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Russa

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Hello, I'm a student at Arizona State University, and currently studying sign and interpreting. I have been using ASL inside and outside the classroom for over four years, performing, interpreting, and learning as much as I can.

I'm currently working on a report about the Deaf culture/community, and it ties in to the Disabilities Act. Would anyone be offended if I asked some questions and used your quotes in my paper? Please let me know. :gossip:

:dance: RUSSA
 
:wave: welcome to AD Russa -- enjoy ur stay here! :D

I dont think anyone would be offended if u had questions for us and ur quoting us on ur paper -- fire away! :D
 
Hi,

Oh no, we won't feel offended by whatever question you have in mind as long it nothing personal about us ladies here :twisted: LOL...
 
Thank-you

Ok, great, thanks so much :)

First question, then.
What do you think brought the Deaf Culture into being; do you think it was the separateness that deafness creates between people, or because ASL is a different language, or, as many hearing people think, did the label "disabled" cause the culture because of a need to feel "special"?

And again, sorry if it sounds offensive, it's the format I'm stuck in, I have to ask :|

:dance: RUSSA
 
I think it was to rebel against oralism. To separate themselves from that. I think it was also Cochlear Implant that made Deaf Community bigger.
 
Cochlear

Do you mean that the cochlear implant debate has caused the Deaf community to be more well-known, or that it's caused it to become more defined?
I would think it would be the opposite, because with more medical advancements physical deafness is no longer clearly defined, which has to have some effect on the Deaf culture.

:dance: RUSSA
 
You could say that as another possibility. I guess that for some who are into the Deaf Community, they strengthened it or are struggling to keep it. I think that the Deaf Community is trying to break off people who are different, but I think that those who search out better hearing devices or communication try to stay with them. It's usually the Deaf Community trying to shun them off because they are afraid that it will change them or something. I think many people with CI's or oral communication want to stay and be a part of anyone who's deaf/Deaf but because of their controversies, it drives them away.
 
Hm, Tiara has a different thought.
I will go ahead and put my inputs.


Q: What do you think brought the Deaf Culture into being; do you think it was the separateness that deafness creates between people, or because ASL is a different language, or, as many hearing people think, did the label "disabled" cause the culture because of a need to feel "special"?
A: I think the struggles and similar experiences of being a deaf person brings the culture altogether. I am able to understand Deaf jokes, stories, "steretypos" of a Deaf person, identify several "subcultures" within the Deaf Culture (Deaf Miliant, Deaf, deaf, CODA, Oral, Et cetera) and able to bond with a deaf stranger with hardships in our lives-- frustrating situtation at a fast-food when a hearing cashier keeps yelling "DO YOU WANT FRIES WIHT THAT OR NOT?!" after you said, "huh?"... This definitely separates us from the hearing population (expect those who don't speak English as a first language, they may relate with us in some degree when they cannot understand English-speakers) I dont think it is because of the language as the main contributor to Deaf Culture. Oral deaf people doesn't use ASL but they still have some culture when they bond wtih other orals who understand the problems one may face. You can compare Deaf with one of miniorities of colors-- Blacks, Mexican et cetera. There are many different hispanic groups-- Chilean, Spaniards, Mexican, Brazilians-- all of them speak different laugages (or dialect) but they bond to the fact that they were oppressed and struggled with the majority based on their race. We, the deaf, struggles based on our (lackof) sense.


Q: Do you mean that the cochlear implant debate has caused the Deaf community to be more well-known, or that it's caused it to become more defined?
A: I think the issue of CI has contoured the Deaf culture... there are some captial D deaf that do have cochlear impants... there are some that use CI as an excuse to separate one, some use CI to able to live easily in hearing world but still hold ties with Deaf culture. You can see Anti-CI deafies, "Pro-Choice" deafie and et cetera. This does create "boundaries" line, dashed lines if you will to work with me, between groups in Deaf Culture but all of them still stand in the circle of Deaf Culture. It was blurred-- what does it take to be a DEAF? A deaf family, deaf school, deaf friends only? Not anymore. It have expanded and more defined to be accurate and "politically correct" (not the best word but ah, again-- work with me.) It seems that there are groups that react differently within a single large minority-- it gives you an idea of what is the common trait underlying all across different "subcultures" for the Deaf Culture-- we all were oppressed at least once in our lifetimes and we are fighting back to be ACKNOWLEGED AND RESPECTED.

Ah. [stepping down from the soapbox]
 
Damn gnarly, I wish more deaf people would read all sides. There's barely any new or interesting debates like this. We can't be the same at all. It is not gonna happen. Why are we just like some white hating blacks? Ugh! It's sickening. We don't need to do create separations. We can all share differences because we will continue to grow up different. Why can't we just accept everyone and say "hey, you're deaf? So what?! At least we both are deaf!" (without comparing what deaf skills you got. We all share SOMETHING
 
hmmm ... I had always thought it was ASL which was the core of the Deaf culture, but you, gnarly, are saying that is the experiences of the people that brought the culture together, and you seem to be including all "supressed peoples" into the Deaf culture. Would you also include other groups labeled "disabled," such as the blind or paraplegic, or do you only mean ethnic minorities, such as Mexicans, because most of them share the language barrier problems?

Tiara, you seem to be saying the same thing, that it is the shared experiences of the people that brought the culture together and which continue to hold it together through everything, even the inventions which can help the deaf to hear.

Are you both in agreement then, that it is not ASL which created the culture, but that the Deaf culture was created out of a need to share with others who have lived similar lives and been through some of the same struggles?

And do all of you think that the suppression and separation you mentioned are the result of the hearing idea of Deafness being a lack of something, a disability? I know people, both deaf and hearing, who believe deafness is a gift, an opportunity to understand the world in a different way. And of course the other side of that, also held by both deaf and hearing, is that deafness is not normal and should be fixed so that the people who can't hear will be able to function in a normal world.

What do you guys think?

:dance: RUSSA
 
Russa said:
Do you mean that the cochlear implant debate has caused the Deaf community to be more well-known, or that it's caused it to become more defined?
Click to expand...

The CI issue came down on the deaf community like an ax. One community became two well defined halves with one chosing to stay the old dependent ways in terms of communication issues while the other advanced above the rest to become part of the mainstream society.

Richard
 
Nesmuth said:
One community became two well defined halves with one chosing to stay the old dependent ways in terms of communication issues while the other advanced above the rest to become part of the mainstream society.
Click to expand...

Do you believe that the Deaf community should not be separate from the hearing world? Where does that put the Deaf culture then?

If deaf children are implanted as soon as they shown signs of being unable to hear, they will not have the shared experiences of the Deaf community, which Gnarly and Tiara seem to think are necessary to the culture. And those children would be unable to learn sign for a long period of time, because the scientists and doctors who administer the implant "recommend" using only voice so that the child learns to hear and voice as much as possible, and they believe signing will become a crutch to use when something is hard to say (and I'm not saying that I agree, necessarily, but that's the way it goes).

:dance: RUSSA
 
If deaf children are implanted as soon as they shown signs of being unable to hear, they will not have the shared experiences of the Deaf community, which Gnarly and Tiara seem to think are necessary to the culture. And those children would be unable to learn sign for a long period of time, because the scientists and doctors who administer the implant "recommend" using only voice so that the child learns to hear and voice as much as possible, and they believe signing will become a crutch to use when something is hard to say (and I'm not saying that I agree, necessarily, but that's the way it goes).

:dance: RUSSA[/QUOTE]

Russa,

I grew up oral and never knew ASL until I was in my mid 20s. I bonded with other Deaf people because of shared experiences, not ASL itself. After I became fluent in ASL, it did enhance my bonding but I now have a CI and I still view myself as a member of Deaf Culture.

Communication is just a tool - it helps but does not mean an essential in what keeps this Deaf Community going.

My niece is 10 years old and has a CI but she bonds very well with me because she knows I am deaf and we can share our perspectives of life, etc.
 
and yet, the communication is at the core of the deaf experience; without the problems inherent in voiced vs. signed languages, the Deaf community would not be facing any problems. Would there still be a Deaf culture if there was no language barrier; again, are all minorities with English as a second language thus included in the Deaf culture because of their shared experiences in being suppressed and growing up unable to function well in an English-speaking country?

:dance: RUSSA
 
and yet, the communication is at the core of the deaf experience; without the problems inherent in voiced vs. signed languages, the Deaf community would not be facing any problems. Would there still be a Deaf culture if there was no language barrier; again, are all minorities with English as a second language thus included in the Deaf culture because of their shared experiences in being suppressed and growing up unable to function well in an English-speaking country? typed by Russa

I see where you want us to go... I would say: no, all other minorities with an ESL aren't included in our Deaf Culture because they don't have the similar experiences of being discriminated based on their ability to hear. They have a different history of oppression compared to ours. Every group who doesn't use English as their primary language is oppressed. Given my impression based on your questions, you want us to admit that ASL is a tool of Deaf culture... yes, it is a TOOL that enables communication WITHIN the culture. If there is no language barrier, we will still devise our own Deaf culture because of bias the people have against us. A born-American Mexican child will have frustrations with people who think s/he is illegal and doesn't know English when s/he graduates in honor rolls and knows little Spanish. This is DISCRIMINATION. IT doesn't matter what language we have, we the Deaf people all understand who are our enemies-- the narrow-minded hearing people. The oral Deaf people understand this because they get discriminated as well-- "Why are you trying to be one of us? Couldn't you see that you are a freakshow with your weird pronunication sounds and all that?" Deaf get discimrinated because people think we are stupid if we are mute. "I SAID YOU NEED TO PAY CASH... What? what do you mean you cannot hear me? I SAID... What? Gosh, what is wrong with you?" ... ASL is not the core of Deaf Culture. It may be our primary tool to connect and "spread" (i would like to use "Expand") our Deaf Culture by meeting other people. A lonely black person in a large white city will feel enriched by knowledge of history, experiences, and the feelings of being UNDERSTOOD because others have been through the same thing when the black person meets a large group of Blacks within the white-populated city and thus this black person takes on the "African-America" culture...
make it Politically Correct if you want-- white=causcians, black-=africans, african-american, et cetera but the point is my example that I still firmly stand by my opinion that it is the EXPERIENCES that bond people within a culture, not necessarily the language.
 
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Russa said:
Do you believe that the Deaf community should not be separate from the hearing world? Where does that put the Deaf culture then?

If deaf children are implanted as soon as they shown signs of being unable to hear, they will not have the shared experiences of the Deaf community, which Gnarly and Tiara seem to think are necessary to the culture. And those children would be unable to learn sign for a long period of time, because the scientists and doctors who administer the implant "recommend" using only voice so that the child learns to hear and voice as much as possible, and they believe signing will become a crutch to use when something is hard to say (and I'm not saying that I agree, necessarily, but that's the way it goes).
Click to expand...

But in that child's future, the child will encounter frustrations and confusion about why people treat him/her differently... which leads him/her to seek people who have same problems as him/her. Or the child will wonder WHY her/his parents choose and prompts him/her to seek out of his/her "alternate report"-- the other life s/he may lead; this results in an EXPOSURE to Deaf Culture... this will open one's eyes to see that there are people like one... and there are many different "types" of deaf and there are actually a group of CI Deaf as well??? This may bait her/him in or repeals him/her but either way, Deaf culture makes an impact on his/her life. S/he is aware that there are people LIKE him/her. Sometime in every deaf (fixed or not) person's life, they will discover something new about their "disability." The only people that doesn't fit in Deaf culture are the senior citizens who have hearing loss in their 70s.
I think King I. Jordan will be the perfect candidate for this question.... I would be curious to see his answer because he grew up hearing until age 21 when he suddenly lost his hearing... and now he is calling himself deaf.
That shows that deaf world and hearing world are not necessarily separate... rather both do overlap...like a venn diagram. There are some hearing people who don't know about deaf people/culture/whatever... but there are some that do know deaf culture... while deaf people may never meet another deaf person for most of their life... then there are deaf people who KNOW deaf people....
the gray matter is the hearing people exposed to deafness and deaf who never meet another deaf person. The gray matter is the people who don't grow up with the Deaf culture but they still can partake at any time of their lives--
And i know you will try to buzz me with my contradiation-- "The only people that doesn't fit in Deaf culture are the senior citizens who have hearing loss in their 70s" and "they still can partake [Deaf culture] at any time of their lives"... I am only saying that senior citizens would have difficulty to understand the experiences because the majority in general excused the deaf senior citizens from the bias regarding deafness because it is an age thing that just happen to them. "Eh? What?" "Ah, grandpa, put on your hearing aid!" No discriminations (well age discriminations occur to senior citizens) occur to the senior citizens.. none of them encounter oralism.
Again, the theme of Deaf Culture is the shared experiences.
 
I believe Gnarly has spoken well on this topic -- I, myself, grew up with a CI since the age of 2. I am part of the Deaf community because I understand the frustration and experience of the Deaf -- this, as Gnarly pointed out, ties me in with the Deaf culture. I grew up oral and I was doing well in the hearing world -- but there are times, and it's not rare or seldom, that I encounter ignorant people who disrespect me as an individual just because I either misunderstood or did not hear them. If I hadn't found the Deaf community within reach, I would be overwhelming depressed, because no one else will understand what's it is like in our "world". I feel more comfortable bonding with those who have shared "deaf" experience

ASL is only a tool for us to communciate with each other. Obviously we can not hear each other voices. Does speaking English make the entire hearing community -- no, it does not. Rather it's people's perspective on common sense, traditions, experiences, et cetra.. Also, keep in mind that ASL is not a national sign language. Just like in the hearing world there's English, Spanish, German, Japanese, Chinese... etc etc... There's BSL, AUSLAN, MSL, FSL, etc etc, so that should give a sense of how universal and diverse the Deaf community is.

The Blind, the handicapped are all in their own subculture -- they are not considered part of the Deaf culture because they obviously are able to socialize with others -- people are more courteous towards them because it's a physical disability, and I believe people are more aware of how to be polite toward them. However, Deaf people have a social disability -- and most people would not know we are deaf until they try talking to us - or don't bother once they sense it. We are pretty much barred from the hearing world in some aspects. We encounter hang-ups on relay calls because sometimes they think we are a waste of their time. There are some job discrimination, being passed over for jobs qualified for just because "oh s/he's deaf... can't talk, no way to communicate." Sadly many people still make assumations based on the old "fact" of being deaf and "dumb".

As for senior citizens who are losing their hearing, they are not part of the Deaf community because universally people understand that it's part of the aging process, and are more compassive towards them due to age. And usually elders do deny their hearing loss.

I actually wrote a paper for my Independent Studies for my BA in Anthropology on Deaf culture, and if I still have a copy of it, perhaps you may be intersted in it?
 
I think you got the answers that are not biased. Hope it answers you questions for the paper. If you have more or want more clarification, keep asking. :D
 
Thank you guys so much, and I'm really sorry if I sounded like one of those narrowminded hearing people :| I just really needed the words to use, and I had to be devil's advocate so that I can build that same argument back up in my paper. :type:

I actually wrote a paper for my Independent Studies for my BA in Anthropology on Deaf culture, and if I still have a copy of it, perhaps you may be intersted in it?

that would be wonderful, Sweet_KJ, thanks :ty: :)


I respect the Deaf culture very much, and I'm glad I had this chance to learn more. Thank you all for your patience :wave:
And I'll be writing until the 26th of October, so if there's anything else that you guys think I should have asked but didn't, please let me know.


:dance: RUSSA
 
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