Original Sin

[Yiffzer]

Note: Please refrain from attacks. Only post if you have certain knowledge. Do not make speculation. I request posters to please type clearly as possible; I do not appreciate condensed posts with no organization. I wish Atheists and Jordan (RITCount, SyrOrange, etc.) to not post in this thread. Thank you.

Christians, I wish to understand from Christianity's point of view of how and why original sin makes proper sense besides the fact that we all sin. My biggest concern with the original sin is that by rule/law, it also considers babies as sinners too. What justification is there for a baby to be a considered a sinner? If the baby is a sinner, what sins would a baby commit? Please share your thoughts.

-Yiffzer.

 

[christlovedeaf]

Note: Please refrain from attacks. Only post if you have certain knowledge. Do not make speculation. I request posters to please type clearly as possible; I do not appreciate condensed posts with no organization. I wish Atheists and Jordan (RITCount, SyrOrange, etc.) to not post in this thread. Thank you.

Christians, I wish to understand from Christianity's point of view of how and why original sin makes proper sense besides the fact that we all sin. My biggest concern with the original sin is that by rule/law, it also considers babies as sinners too. What justification is there for a baby to be a considered a sinner? If the baby is a sinner, what sins would a baby commit? Please share your thoughts.

-Yiffzer.

Sinner is not what you commit. Sinner is who you are and who we born from? It is a hand down. When baby become like 1 year old or 2 year old, how that child lie? Where that come from? Why that child favorite word to parent by saying NO with anger? where that come from?

 

[Yiffzer]

I do not think you understand the Biblical definition of "sinner".

sinner - a person who sins (without repenting); evildoer

If an infant who turns 1 years old and screams, "No!", is that a lie? A baby just may be expressing their feelings.

http://childrenscentralcal.org/content.asp?id=1948&parent=1&groupid=G0053

The most typical age of developing the knowledge of lying begins at age 5 - 8. An infant of age 1 or 2 lying? I may be uninformed but babies act on their natural impulses/needs.

Even still, how would they know they're lying? A person doesn't know they're lying until they've learned that it is a sin to do so. A parent would not pout on them until they've reached maturity.

Therefore, babies are not sinners (a person who sins without repenting). This is where original sin doesn't make sense.

A more relevant question would be: if babies died at an early age, will they go to heaven or hell?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

A more relevant question would be: if babies died at an early age, will they go to heaven or hell?

This is a good question.

 

[Banjo]

Babies are perfectly capable of lying within a few months of birth. Babies can fake their crying to get attention or milk. They may do it on impulse but they certainly know that they are faking it.

So in a sense, they do sin because they resort to dishonesty in order to gain.

How do one lie without knowing it's a lie?

 

[Tousi]

In this case, we are not talking about a baby(nor anyone, for that matter)in the act of committing a sin, behavior-wise.
What we are really talking about is the sin NATURE of us all........

 

[Cheri]

In this case, we are not talking about a baby(nor anyone, for that matter)in the act of committing a sin, behavior-wise.
What we are really talking about is the sin NATURE of us all........

!!

 

[Yiffzer]

Babies are perfectly capable of lying within a few months of birth. Babies can fake their crying to get attention or milk. They may do it on impulse but they certainly know that they are faking it.

So in a sense, they do sin because they resort to dishonesty in order to gain.

How do one lie without knowing it's a lie?

Babies may lie but they would do so unknowingly. Therefore to call it an actual lie is a lie in itself! They only do it because it is natural and sometimes necessary. Then again, how would you know they were doing it on purpose of lying? You don't.

 

[Yiffzer]

In this case, we are not talking about a baby(nor anyone, for that matter)in the act of committing a sin, behavior-wise.
What we are really talking about is the sin NATURE of us all........

I would agree that we are sinners in nature but that goes unexplained for an infant that does not know any better. Where would the infant end up - heaven or hell?

 

[Tousi]

I would agree that we are sinners in nature but that goes unexplained for an infant that does not know any better. Where would the infant end up - heaven or hell?

Well, for people who have the capacity, they make their own choice based on free will. As for babies, I am not sure what happens but I am confident allowances are made for them. Let's hope Reba or someone else who knows comes and answers this......

 

[Banjo]

Babies may lie but they would do so unknowingly.

But how do one lie without knowing it's a lie?

I'm not saying that they know it's wrong but they do know when they are forcing themselves to change their facial expressions and emotions in order to get what they want. Like you said, it may be on impulse.

Therefore to call it an actual lie is a lie in itself! They only do it because it is natural and sometimes necessary. Then again, how would you know they were doing it on purpose of lying? You don't.

Of course, they weren't enlightened on the subject matter of lying but they do learn how to deceive people in order to gain even though they aren't aware of the fact that it's frowned upon. If you're around babies often enough, you'll know what I'm talking about.

 

[Yiffzer]

But how do one lie without knowing it's a lie?

Which is why it isn't a sin.

I'm not saying that they know it's wrong but they do know when they are forcing themselves to change their facial expressions and emotions in order to get what they want. Like you said, it may be on impulse.

The bottom line is, they are too young to know this. Especially infants of 6 month old's.

Of course, they weren't enlightened on the subject matter of lying but they do learn how to deceive people in order to gain even though they aren't aware of the fact that it's frowned upon. If you're around babies often enough, you'll know what I'm talking about.

I certainly do! The thing is, they did not know it was a sin in the first place. Therefore, they are not sinners.

 

[Tousi]

Which is why it isn't a sin.



The bottom line is, they are too young to know this. Especially infants of 6 month old's.



I certainly do! The thing is, they did not know it was a sin in the first place. Therefore, they are not sinners.

You keep saying they are not sinners when you just agreed to the sin nature. The babies, just like us, are smitten with this sin nature. None of us, including babies have to consciously or unconsciously commit a sin to become a sinner; we ALREADY are.

 

[Yiffzer]

Human beings are natural sinners. Yes. I agree with that. But babies who have yet to know what a constitutes as a sin is not a sinner. For anyone to be a sinner, they must first acknowledge it as a sin then repeat the same sin again.

 

[Tousi]

Human beings are natural sinners. Yes. I agree with that. But babies who have yet to know what a constitutes as a sin is not a sinner. For anyone to be a sinner, they must first acknowledge it as a sin then repeat the same sin again.

Sorry but I think you fail to realize we, or rather, I am not talking about an act of commission......

 

[Yiffzer]

Act of commission? Authority? I don't think I was referring to that either...

 

[Tousi]

I meant original sin is inherent in everybody, including babies whether they know it or not, commit a sin or not.....

 

[Yiffzer]

In that context, it makes sense. Now I wish to verify what Jesus Christ said of "original sin". Does anyone know what verses may contain Jesus Christ's own words in regards to original sin?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Since Yiffzer's question "A more relevant question would be: if babies died at an early age, will they go to heaven or hell?" I personally beleive that an original sin is a traditional religion theological and also beleive that all the babies were born innoncent but I can't answer either there're Heaven and Hell exist or not.

Yes I'm agree that we all have sin nature because we know what we did wrong to violate the law, rule, etc. but babies and original sin?

Let me answer what I know accord Catholic religion, where I was raised and also Luthern religion where my hubby was raised about dead babies.

If the babies die at birth or whatever, must be baptised straight way before they are buried then they go to heaven. If no baptised then go hell.

Accord JW religion, the people I was grow up and involved with at same school... They don't beleive in baptised babies until they are old enough to understand about their belief first then baptised. Why? because Jesus was being baptised when he was 30 years old, not baby. For JW, unbaptised babies of JW parents were being accept to go heaven.

My Roman Catholic Grandma (My Dad's mother) urged their children to let their babies to baptise straight way after come home from hospital except my Dad... The babies must stay in the house until they are baptist then go outside... I was being baptised when I was 6 weeks old in Scotland where my mom's family generation lives... If we live in London, then I would of baptised straight way after came home from hospitail. It's same with my hubby's family as well... She made an appointment at Church to baptise my son as I was lied in hospitail to have baby. I firmed with her and said NO and wait until I feel ready then... She said that my son MUST stay at home until I feel ready to have him baptise... If any happened to him then he will go hell without baptise. I ingored her warning and still pramed my unbaptised baby outside until Christening Day.... My both boys are being baptised when they were 4 months old.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

If an infant who turns 1 years old and screams, "No!", is that a lie? A baby just may be expressing their feelings.

Children's Hospital

The most typical age of developing the knowledge of lying begins at age 5 - 8. An infant of age 1 or 2 lying? I may be uninformed but babies act on their natural impulses/needs.

Even still, how would they know they're lying? A person doesn't know they're lying until they've learned that it is a sin to do so. A parent would not pout on them until they've reached maturity.

Therefore, babies are not sinners (a person who sins without repenting). This is where original sin doesn't make sense.

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