer]

yep. that has been an issue in here as well. few years ago - when NYC DPHH hosted a place at a location where you have to pay an entry fee.... a hell broke out, complaining about $$$$ :roll:

I mean uh..... DPHH.... Deaf PROFESSIONAL Happy Hour.... people with... JOBS.... and so they hosted it somewhere with no entry fee... and then next one - there was some major drama and fighting... as well as numbers of complaints from managers about bad tippings and a business establishment getting crowded but nobody's buying... since then - NYC DPHH has been disbanded. what a shame... I had a really good time.

these people.. such a classless bunch :roll:

It's a tough problem, not sure what the solution is. SMH

 

[Jiro]

for tip.

I will plan to visit NYC when I get back to Gally in Jan 2014.

no problem!

I will obviously have a similar experience as Steinhauer if I were to be a de facto group leader to Georgia for the weekend but I wouldn't complain like that. I would blame myself for not being an effective, resourceful host, not the city. I've enjoyed many cities I've visited to in several countries and all over USA. Every city has its own culture and niche.

It's all about how does one perceives it and how one copes with it.

 

[TXgolfer]

[emphasis mine]

That seems pretty heartless.

If they really don't want to exclude people for being poor (and also don't want to alienate businesses who don't want to take a loss by hosting people who can't afford to be customers), why not plan the events in places that don't cost? Like, get a big table at a local library? Or ask a community center to donate a meeting room for a couple hours? Or if weather is likely to permit, a neighborhood park?

There are activities like that already. These particular events are more about a "night out" and alcohol...dancing and things like that.

 

[Jiro]

It's a tough problem, not sure what the solution is. SMH

bingo. *smh*

can't make everybody happy. the hosts constantly remind them to be respectful, tip generously, buy something, and keep drama out.

for now.... we have "ASL SLAM" and it's going pretty good.

 

[Jiro]

[emphasis mine]

That seems pretty heartless.

If they really don't want to exclude people for being poor (and also don't want to alienate businesses who don't want to take a loss by hosting people who can't afford to be customers), why not plan the events in places that don't cost? Like, get a big table at a local library? Or ask a community center to donate a meeting room for a couple hours? Or if weather is likely to permit, a neighborhood park?

we do. we have Deaf Meet-Ups hosted at Barnes & Nobles. I don't go there much. It's mostly ASL students, terp students, late deaf, etc. not very popular for us deafies.

 

[TXgolfer]

That sounds like a much more plausible explanation. Not that they don't want to serve deaf people, but ones that are staying for lengthy amount of time, taking up tables and not spending money. Businesses are in business to make money.

If this about individuals being discriminated against I wish them the best, because that is wrong. But if its really about the group taken advantage if the business, I'd hate to see people turn around and start crying about discrimination, making it about deafness when that's not really what it is.

I agree. If this truly has happened to individuals (individuals who have not been banned previously) I hope they win this suit big time.

 

[Frisky Feline]

me too. Alan taught me ASL. they surely picked a wrong person to mess with.

Really? You must have met Mike too.

 

[Foxrac]

It's a tough problem, not sure what the solution is. SMH

There is solution: communication and encouragement.

When I was at Gally, 3 students and I went out to eat at restaurant. After we ate at restaurant and one deaf student didn't pay tip so we asked him why he didn't pay tip. He thought it wasn't necessary. I had to explain about waiters make less money than federal minimum wage - $2 per hour and it isn't hurt to pay 15% tip. $20 meal - $3 tip. We told him that waiter was extremely nice to him. Finally, he started pay tip.

 

[TXgolfer]

bingo. *smh*

can't make everybody happy. the hosts constantly remind them to be respectful, tip generously, buy something, and keep drama out.

for now.... we have "ASL SLAM" and it's going pretty good.

Yeah, the old website for DHH in Tx. mentioned "please tip at least 10%, and please order food" several times