Robot Sharpshooter Bound for Iraq

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Beowulf

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A couple weeks ago someone in here wondered aloud if robots would be fighting our wars ten years from now, and I was amazed and saddened by the responses, which were mostly derisive.
Well, guess what? It is happening NOW.

http://cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/22/iraq/main668565.shtml

God help us all.
 
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Beowulf said:
A couple weeks ago someone in here wondered aloud if robots would be fighting our wars ten years from now, and I was amazed and saddened by the responses, which were mostly derisive.
Well, guess what? It is happening NOW.

http://cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/22/iraq/main668565.shtml

God help us all.
Click to expand...


Robots have been used in the US for a number of years for both bombs as well has hostage situations. Its the robots that are sent in to poke and prod suspicious packages. They are also used to deliver items (such as a hotline telephone) to sucidal subjects or hostage takers. They have been in use since I was a little kid.
 
Well, of course I know that! But THIS somehow feels so WRONG.
In all the science fiction stories I have read while growing up (and yes, I AM older than you are), the Robot's first dictum is that it never harms a human being.
Now we are sending robots out there to kill human beings.
Don't tell me this makes you yawn.
This is just the beginning, I fear.
 
I agree, Alex. The military has traditionally had dibs on and first crack at all new technology, and within the present moral turpitude so prevalent today, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the military is just months away from unleashing similar robots that your video shows.
And by the way, folks, those are REAL robots, I forget the names of the models, with no humans inside.
Like I said, God help us all.
 
Beowulf said:
Well, of course I know that! But THIS somehow feels so WRONG.
In all the science fiction stories I have read while growing up (and yes, I AM older than you are), the Robot's first dictum is that it never harms a human being.
Now we are sending robots out there to kill human beings.
Don't tell me this makes you yawn.
This is just the beginning, I fear.
Click to expand...

These robots are remote control vehicles...not out just blowing people up. There is still human who does the firing. Why are you so against it? (legit question) If a bomber blows up one of these robots, its one less soldier coming back in a body bag. Perhaps you'd prefer our guys to be over there with sticks and rocks fighting the war?
 
Nawww, Taylor, you know me better than that.
I prefer them NOT to be there in the first place.
The danger with using remote devices to do killing is that it desentisizes you to the horror of what you have actually done.
A few months ago I posted a video link showing a fighter jet blowing up a large group of people to smithereens (they turned out to be civilians), with an audio of the pilot laughingly exulting "Oh, Dude!!!"
Now, if that same pilot was on the ground with a machine gun, I somehow doubt that he would feel so much blood-lust, being that he would be jolly well aware that these are PEOPLE he was about to splatter at close range with the weapon. There is a difference.
It is hard to have empathy for human beings when they are just specks that disappear from your target crosshairs.
Once we as a human species feel absolutely no remorse for killing, then it is the end of us.
 
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Beowulf said:
Nawww, Taylor, you know me better than that.
I prefer them NOT to be there in the first place.
The danger with using remote devices to do killing is that it desentisizes you to the horror of what you have actually done.
A few months ago I posted a video link showing a fighter jet blowing up a large group of people to smithereens (they turned out to be civilians), with an audio of the pilot exulting "Dude!!!"
Now, if that same pilot was on the ground with a machine gun, I somehow doubt that he would feel so much blood-lust, being that he would be jolly well aware that these are PEOPLE he is about to splatter at close range with the weapon. There is a difference.
It is hard to have empathy for human beings when they are just specks that disappear from your target crosshairs.
Once we as a human species feel absolutely no remorse for killing, then it is the end of us.
Click to expand...

Yeah...I do know you better than that...at least as far as us being there. A soldier who pushes that button is fully aware of what he is doing and that he is killing somebody on the other end. The only difference is he is safe when they shoot back.
 
So it is your position, then, that there is absolutetly no difference in a person's feelings and emotions when he 1) Uses a remote-control gun to kill a person he sees on a computer monitor...and 2) A person that he kills at close range, close enough to see the blood spurting out of his shattered body, hearing his screams?
Is it further your position, if you continue your logic, that six year olds who play violent video games are not affected in any way from them?

And why shouldn't the Iraq guerillas shoot back? If another country invaded yours, started killing everyone in your neighborhood, wouldn't you do the same?
 
Whoa... this is interesting. But then again, someone else will come up with something better and we've got Terminator: Judgement Day coming true! :eek:
 
I did saw a movie called " I, Robot " with actor Will Smith, I don't think it such a bad idea, it would even save the lives of many American soliders!...
 
Beowulf said:
So it is your position, then, that there is absolutetly no difference in a person's feelings and emotions when he 1) Uses a remote-control gun to kill a person he sees on a computer monitor...and 2) A person that he kills at close range, close enough to see the blood spurting out of his shattered body, hearing his screams?
Is it further your position, if you continue your logic, that six year olds who play violent video games are not affected in any way from them?

And why shouldn't the Iraq guerillas shoot back? If another country invaded yours, started killing everyone in your neighborhood, wouldn't you do the same?
Click to expand...

Be careful about lumping me into positions. To address your points, when a soldier kills, he is aware he is killing. Whether it is done from a robot a half mile away (like the article said) and he has a high caliber gun and does it from a distance...a soldier that kills is fully aware that he is killing and lives with it.

The analogy to six year olds doesn't apply. I do believe that playing violent video games does cause problems. The two don't always go hand in hand IMO. Its like saying that I would support a crooked cop because I work in law enforcement.
 
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I will try not to lump you into any position if you would try to do the same. You came awfully close to saying I do not care about our troops with that sticks and rocks crack.
I can see that you plainly have the opinion that there is absolutely no difference to a soldier whether he kills an enemy with a knife than by a remote control gun accurate to a two mile range.
I guess that makes quite a few of my Vietnam veteran friends very much in error in your eyes.
I am sure that is okay with them, though.
But I value their opinion on warfare the most highly.
 
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Beowulf said:
I will try not to lump you into any position if you would try to do the same. You came awfully close to saying I do not care about our troops with that sticks and rocks crack.
I can see that you plainly have the opinion that there is absolutely no difference to a soldier whether he kills an enemy with a knife than by a remote control gun accurate to a two mile range.
I guess that makes quite a few of my Vietnam veteran friends very much in error in your eyes.
I am sure that is okay with them, though.
But I value their opinion on warfare the most highly.
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Beowulf,
To clarify, my comment about sticks and rocks wasn't a crack towards you. It is a matter of technology. We have technology that was never available before...from remote control weapons to laser guided missles. I know you care about our troops but are against the war....and I both support your opinion and will back up your right to say it...even if I disagree (still believe we went to Iraq for the right reasons and believe the world will be a better place without the likes of Saddam). I believe that any technology that can be used to achieve the goal without adding to the body count should be considered. Abandoning all current technology would take us back to sticks and stones, and that is what my comment was for.
 
I understand, Taylor, and thanks for the explanation.
Lol, it was a hoot debating with you.
But now it looks like it is time for me to get to my job, and you have helped keep me from falling asleep before now. Much obliged, dude.
 
^Angel^ said:
I did saw a movie called " I, Robot " with actor Will Smith, I don't think it such a bad idea, it would even save the lives of many American soliders!...
Click to expand...
Yep, it could save lives. However, if you remember The Matrix... you'll realize that the AI could surpass all knowledge! :eek:
 
Beowulf said:
I understand, Taylor, and thanks for the explanation.
Lol, it was a hoot debating with you.
But now it looks like it is time for me to get to my job, and you have helped keep me from falling asleep before now. Much obliged, dude.
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Ditto...but you better be careful. If we are too nice to each other, we may end up becoming friends (Magatsu regrets the day he was nice to me ;) )
 
History shows us that at each technological advancement in warfare, the same arguement arises. The British felt this way about the colonists who fought indian style, hiding behind trees and picking off officers. When airplanes were first used in warfare, they were spotters. Then the pilots carried handguns, and rifles. Then hand dropped bombs. Then machine guns were mounted on them. In WWII, high altitude bombing and V2 rockets came about. Then we learned to guide the bombs and rockets. At Normandy, our ships lay offshore and delivered shells miles inland with surprising accuracy. In Vietnam, we used Puff the Magic Dragon. A deadly airplane that could orbit a battlefield and using G.E. high speed motor driven guns, place a bullet in every square foot. Then we developer ROV's, small remote controlled aircraft with a camera to survey battlefields. Tomahawk and cruise missles that can be fired from long ranges and be guided to impact by a designating laser pointed by hidden ground troops. And yes, armed robotic vehicles remotely controlled. AI has not advanced, yet, to the point where robotic devices make the targeting and firing decisions. The "Rules for Robots" is a fanciful idea made up by Sci-fi writers for their AI creations. I have worked with robotics for years and we are a long way from autonomous robots. For the forseeable future, they will remain in the direct control of an operator. Not much different than the men and women who sat in control rooms deep beneath the countryside all over America since the 1950's.
 
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