Oral school

[faire_jour]

well, I wonder how much you let her use an interpreter for science class and such? you see, I had to sit there in science with only copying notes from the board. I felt that I would do alot better taking class from the internet than copying notes from the board.

She is in a bi-bi school for the Deaf. All of school is conducted in voice off ASL. If she were ever to be mainstreamed, it would be with an interpreter.

(Unless this is addressed to someone else)

 

[jillio]

It's funny. It seems like oral deaf kids shouldn't post here about their experiences because it's somehow twisted to "All deaf kids should do oralism" or "oralism is the best":



or some assume if we post here, we must be unhappy.



mm... yea



Yea talk about judging:.... see the bolded below.



Isn't that a bit narcisstic?

Seems like there's plenty of judging on oral deaf kids. We aren't even promoting oral-only, only sharing experiences. But I guess you guys want to keep our mouths shut....? Any reason why?

Lately, I've been hanging out with more deaf people and I see a lot of narcissism in the deaf community (both in real life and on AD). People feel very strongly about how a deaf one is raised. I understand people have their own thoughts on which method is better and they can't help it. However, what disturbs me greatly is not so much their opinions, but rather that their opinions actually affect their behavior towards someone. I find this wrong, especially in the deaf community. In reality, there really aren't that many deaf people. We don't need this "The Great Divide" crap.

Not narcisstic at all. In fact, I can back that very statement through research.

If you will go back and look at your shared experiences, you fill find that in sharing you don't fail to include a statement regarding your perceived inferiority of deaf schools, or a statement regarding how much more "advanced" or how much higher your IQ was. That is narcisstic. And it also serves to divide much more than you realize.

 

[jillio]

This is a good argument for better amplification. The better they hear, the easier it is to speak.

Again with the focus on speech. One can be fluent in English and never speak a single word. The important thing is to be fluent in English.

Actually the important thing is to be fluent in an L1 language so it can be transferred to the learning of an L2 language in order to increase literacy.

 

[jillio]

My friend's 2 deaf boys dont get ASL exposure as they are in a TC program but they get it from their aunt whenever they visit her. I spent a good amount of time last Sat chatting with them...they both were able to communicate using ASL without a problem. They arent getting it daily that's for sure. Children are amazing how quickly they acquire language. An adult probably wouldnt become fluent by just 20 mins a week.

In fact, because of their environment, and their exposure to both a PSE and ASL, they are no doubt able to code switch quite easily in conversation, depending upon whom they are communicating with.

 

[jillio]

I often SIM-COM ASL. It is bad english, but it gives access for sound and ASL. Not saying it is right, just that it is possible.

Oh, and why is it assumed that because the teachers are hearing that they can't be using ASL? My daughter's teacher is hearing and her ASL is amazing.

If you are sim comming, you aren't using ASL.

 

[shel90]

Not narcisstic at all. In fact, I can back that very statement through research.

If you will go back and look at your shared experiences, you fill find that in sharing you don't fail to include a statement regarding your perceived inferiority of deaf schools, or a statement regarding how much more "advanced" or how much higher your IQ was. That is narcisstic. And it also serves to divide much more than you realize.

Too often deaf signers who grew up going to Deaf schools have been treated as inferior which is a feeding ground for the attitudes that Daredevel speak of. Hearing society is usually responsible for creating these kinds of attitudes within the Deaf community. Sure, I dont like it but I totally understand where they come from. All of their lives they have been judged unfairly because they dont have speech skills. Even myself who have good speech skills still get judged unfairly so it can take a toll on one's perspective on society.

 

[jillio]

So ignore the child's language needs at home? If the need ASL at school, they need it at home. I don't know if it isn't the case in other people's homes, but in ours, parents are the primary teachers for children their whole life. We do science experiments, go to the zoo, talk about the stars...etc.

Plus, if we say "no signing at home" wouldn't that make her think that we don't value ASL or that it is "lower" or somehow less important than spoken language? Is that what we should be teaching her??

Then why the switch to an oral focus? You can easily reverse your statement as well. If they need ASL at home, they most certainly need it at school.

 

[Bottesini]

So ignore the child's language needs at home? If the need ASL at school, they need it at home. I don't know if it isn't the case in other people's homes, but in ours, parents are the primary teachers for children their whole life. We do science experiments, go to the zoo, talk about the stars...etc.

Plus, if we say "no signing at home" wouldn't that make her think that we don't value ASL or that it is "lower" or somehow less important than spoken language? Is that what we should be teaching her??

Who said no ASL? Why not a daily lesson time for spoken language?
I am the last person who would say such a thing as no signing at home.

 

[jillio]

Of course we do that. But she is literally in silence all day at school. It is not a good enviroment for a child who is learning to use her auditory skills. She should have the opportunity to use both.

She can't possibly be in silence all day. She may be in a signing environment, but the last I checked, a signing environment is far from silent.

 

[shel90]

She can't possibly be in silence all day. She may be in a signing environment, but the last I checked, a signing environment is far from silent.

 

[jillio]

It is not SIM COM if the signs are dropped. Hmmm...in my opinion, BiBi can allow for spoken English in some classes when appropriate but no SIM-COM.

Bingo! Bi-Bi's focus on oracy as one of its components.

 

[jillio]

She is in a bi-bi school for the Deaf. All of school is conducted in voice off ASL. If she were ever to be mainstreamed, it would be with an interpreter.

(Unless this is addressed to someone else)

But you have also stated, since she received her CI, that her being in a voice off Bi-Bi classroom is one of the problems you are having with her placement. You have certainly complained about it enough, and have even made statements regarding the fact that you don't like her being in a voice off environment in this very thread just a few posts back. So which is it. Okay to be in a voice off environment, or is not okay to be in a voice off environment?

 

[jillio]

Too often deaf signers who grew up going to Deaf schools have been treated as inferior which is a feeding ground for the attitudes that Daredevel speak of. Hearing society is usually responsible for creating these kinds of attitudes within the Deaf community. Sure, I dont like it but I totally understand where they come from. All of their lives they have been judged unfairly because they dont have speech skills. Even myself who have good speech skills still get judged unfairly so it can take a toll on one's perspective on society.

Exactly. And when statements are made that one is "too intelligent" or "too advanced" for a deaf school, then one simply keeps that going.

 

[shel90]

Exactly. And when statements are made that one is "too intelligent" or "too advanced" for a deaf school, then one simply keeps that going.

Oh...out in the Deaf community, if anyone says that, a lot of people will be turned off big time. It is a big insult. I used to say things like that..no wonder the Phx Deaf community rejected me when I first learned ASL and tried to befriend them.At first, I thought they were the ones who had the problems not me but as I gained more and more understanding of the Deaf community and culture, looking back, I do NOT blame them at all!

 

[jillio]

Oh...out in the Deaf community, if anyone says that, a lot of people will be turned off big time. It is a big insult. I used to say things like that..no wonder the Phx Deaf community rejected me when I first learned ASL and tried to befriend them.At first, I thought they were the ones who had the problems not me but as I gained more and more understanding of the Deaf community and culture, looking back, I do NOT blame them at all!

Nor do I. I just don't get why people don't understand that when they make the same statements on a message board comprised of a majority of deaf people, that they will get the same reaction. Yet those kind of statements continue to be made, the reactions are always the same, and the people making them are all confused as to why they have gotten the same reaction over and over. It simply makes no sense. Then they get upset and say we are picking on the oralists, and 2 days later, will start another thread on the same topic. Its like they think if they ask the question often enough, they will finally get different answers.

 

[shel90]

Nor do I. I just don't get why people don't understand that when they make the same statements on a message board comprised of a majority of deaf people, that they will get the same reaction. Yet those kind of statements continue to be made, the reactions are always the same, and the people making them are all confused as to why they have gotten the same reaction over and over. It simply makes no sense. Then they get upset and say we are picking on the oralists, and 2 days later, will start another thread on the same topic. Its like they think if they ask the question often enough, they will finally get different answers.

It took me years to finally understand it. I guess it depends on each individual.

 

[jillio]

It took me years to finally understand it. I guess it depends on each individual.

You're right, no doubt. I guess there is some magic number out there for everyone....."If I say it 1,000,000 times, and still get the same reaction, maybe I'll look at what I am saying instead of the way everyone is reacting for the problem." :shrug:

 

[Daredevel7]

Not narcisstic at all. In fact, I can back that very statement through research.

If you will go back and look at your shared experiences, you fill find that in sharing you don't fail to include a statement regarding your perceived inferiority of deaf schools, or a statement regarding how much more "advanced" or how much higher your IQ was. That is narcisstic. And it also serves to divide much more than you realize.

I don't think it's possible for me to share my experiences in a way that's neutral and does not "show my perceived inferiority of deaf schools." All I said was that I was rejected from a deaf school as a result from an IQ test they gave me. That is an event, not an opinion. Narcissism is not based on things that happen to you; it's based on what you think about others. Anyway, I guess I'll have to keep my mouth shut. My experiences are basically inconvenient truths. The only way people would be happy to hear about my oral experiences is if I complain about my life.

 

[faire_jour]

But you have also stated, since she received her CI, that her being in a voice off Bi-Bi classroom is one of the problems you are having with her placement. You have certainly complained about it enough, and have even made statements regarding the fact that you don't like her being in a voice off environment in this very thread just a few posts back. So which is it. Okay to be in a voice off environment, or is not okay to be in a voice off environment?

No, I do not think that a voice-off enviroment is the best place for her. Problem is that I don't have another option. The choice is no ASL or voice off.

 

[jillio]

I don't think it's possible for me to share my experiences in a way that's neutral and does not "show my perceived inferiority of deaf schools." All I said was that I was rejected from a deaf school as a result from an IQ test they gave me. That is an event, not an opinion. Narcissism is not based on things that happen to you; it's based on what you think about others. Anyway, I guess I'll have to keep my mouth shut. My experiences are basically inconvenient truths. The only way people would be happy to hear about my oral experiences is if I complain about my life.

Actually narcissim can be founded in actual events, when the significance of those events is exaggerated.

And you stated last night that you weren't even certain it was an IQ test, but that is just what your mother had told you.

Your experiences aren't inconvenient truths. Your experiences are what you have been told they are, or what you perceive them to be based on your own perspective. It doesn't, in any way, confer inferiority on another.

I wonder if you are as happy with your oral experience as you claim to be. After all, what do you have to compare it to?