Respect for all

It's funny how parents come here and speak for their children, but we never hear from their children.

(shrugs)

Just had to point it out because that's what I always see here. Always the parents making all sorts of claims about what their children can do, yet we never hear from their children. We all know how the parents like to exaggerate when it come to their children.

(Jillo included, no offense :P)

None taken. My son has posted a couple of times under my name when he was home from college, and has read many, many posts, and watched jclake's vlogs, and your vlogs Banjo. But he has also stated that he would get on here and start chatting and ignore his schoolwork, and I'm not going to discourage him from being responsible about that. Maybe this summer, he will become a regular.

That is the very reason that I do not use my son as a constant exapmle to support my opinions. I try to use research and generalized experience with a wide variety of deaf people. I use my deaf students more often than anyone, if I need to cite a personal example.
 
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That's risky considering the accuracy rate of hearing tests on infants. But they will never know because they already destroyed the residual hearing by then. There are cases of where children were mistaken for being deaf till they were a year old only to discover that that's not the case. They should wait at least a year.

No doubt.
 
That's risky considering the accuracy rate of hearing tests on infants. But they will never know because they already destroyed the residual hearing by then. There are cases of where children were mistaken for being deaf till they were a year old only to discover that that's not the case. They should wait at least a year.

Banjo,
I am not sure if I agree with implanting a 6 month old. But they are doing that. I would need to do some research before I agee or disagree with implanting this young.
 
Bango
You got a point there. My son did join but he stopped after Jillo was critical of writing abilities. So this is why he has not been back on this site.

That is a blatant lie. I suggest you find something to support such an accusation. You seem to think it is acceptable for you to say whatever pops into your head without being able to validate it. That, jackie, is why you get no respect. And I will be happy to pull up all of the posts your son made,as well the replies I made to him. Further, I will pull up all the posts where you stated that you forbid him to post on AD, as well as the simple statement I made regarding the fact that I had seen examples of his writing. Simply saying I had seen examples can in no way be constued as criticism. Again trying to lay the responsibility for your own actions on others.

Further, as this post was supposedly started about respect, I might remind you that respect is not something one is just given. It must be earned. You are not doing a very good job of earning anyone's respect at this point in time.

Why don't you take the time to go back and address the issues in post #73, post #77, post #84, post#118, and post#125?
 
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Banjo,
I am not sure if I agree with implanting a 6 month old. But they are doing that. I would need to do some research before I agee or disagree with implanting this young.

"It is just so amazing what these toddlers have avilable. Have you heard that they have implanted a 6 month old baby. Can you image what this baby is going to be able to do."

Sure sounds like support for implantation of a 6 month old to me. More contradictions.
 
Banjo, I SO agree! Unless the baby had something like auditory nereopathy, I think that WICKED early implantation is just...........overkill.


hearing exchange
How come Hearing Exchange is so dead then?
jackie and rick, you posting about CI oral sucesses is pretty much akin to someone who's the parent of an audilogically hoh kid raving about how well hearing aids integrate their kids into hearing society. "Sucess" with CI varies tremendously from only being able to hear thunder or enviromental sounds to being pretty much functionally hoh............JUST LIKE with hearing aids! (what I mean by that is that hearing aids produce the same effect on a person's hearing)
 
That's risky considering the accuracy rate of hearing tests on infants. But they will never know because they already destroyed the residual hearing by then. There are cases of where children were mistaken for being deaf till they were a year old only to discover that that's not the case. They should wait at least a year.


:nodding in agreements:
 
"It is just so amazing what these toddlers have avilable. Have you heard that they have implanted a 6 month old baby. Can you image what this baby is going to be able to do."

Sure sounds like support for implantation of a 6 month old to me. More contradictions.

It's incredible how many contradictions jackiesolorzano have managed to come up with in this thread only. When I joined AD, I thought the contradictions was part of their personality, but after reading posts from other oralists, like Rick48, Cloggy and loml, it's apparent that this is a trait of oralism, and less a personality thing.

It looks like they are so afraid and hostile toward ASL they come up with new reasons to deny it to toddlers every time they are presented with hard facts, even if it contradicts earlier statements. It's like the denying of alcholism, the traits are shared, and hard to overcome. And like alcholol producers, cochlear implant companies are not doing much good to help those people. The victims are both the parents and their children :(
 
Rick,
Thank you for your support. I know you are right. I honestly do not know why it matters. My children are happy with our choices and I love my job and working with young children and their parents. I know you are right parents come into my class and want their child in with me. And some of them have fought hard. A couple of months I had a little boy transfer in my class from Riverside. I guess I am making an impact even at the school for the Deaf.

No problem Jackie its my pleasure and any time!

When you see the posts, especially the recent ones from the usual anti-ci crowd, just proves the point you made at the start.

BTW you do not need the kids to be on these forums for they are out there in every day life with their friends and family, maybe if you spent some time with them you would understand what Jackie and I are saying.

Personally, I am glad that my daughter is more interested in doing the things on a Friday night that college kids do then spending her time with the close-minded individuals that dominate this board who do not respect her for who she is but judge her by how she communicates.
 
No problem Jackie its my pleasure and any time!

When you see the posts, especially the recent ones from the usual anti-ci crowd, just proves the point you made at the start.

BTW you do not need the kids to be on these forums for they are out there in every day life with their friends and family, maybe if you spent some time with them you would understand what Jackie and I are saying.

Personally, I am glad that my daughter is more interested in doing the things on a Friday night that college kids do then spending her time with the close-minded individuals that dominate this board who do not respect her for who she is but judge her by how she communicates.


Do u see any of us criticizing the other ADers on this forum who do not know sign language? Anyone criticize those members who dont know sign language? We are always welcoming them. I think u are trippin'.

The chill pill is sitting by my desk, I am thinking of giving it to u instead cuz I feel totally calm.
 
You know Rick, I do not why I try so hard to understand other people's position especially since they are just so closed minded. People like that would never be open to new ideas and ideas that work.
You know Rick, I have had extra time to be on Alldeaf because I am at a 2 week conference on cochlear implants. I am not use to have evenings alone with my children or my therapy kids. I am learning so much more. You know Rick we have such amazing kids that were able to do so much with the old technology of 22. I hope the new parents of cochlear implants realize how much better they have it with all the new techonology. It is just so amazing what these toddlers have avilable. Have you heard that they have implanted a 6 month old baby. Can you image what this baby is going to be able to do.

and yet u want respect from us "close-minded" people? U started this thread and we tried to explain why we feel about this philosophy and yet instead of respecting our positions, u call us close-minded. Then u complain that u are not getting respect. Respect is a two way street.
 
Hey Jackie...read this letter from AGBell and why the discrimination against the signing Deaf community continues...u feel that we discriminate against oralists.. They are the ones who are making false statements like these.....


January 31, 2008
Ms. Julie Hamp Senior Vice President
PepsiCo Communications
700 Anderson Hill Road Purchase, NY 10577
Dear. Ms. Hamp,
On behalf of the Alexander Graham Bell Association for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing (AG Bell), we are writing in regards to the airing of your upcoming Super Bowl commercial highlighting deaf characters. Established in 1890, AG Bell is the only national organization dedicated to supporting children and adults who are deaf or hard of hearing who use spoken language and hearing technology to communicate in mainstream society.
Although we appreciate Pepsi’s efforts to encourage new promotional ideas from your rank-and-file employees and your willingness to celebrate diversity, we would be remiss if we did not call your attention to the fact that your advertisement offers a limited view of the deaf community. Since you have chosen the Super Bowl as the forum to launch this campaign, and because of Pepsi’s size and stature, we feel a responsibility to offer our perspective on this somewhat misleading stereotype presented in your advertisement.
We trust you understand that deaf and hard of hearing individuals are a diverse group and therefore do not fit into a single, distinct culture. Your advertisement perpetuates a common myth that all people who are deaf can only communicate using sign language and are, therefore, isolated from the rest of society. In fact, today’s hearing technology, coupled with early screening identification and intervention, has led to incredible advances in listening and spoken language skill development. Of the more than 30 million Americans who live with hearing loss, the majority use spoken language as their primary mode of communication.
We would also like to remind you that with the amount of money Pepsi will spend on just one 60 second spot to air during the Super Bowl, you could help an untold number of families obtain hearing aids and other professional services that are costly and in many cases not covered by medical insurance. We would be very willing to work with Pepsi to develop some creative ideas to promote other facets of the deaf community and to highlight positive role models who have met the challenges of this condition and thrived using spoken language. In addition, we invite and encourage your participation at our 2008 convention to be held in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, June 27-30; the largest gathering of families with deaf and hard of hearing children in the world.
Your continued involvement in this issue would go a long way to educate the public about this oftentimes invisible condition and promote appreciation for those individuals that go above and beyond to overcome the absence of something many of us take for granted – the miracle of sound.
Sincerely,

Signing deaf people are not isolated. If they are, I havent met them and I literally have met thousands of deaf people in the 10 years I have been involved in the Deaf community.

Their statement about deafness as "this condition" is a strong medical viewpoint of deafness and the way it is stated, it is a bad thing. They make deafness into a negative thing therefore making the parents see it as a terrible thing when it doesnt have to be. So the parents transfer that negative view to their deaf children making them feel negative about themselves. U can deny it all u want..I have seen it professionally, personally, and here on AD when new members come in this forum sharing their experiences of dealing with their parents' denial about their deafness.


Many deaf people who grew up using spoken language didnt "thrive" from it. I was one of them. Instead, my self-esteem was practically zip so I engaged in self-destructive behaviors so I could fill in the empty feeling I had due to having no full connection with anyone because everyone used spoken language. Despite developing good spoken language skills, I felt isolated.


This is why many of us dont respect an organization like that or the people who support it.

BTW..AGBell, himself, encouraged the sterilization of deaf people so an organization with his name doesn't deserve respect. They just keep continuing with the lies and false statements about the Deaf community.

That is how many of us felt when u said stuff about ASL in your old posts especially in the CART thread when u first joined here. Many of us reacted strongly to your posts. What do u expect?

To many of us, ASL literally saved our lives from despair and depression, language deprivation, and from feeling completely isolated (as much as AGBell denies that) from being in all-hearing environment 24/7.

Anyone who comes in here and makes all these false statements about ASL or Deaf signers will not be respected immediately. Many of us continue to face discrimination and oppression out there in the hearing world so AD is a place for us to connect with each other. For people to come in here spouting the oralist philosophy along with lies or disrespect towards ASL (or any other sign languages) is not going to be warmly welcomed by many of us.

Some people will respect you, Jackie, and some people will not. I know that there are some people who do not respect me cuz of my stand on the oral-only philosophy. So what? That's life, but to make false statements about us just because we dont agree with your philosophy is going too far. I dont see any of us going around making false statements about u but u and Rick continue to do so. Come on, this is silly.

AgBell went too far with its protest to the Pepsi Commercial. It is a hot topic within the deaf community and of course many people are angry. We grew up being told that we cant do this or that and now AGBell is saying we cant have a signing Pepsi commercial? Society has made stereotypes about us and we have dealt with it and AGBell is whinnning about the commercial creating a stereotype about all deaf people signing. So FUCKING what. We deserve this recognization as tooo often in the past, deaf people who have beautiful speech were used as model in the media as "successful" ones and signing deaf people were seen or shown by the media in a negative light. Finally, we are being portrayed in a postive and humorous light. AgBell needs to take a chill pill.

U brought up about Mexicans being stereotyped and I agree with u...now can u try to see how the Deaf community feels about organizations like AGBell or oralists who are so extreme?
 
I HAVE READ AND UNDERSTAND HOW THE ORAL DEAF COMMUNITY WAS BEFORE 20, 30 YEARS AGO. I HAVE READ ABOUT THE HAND SLAPPING AND OTHER HORRIBLE THINGS. BUT TIMES HAVE CHANGED AND PEOPLE HAVE TOO. IT IS SAD THAT YOU ARE JUDGING US NEW ORAL DEAF PARENTS FROM MISTAKES MADE IN YOUR PAST.

Some of parents and authority figures still do as of today. *Shudders at thoughts of abuse*
 
Something I have also thought about: Pure oralist professionals have no shame at being responsible for the failure rate (how about 75%--my guess) their single minded, one way only approach causes.
 
It's funny how parents come here and speak for their children, but we never hear from their children.

(shrugs)

Just had to point it out because that's what I always see here. Always the parents making all sorts of claims about what their children can do, yet we never hear from their children. We all know how the parents like to exaggerate when it come to their children.

(Jilli included, no offense :P)

I agree because if my father was here posting on this message board he would be bragging how well I speak, and wouldn't think how frustrated it was for me being in an oral classroom reading on teacher's lips the entire day, if hearing parents thinks it's so easy to do so, why don't they try it for the entire day five days a week.
 
Reading what you need between the lines......

It's incredible how many contradictions jackiesolorzano have managed to come up with in this thread only. When I joined AD, I thought the contradictions was part of their personality, but after reading posts from other oralists, like Rick48, Cloggy and loml, it's apparent that this is a trait of oralism, and less a personality thing.

It looks like they are so afraid and hostile toward ASL they come up with new reasons to deny it to toddlers every time they are presented with hard facts, even if it contradicts earlier statements. It's like the denying of alcholism, the traits are shared, and hard to overcome. And like alcholol producers, cochlear implant companies are not doing much good to help those people. The victims are both the parents and their children :(

flip - Please refrain from making statements regarding me that you do not know personally to be true.
 
It's incredible how many contradictions jackiesolorzano have managed to come up with in this thread only. When I joined AD, I thought the contradictions was part of their personality, but after reading posts from other oralists, like Rick48, Cloggy and loml, it's apparent that this is a trait of oralism, and less a personality thing.

It looks like they are so afraid and hostile toward ASL they come up with new reasons to deny it to toddlers every time they are presented with hard facts, even if it contradicts earlier statements. It's like the denying of alcholism, the traits are shared, and hard to overcome. And like alcholol producers, cochlear implant companies are not doing much good to help those people. The victims are both the parents and their children :(

Their claims are all as changeable as the wind, depending upon whom they are addressing. For instance, to a hearing person (rick) jackie raves about the wonders and excitement of seeing an implanted 6 month old, but when a deaf person reminds her of the inconsistency in results for testing at that age, she backs up and all of a sudden doesn't know if she agrees or not. She ways whatever she thinks the other one wants to hear, or what she thinks will sway them over to her side. That, my friends, is called manipulation and insincerity. I have far more respect for someone who says what they mean, means what they say, and sticks to it.

The fact is, the oralists have always relied on untruths to promote their philosophy. It is a system that was born out of incorrect ideas, flawed philosophies, twisted conclusions, lies, opression, and ethnocentricity. It has never stood up under close scrutiny. The oralist camp inherently turns hearing people into bullies. When people adhere to such a philosophy, it stands to reason that they behave in kind. Just like racism.
 
No problem Jackie its my pleasure and any time!

When you see the posts, especially the recent ones from the usual anti-ci crowd, just proves the point you made at the start.

BTW you do not need the kids to be on these forums for they are out there in every day life with their friends and family, maybe if you spent some time with them you would understand what Jackie and I are saying.

Personally, I am glad that my daughter is more interested in doing the things on a Friday night that college kids do then spending her time with the close-minded individuals that dominate this board who do not respect her for who she is but judge her by how she communicates.

Again, with the lies. You would have much more credibility if you could stick to the truth. The only way you can appear to have any credibility at all is to tell blatant lies in order to attempt to support yourself. That is really sad. And speaks volumes about the lack of strength of your position.
 
and yet u want respect from us "close-minded" people? U started this thread and we tried to explain why we feel about this philosophy and yet instead of respecting our positions, u call us close-minded. Then u complain that u are not getting respect. Respect is a two way street.

Exactly. If anyone is close minded around here, it is the few that continue to hold to the oral philosophy. They insist on resurrecting the name calling, the lies, the unfounded accusations, and the childish tantrums anytime a poster disagrees with them, rather than engaging in a productive exchange of ideas. They don't try to earn respect, they demand it...much the same as demanding that a deaf child use oral language only.
 
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