'Open Carry' Law Contoversy: Gun Owner Cited

[Jiro]

Your argument about people having driver's license with no car...you said one reason might be that they can rent a car with it. So, if you want that to apply to CCW, you will have to show that people who have a CCW without a gun could also rent a gun with their CCW. Otherwise, your whole foundation of your argument drops out. That is why the car issue is a strawman.

One reason? There were several other reasons.

People cannot decide on which CCW-type gun to get. That is the biggest reason. CCW gun is very very very expensive and it's non-refundable.

 

[Jiro]

How many CCWs carry other people's guns?

quite a handful.

Generally, they would be the ones who are in a dangerous situation as the result of job duties. I have already said that I have no problem with people having CCWs when they need and need can be supported. I have trouble with CCWs being abused by people that are never in a dangerous situation, or could use other measures, carrying one.

so you are in fact supporting CCW-ban law for ALL law-abiding citizens.

Off-duty officers are already exempted from that law.

 

[Jiro]

How about if the robber approaches you from behind, you are surprised, and he has you on your back with his foot on your throat before you have the time to even know that you are in danger? Concealed weapon isn't going to do you much good. You didn't have the opportunity to even un-conceal it. But chances are, he will rob you of that, too. Great...another thug with a gun.

How would robber know if I'm carrying a concealed gun? He would be digging into my pocket, grab my wallet, and run away. Why would he patting me down like a police officer?

I've never ever heard of a case like this.... it's so comical that I could have sworn you got it off from some mafia movie. Can you please post a link to any case you conjured up instead of concocting a comical what-if scenario? It would strengthen your case.

 

[jillio]

One reason? There were several other reasons.

People cannot decide on which CCW-type gun to get. That is the biggest reason. CCW gun is very very very expensive and it's non-refundable.

That doesn't explain why you would have a CCW and not own a gun. Take your time and buy the gun you want. Keep it at home. Then apply for the CCW.

 

[deafskeptic]

Start shooting? then does that mean you are going to pack a heat if you are carrying $1,000+?

You have a choice to carry a CCW and you have a choice to exercise that rights if you are being robbed - whatever the amount it is.

If I were a gun owner, I would prolly pack heat everytime I go out. However, I would not use guns every time I felt threatened. Shooting someone over 4 dollars would not be worth the legal issues unless I also was being raped at the same time. Nor would shooting someone over a hundred bucks be worth it.

Shooting someone over a grand would be worth it in some situations. That's a lot of money and it would mean the difference between my necessities and the street. My first reaction would be to get out of danger as soon as possible and leave unnoticed if possible. In short, I would keep keep the need to protect myself to a minimum.

I have always believed in resorting to violence as a last resort when all esle fails. I'd do my best to avoid known danger spots and take common sense precautions so I'm not likely to robbed. Of course, not all situations can be avoided and then you would need to defend yourself as a first resort and not as a last one.

 

[jillio]

How would robber know if I'm carrying a concealed gun? He would be digging into my pocket, grab my wallet, and run away. Why would he patting me down like a police officer?

I've never ever heard of a case like this.... it's so comical that I could have sworn you got it off from some mafia movie. Can you please post a link to any case you conjured up instead of concocting a comical what-if scenario? It would strengthen your case.

Where do you have it concealed, Jiro? Up your rear end? You just described a physical encounter. If it is under your coat, he's gonna know it is there!

 

[Reba]

I believe that there are people who need to be armed with a CCW. The average Joe walking down the street is not one of them.

You certainly aren't saying that you would be the person to determine the need for someone else to carry a concealed gun, are you? Certainly, that would be up to "Joe" to decide for himself, not you.

 

[Jiro]

I have trouble with CCWs being abused by people that are never in a dangerous situation, or could use other measures, carrying one.

Great...another thug with a gun.

really????? let's see...............

Salt Lake City cop

A Salt Lake City police officer was breathing a sigh of relief Friday after his lost-and-loaded duty firearm was recovered.

The officer had lost the matte black Glock semi-automatic handgun on Wednesday after leaving the weapon on the trunk lid of his car and then driving off.

Slain Cop's Gun Missing Suspect's Fingerprints - New York Daily News

Queens police and prosecutors claim Dien and Arthur LaMothe, intending to rob Fitzgerald, attacked the intoxicated police sergeant after he was involved in a car accident with a livery cab driver in East Elmhurst on Sept. 13, 1997.

The attackers grabbed Fitzgerald's gun and Fitzgerald was shot during a struggle for the weapon, authorities said.

The two men are charged with felony murder and are being held without bail. LaMothe was arrested a week after the shooting; Dien was charged two months later. A trial date has not yet been set.

Gun missing after detective accidentally leaves it in a bathroom | Weird | North Portland News

PORTLAND, Ore. - The Oregon State Police is trying to track down one of its department-issued guns that was accidentally left in a hospital restroom by a detective who was there investigating a case.

The gun, a black Glock Model 22, was left at a restroom at Legacy Emanuel Medical Center on Wednesday. According to the Oregon State Police, the detective went into a unisex restroom near the Intensive Care Unit and set down the gun, which was in a holster. The detective then left and did not notice it was missing until after leaving the hospital.

And I have not been able to find any incidents similar like above for law-abiding citizens with CCW. Can anybody help me?

 

[jillio]

You certainly aren't saying that you would be the person to determine the need for someone else to carry a concealed gun, are you? Certainly, that would be up to "Joe" to decide for himself, not you.

Nope. I am saying the people that do make those decisions need to impose reasonable restrictions that allow for the advantage in a necessary and risky situation without placing the public in possible danger in situations that do not involve risk.

Why are a couple of posters having such trouble understanding what I am saying? I am beginning to suspect it is willful. Especially when they engage in the tactic of answering a question with another question instead of an answer. Not a very good way to engage in discussion.

 

[Jiro]

That doesn't explain why you would have a CCW and not own a gun. Take your time and buy the gun you want. Keep it at home. Then apply for the CCW.

that's not for you to decide. the law allows them to apply for it even if you don't own a gun. if it's legal, then it's legal.

are you saying it should be illegal?

 

[Reba]

Your argument about people having driver's license with no car...you said one reason might be that they can rent a car with it. So, if you want that to apply to CCW, you will have to show that people who have a CCW without a gun could also rent a gun with their CCW.

Yes, they can. They can also borrow one.

 

[Jiro]

Where do you have it concealed, Jiro? Up your rear end? You just described a physical encounter. If it is under your coat, he's gonna know it is there!

where? I'm not telling you. that's the whole purpose of concealment!

so why would a robber take his time and give me a pat-down like a police officer? does it make any sense to you????? You know very well that his only target is my wallet in my wallet and he ain't gonna stick around once he gets his hands on wallet.

 

[jillio]

that's not for you to decide. the law allows them to apply for it even if you don't own a gun. if it's legal, then it's legal.

are you saying it should be illegal?

For the average Joe that is never in a situation involving risk and the probability is great that he never will be? Yeah, he needs to keep his weapons at home if he feels the need to have them. He can protect himself there if necessary. No one else around to suffer the consequences of his actions.

You never answered my question. Do you support the public smoking ban?

 

[Daredevel7]

See Reba's Post #698

and many New Yorkers have driver license but do not own a car. Why? I don't know but with driver license, they can rent a car like Zip Car.

Thanks.. but... all of those reasons are gun related..... Identification purpose is not driving related.

Anyway, I was just curious if somehow CCW license was used for something that was not gun related. Guess not.

Carry on with the comparison of drivers and CCW licenses

*whispers* Hey Jiro... I'm not sure what is your point with the comparison. Can you fill me in?

 

[Reba]

Aren't there reasons to have a driver's license without driving, such as identification purposes? What would be the reason for having gun permits, CCW, etc without guns? Just curious.

So when the time comes that you want a gun for concealed carry, you are ready. One doesn't acquire a CCW overnight. Sometimes, by the time a class is scheduled, you take the class, and all the paperwork and checking is processed, it could be several weeks.

Also, at least in SC, a CCW permit expedites gun purchases and range privileges.

 

[jillio]

where? I'm not telling you. that's the whole purpose of concealment!

so why would a robber take his time and give me a pat-down like a police officer? does it make any sense to you????? You know very well that his only target is my wallet in my wallet and he ain't gonna stick around once he gets his hands on wallet.

And only a pickpocket would take it from you without overpowering you first. You wouldn't even realize it was gone until you reached for it. If he physically overpowers you, you don't think he is going to know you have a gun on your person? Come on.

 

[jillio]

So when the time comes that you want a gun for concealed carry, you are ready. One doesn't acquire a CCW overnight. Sometimes, by the time a class is scheduled, you take the class, and all the paperwork and checking is processed, it could be several weeks.

Also, at least in SC, a CCW permit expedites gun purchases and range privileges.

You don't need a gun on your person today, but tomorrow your situation is going to change so drastically that you have to be carrying one immediately? Unlikely.

 

[Jiro]

If I were a gun owner, I would prolly pack heat everytime I go out. However, I would not use guns every time I felt threatened. Shooting someone over 4 dollars would not be worth the legal issues unless I also was being raped at the same time. Nor would shooting someone over a hundred bucks be worth it.

Shooting someone over a grand would be worth it in some situations. That's a lot of money and it would mean the difference between my necessities and the street. My first reaction would be to get out of danger as soon as possible and leave unnoticed if possible. In short, I would keep keep the need to protect myself to a minimum.

I have always believed in resorting to violence as a last resort when all esle fails. I'd do my best to avoid known danger spots and take common sense precautions so I'm not likely to robbed. Of course, not all situations can be avoided and then you would need to defend yourself as a first resort and not as a last one.

Jillio - do you believe deafskeptic should have rights to pack a heat for protection because of what she described in her post - carrying $$$$ or rape?

 

[deafskeptic]

And only a pickpocket would take it from you without overpowering you first. You wouldn't even realize it was gone until you reached for it. If he physically overpowers you, you don't think he is going to know you have a gun on your person? Come on.

And if I'm not mistaken, the last thing a pickpocket will want is a confrontation with his victim.

 

[Jiro]

And only a pickpocket would take it from you without overpowering you first. You wouldn't even realize it was gone until you reached for it.

whoa....... you surely are over-analyzing and over-predicting everything....

If a pickpocket is gone before I could react, then that's too bad. I'm not going to chase after him and start a'blazing away. That's just crazy and reckless.

If he physically overpowers you, you don't think he is going to know you have a gun on your person? Come on.

um....... how? the only way he'll know is giving me a pat-down.... TSA style.