Original Sin

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Christians, I wish to understand from Christianity's point of view of how and why original sin makes proper sense besides the fact that we all sin. My biggest concern with the original sin is that by rule/law, it also considers babies as sinners too. What justification is there for a baby to be a considered a sinner? If the baby is a sinner, what sins would a baby commit? Please share your thoughts.

-Yiffzer.

You asked me to analyze your belief and your meaning of original sin so here it is:

It makes sense because it is the first thing we all have done as sinners, but how can babies sin? They all do is gurgle and make baby noises, how can they be sinners if they do not know what they really are doing in most cases? Sure, they can be mischevious sometimes, but it is merely in their nature to test their parents to see if the parents can show that they can do good parenting. I'm sure you or your sister have given your parents a hard time when you or your sister were babies. We all probably did give our parents a hard time, right? I know I sure did as a baby. But that doesn't mean babies are sinners if they have not yet developed full cognitive process.
 
Original sin, to me is doing something wrong after have eaten the fruit.

From my theology the sin of Adam by which all humankind fell from God's grace. So, each person is born guilty of sinful nature, even babies. You don't have to do something that is a sin, we all born under control of the sinful future generations, all because of Adam and Eve. Thanks to them. :(
 
Yiffzer...You blame me for not reading carefully..apparently you
have the same affliction, *sigh*....anyway, I, and as well,
other Christians HAVE ALREADY told you that ALL of us, that
includes, you too were born sinners, so that means ALL BABIES
whether they understand or not, they still sin.
Some churches like Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, etc. baptize
babies because as sinners, babies need what baptism offers;
John 3:5-6. No one can enter the Kingdom of God unless he is born
of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the spirit
gives birth to spirit.
Babies also are able to have faith!
 
Some churches like Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, etc. baptize
babies because as sinners, babies need what baptism offers;
John 3:5-6. No one can enter the Kingdom of God unless he is born
of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the spirit
gives birth to spirit.
Babies also are able to have faith!

Yea, Catholic believes that when a baby is baptized, then they'll free from the begin of the original sin. But, Do Christians believe that? I haven't seen that in my bible, I believe babies enter the Kingdom of God, I think the baby has to committed a sin to be guilty of disobeys the law of God, then send to the place of eternal punishment.
 
Yea, Catholic believes that when a baby is baptized, then they'll free from the begin of the original sin. But, Do Christians believe that? I haven't seen that in my bible, I believe babies enter the Kingdom of God, I think the baby has to committed a sin to be guilty of disobeys the law of God, then send to the place of eternal punishment.

Yes, u right, thats what the Catholic believe, if the babies are
baptized, they are saved from going to Hell.
Im just gonna refrain from saying anything about that cuz i believe
otherwise.
Well, i think a child should learn about Jesus and God in order
to be saved from going to hell. Its up to parents to teach
children that responsiblity, IMO.
 
Yea, I know what you mean Defee, I don't think Catholic really understand an original sin really means, It really means we all suffer consequences in life (environment of sin) We become guilty of sin when we commit sin, not before, being baptized does nothing, really it seems a wasted. Some people believe once you're baptized you're home free, safe, and entering the Kingdom of God. No, No , No.

Jesus was tempted too just like we were/are, but Jesus always chose to do right, that's why he wasn't guilty of sin. We have chose to do wrong in our life, and we also have chose to do right in our life, so really it's half/half so that means we are guilty of sin. Babies can't be tempted, How can they? :giggle:
 
Not sure this would relate this thread about "baptism", it's kinda leeway. But It's close enough I see. Like Cheri says about baptism, is true, baptism itself does not lead to heaven, just showing the world you have recieve Christ and i's symbolic. But as a original sin meant what Adam and Eve did by eating forbidden fruit, nothing else. Adam and Eve are married the time they ate the fruit. It's very clear in the scripture. As John 3 said" If a man not been born of water (flesh) and spirit (Holy Spirit) cannot enter Heaven, so man must be born again."
 
From my theology the sin of Adam by which all humankind fell from God's grace. So, each person is born guilty of sinful nature, even babies. You don't have to do something that is a sin, we all born under control of the sinful future generations, all because of Adam and Eve. Thanks to them. :(

But how can a baby sin? We cannot tell what they are thinking.
 
Baby doesn't know anything about sin. That does not mean baby doesn't sin. What is sin? Why we act that way? Where that coming from? What's behind all of that?
 
Baby doesn't know anything about sin. That does not mean baby doesn't sin. What is sin? Why we act that way? Where that coming from? What's behind all of that?

How do you know if a baby does sin if they just wanted to test their parents, biological or surrogate?
 
Babies can only coo when smilin' ..what else ? hmm Babies can see people's faces and smile at them. If, babies cry - it's their communication to let the parents to know that they are hungry, or their diapers are wet, or want to be loved by holdin' or talk to them by hearin' parents' voices. So, therefore the babies don't know what a sin is. Babies are innocent. If, anythin' should happen to them -- they will go to Heaven. :)
 
Interesting.

First allow me to comment on the whole APPLE situation. The Bible never describes what the fruit looks like, or gives any other name other than 'tree of the knowledge of good and evil'. Second, it was in the middle of the garden of eden, and there appears to be only one. It doesn't make sense that we would still be eating the same fruit today. Apples are common fruit, this tree seems to be signifigant. Despite how people want to draw the fruit, the fact is we may never know what it looks like, but it is probably safe to say, it's not an APPLE.

Second, Adam and Eve.
Genesis 2 23
The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman,
for she was taken out of man."

24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.


Eve had just been created, and God states that they have been UNITED, and calls Eve 'wife'. In fact, earlier in Genesis, God commanded that they be 'fruitful and multiply'. It is probably safe to assume that not only did God consider Adam and Eve married, but that Adam and Eve were having intercourse - becoming one flesh.

Christian's believe the following regarding Original Sin, and reffers to Jewish Law, and scripture.

Hebrews 7
18The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

Hebrews 8
7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8But God found fault with the people and said:

"The time is coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.


(Which is from Jeremiah 31:31)
31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to [d] them, [e] "
declares the LORD.

33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
"For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."



Romans 9
1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4 because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

at the risk of cut and pasting all of Hebrews, I will stop here. Read Hebrews.
Hebrews explains a ton from a Christian perspective, connected to what Jewish Law taught.
 
How do you know if a baby does sin if they just wanted to test their parents, biological or surrogate?

Don't confused yourself between 'a sin of action' and 'an original sin [environment of sin]


When a baby is born, a baby is born in the world of sins. Understand now
 
Oh, Semantics...

Original Sin, and Inherent Sin.
The Original Sin is Adam and Eve and the devouring of the fruit.

Inherent Sin, is the sin that is passed down throughout generations, or the whole of humankind. Which can be argued is connected to Adam and Eve, and is passed down from them.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

God's gift is for 'Whoever'. Meaning anyone.
'No one' can go to the Father except through the gift of Jesus.

There are many verses that support the narrowness of the path to heaven. As a Christian, I clain that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven. If I truly believe this statement, then I must accept that there are no exceptions.

Babies do not get a free pass.
Children who don't understand get a free pass.
Those who live issolated do not get a free pass.
Those who are mentally unable to understand do not get a free pass.

I trust that God has a plan. What does God have planned for these circumstances? God's plan is fair, and just, and loving, but I cannot claim that God's plan is to simply let these individuals into heaven. Maybe it is, but it's not my place to say.
 
Well, I found something on this... this could be what we are talking about.

Children brought to Christ.

None are too little, too young, to be brought to Christ, who knows how to show kindness to those not capable of doing service to him. It is the mind of Christ, that little children should be brought to him. The promise is to us, and to our seed; therefore He will bid them welcome to him with us. And we must receive his kingdom as children, not by purchase, and must call it our Father's gift. (Luke 18:18-30)
 
Do you mean Luke 18:15-17?

17 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.

18-30 is of the rich ruler.
:)
 
Don't confused yourself between 'a sin of action' and 'an original sin [environment of sin]


When a baby is born, a baby is born in the world of sins. Understand now

Sorry. but Yiffy wanted to see how babies can sin.

Yes, but that baby can choose not to be part of the sinners. Do you understand?
 
Oh, Semantics...

Original Sin, and Inherent Sin.
The Original Sin is Adam and Eve and the devouring of the fruit.

Inherent Sin, is the sin that is passed down throughout generations, or the whole of humankind. Which can be argued is connected to Adam and Eve, and is passed down from them.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

God's gift is for 'Whoever'. Meaning anyone.
'No one' can go to the Father except through the gift of Jesus.

There are many verses that support the narrowness of the path to heaven. As a Christian, I clain that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven. If I truly believe this statement, then I must accept that there are no exceptions.

Babies do not get a free pass.
Children who don't understand get a free pass.
Those who live issolated do not get a free pass.
Those who are mentally unable to understand do not get a free pass.

I trust that God has a plan. What does God have planned for these circumstances? God's plan is fair, and just, and loving, but I cannot claim that God's plan is to simply let these individuals into heaven. Maybe it is, but it's not my place to say.


Yeah, but how do we know we inherited a lot of sins from Adam and Eve since there was nothing to steal, rape, pillage in a garden that had nothing but animals, trees, flowers, etc.
 
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