'Open Carry' Law Contoversy: Gun Owner Cited

[TWA]

so...... why do you want a gun?

I said I am considering getting a shotgun for home defense. Since I moved to DC, I have become more concerned with crime rates.

Where did I say you don't have a right to defend your home? I believe guns for home defense are allowable, but not allowable outside the home or private business, except for hunting or target practice/training, etc..

 

[jillio]

It goes to show that pepper spray is NOT an equivalent substitute for firearms.

No it doesn't. Most people would be subdued with pepper spray. It really doesn't take a bullet. Rare is the case that pepper spray would not subdue an individual enough to use physical force to overpower them (as in the case of law enforcement) or for a citizen to make a quick escape from the situation.

 

[jillio]

so why is it ok with you that cop makes a fatal mistake but not law-abiding citizen?

It isn't okay at all. Never did I say that the judgement of these officers was okay. They will be held accountable.

Becausel the vast majority of law abiding citizens have no business making life and death decisions, for the very reasons you have displayed. You are not a cop. You may want to be a cop, but you are not a cop. You cannot act like a cop, you cannot assume the responsibility of a cop, you cannot take the law into your own hands.

 

[Jiro]

This is a hypothetical. Show me an example of 5-10 officers subduing a single individual, and I will pass judgement on that particular situation.

really? I mean really? this happens in news on nearly weekly basis.

around 2:00
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTVnpr2ZqZg]Police Chase - YouTube[/ame]

around 0:30
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSUtQN2b96E]High speed police chase ends in crash on Mass Pike - YouTube[/ame]

Why use a taser or a baton? Less change of fatal injury. Duh.

but you just criticized this officer for using pepper spray.

Who are you, Jackie Chan?

me? I'm not the one who are arresting thugs... they are. Would you prefer that they use kung-fu moves first?

 

[Jiro]

I said I am considering getting a shotgun for home defense. Since I moved to DC, I have become more concerned with crime rates.

Where did I say you don't have a right to defend your home? I believe guns for home defense are allowable, but not allowable outside the home or private business, except for hunting or target practice/training, etc..

but.... you said in your post #443 -

When a robber uses a gun, it is almost always for intimidation only. They do not intend to fire, and are probably just as scared by the possibly of firing the weapon as the victim is.

so why not use a toy shotgun and take the orange tip off?

 

[Jiro]

It isn't okay at all. Never did I say that the judgement of these officers was okay. They will be held accountable.

Becausel the vast majority of law abiding citizens have no business making life and death decisions, for the very reasons you have displayed. You are not a cop. You may want to be a cop, but you are not a cop. You cannot act like a cop, you cannot assume the responsibility of a cop, you cannot take the law into your own hands.

so where did I say I want to act like a cop or assume the responsibility of cop?

Didn't you miss these posts?

6. I've been a CCW holder in over 40 states for a couple years now and during that time period, I've never ever carried a gun in public

huh? why would you say such silly thing? why would I get involved in something that doesn't involve me? you should be calling 911, not me. I'm not a police nor a vigilante. It's your problem, not my problem.

FYI - I do not make a life and death decision. A criminal does. He has every power and control that would dictate my next course of action. If he causes me to shoot him, that's his fault, not mine. I did not make a decision for him, he did.

 

[deafskeptic]

I said I am considering getting a shotgun for home defense. Since I moved to DC, I have become more concerned with crime rates.

Where did I say you don't have a right to defend your home? I believe guns for home defense are allowable, but not allowable outside the home or private business, except for hunting or target practice/training, etc..

I used to live in DC and I've walked by myself without a gun in the neighborhoods around the Kendall Green though I will grant I'm not crazy enough to walk by myself in the dark. Nothing ever happened to me.

I remember that my hearing roommate at Gally who wasn't familiar with the neighborhood, decided to get a hamburger at 2 am in the morning. She said as she went to the drive in, some guys wanted to wash her car for 5 dollars and when she refused, they got mad at her and banged on her car. She fled the Burger King because they scared her. I remember thinking to myself are you crazy? Going to BK at 2 am is a no no around here.

 

[TWA]

but.... you said in your post #443 -


so why not use a toy shotgun and take the orange tip off?

Why would you do that? That's just idiotic. I don't understand your line of argument here. You really are getting desperate at this point.

I was talking about robberies that occur at businesses, specifically the video you posted with the thug, rambo, and three innocent bystanders--not in the home. CCW pertains to outside the home, right? I thought we were discussing carry laws here. I mean, that's the title of the thread and all . . .

When a burglar comes into your home, you have every right to shoot him, regardless of if he intends to shoot you or not. But it would be prudent to make sure the method you use does not kill anyone else. It would also be better that the burglar is disabled and not killed as well. Don't you think?

 

[Tousi]

Just hope he's not deaf.


If the intruder meant to harm me or my loved ones, then boo-hoo if he needs to have pellets picked out.

I think I'll just assert that shooting someone at close range (like 20 feet or less inside a house) with a shotgun of any guage, be they the 410, 20, 16, 12, 10, or even the rare 8 will do serious and lethal harm because the pellets haven't opened up yet into a large scattered pattern. At say, 10 feet, wouldn't it be like a big slug?

 

[deafskeptic]

so where did I say I want to act like a cop or assume the responsibility of cop?

Didn't you miss these posts?




FYI - I do not make a life and death decision. A criminal does. He has every power and control that would dictate my next course of action. If he causes me to shoot him, that's his fault, not mine. I did not make a decision for him, he did.

It seems to me that if you shoot at someone in your self defense, you are making a decision that will affect the person's life. He could die from your bullet. Or he could just get a grazing wound. Maybe he will have brain damage or be unable to walk as a result of your actions.

If you chose not to shoot the guy, none of that will happen and you won't face a possible police inquiry to see if you acted properly under the circumstances. You do not need to shoot at someone to defend your self.

 

[TWA]

I think I'll just assert that shooting someone at close range (like 20 feet or less inside a house) with a shotgun of any guage, be they the 410, 20, 16, 12, 10, or even the rare 8 will do serious and lethal harm because the pellets haven't opened up yet into a large scattered pattern. At say, 10 feet, wouldn't it be like a big slug?

Well, I thought Jiro was such a gun expert. He should know the answer to your question. Let's wait and see what he says. Lol.

 

[Daredevel7]

Just curious.... I have a question for anti-gun control peeps. *cough* Jiro*cough*

Let's assume that the statistics mentioned a few pages ago are correct. Having a relaxed or restrictive gun control does not increase nor decrease the area's crime rate. This would mean that the number of times that a crime was prevented because someone owned a gun is not statistically significant. Even if it DOES happen occasionally.

Now.. if you learned that there is a really high number of accidental deaths in relaxed gun control areas, would that change your mind? Would ANY number (even alarming rate) change your mind about gun control? Maybe you would prefer to pay extra in taxes for gun training, increasing gun safety, etc.

I guess I am just asking, what, if anything, specifically would ever change your mind about relaxed gun control?

I personally have a gun in my house, which I don't like, but it is my gf's. She grew up around guns and everyone in her family has at least one gun. Kids in her family (including herself) were taught gun safety at an early age. Her parents have multiple guns of different kinds.

Sounds great, right?

My gf keeps forgetting to put away the gun when we come back from road trips. She is terrified of being broken down in the middle of nowhere (I am not) and wants to bring a gun for safety. I am nervous around guns, so I am always consciously aware of where the gun is. Since she grew up around guns, she is not nervous at all, and has left a loaded gun on a coffee table for a long period of time after unpacking from the road trip.

Also, she used to keep a loaded gun in the guest bedroom (where ANYONE can easily access it) and I've asked her to move it to the master bedroom and have it unloaded. It makes more sense anyway if someone breaks in. Sometimes I think I'm the more responsible gun owner even though that's not my gun!!!!


Oh by the way... an alarm system in my house would by FAR scare away any robbers or whatever than a gun. Give me a break..... plus no one is in my house for most of the time!!!

Personally, I don't really care about gun control. I think guns are overrated.

 

[Reba]

I think I'll just assert that shooting someone at close range (like 20 feet or less inside a house) with a shotgun of any guage, be they the 410, 20, 16, 12, 10, or even the rare 8 will do serious and lethal harm because the pellets haven't opened up yet into a large scattered pattern. At say, 10 feet, wouldn't it be like a big slug?

Sounds serious enough to me.

If I were looking at the business end of any shotgun, I don't think I'd be calculating what gauge it was and how much damage it would do.

 

[jillio]

really? I mean really? this happens in news on nearly weekly basis.

around 2:00
Police Chase - YouTube

around 0:30
High speed police chase ends in crash on Mass Pike - YouTube


but you just criticized this officer for using pepper spray.


me? I'm not the one who are arresting thugs... they are. Would you prefer that they use kung-fu moves first?

This was a guy that was actively fleeing at a high speed. Of course they called for back up. :roll: Your arguments are getting weaker. Maybe you need to take a break.

 

[naisho]

I don't personally own a firearm, but my old man and other friends I know do.
This is my impression on and understanding on this: pushing for more restrictions on guns limits the choices and availability on guns that can be bought.

Understanding guns are a hobby to some Americans, and it's sorta like taking out Lamborghini, Porsche, Aston Martin, etc from a new car purchase. Now that you can't own one of those guns (or cars), yet alone probably be able to fire one in your life, would you feel like you were restricted of your freedom?

My personality, personally I wouldn't and would find another gun to get or drop interest in guns altogether. But I can totally see how the enthusiasts would be angry over higher restrictions. It's like you took out the type of ice cream flavors they can try.

So it's a two way road in the end, gun control has its pros and cons like a double edged sword.

 

[jillio]

I don't personally own a firearm, but my old man and other friends I know do.
This is my impression on and understanding on this: pushing for more restrictions on guns limits the choices and availability on guns that can be bought.

Understanding guns are a hobby to some Americans, and it's sorta like taking out Lamborghini, Porsche, Aston Martin, etc from a new car purchase. Now that you can't own one of those guns (or cars), yet alone probably be able to fire one in your life, would you feel like you were restricted of your freedom?

My personality, personally I wouldn't and would find another gun to get or drop interest in guns altogether. But I can totally see how the enthusiasts would be angry over higher restrictions. It's like you took out the type of ice cream flavors they can try.

So it's a two way road in the end, gun control has its pros and cons like a double edged sword.

The way I see it, if their disappointment at not being able to own a particular kind of weapon saves even one life...oh, well.

 

[TinCanSailor]

Joining in late with my opinion.

I have a CCW license. However, I rarely carry. I can remember only a few times when I felt the need:

Going to Walmart after 10 p.m.

Traveling to other distant towns or states because I don't know the area.

When I found Reba's Jeep on Craigslist. I traveled 100 miles with my son-in-law to an apartment complex I did not know. This was at 10 a.m. It could have been a setup.

I love to read my monthly NRA magazine. It has a full page on crime stories where the CCW holder or homeowner used a gun to stop an attack in their home, car, business, etc. Sometimes the perp or perps die or are arrested at the hospital after being patched up. Also many rapes or stabbings are prevented. I am surprised at how many 70-90 year olds take care of business! Usually, no ALWAYS, the police arrive after it is over. They cannot get there fast enough. I've even read police quotes about they are not responsible to get there on time.

 

[sallylou]

Every once in a while, Jiro becomes fixated on this subject and neglects the other threads. Dude, time to lighten up, Come out and play!

 

[Steinhauer]

Yes, Steinhauer, even in the dark, people can recognize people they know well. Give up.

Ummmm ........... yeah :roll:

Wife mistakes burglar for husband, tries to have sex | Say What?

 

[PoiToy]

Raely means that it is highly improbable. Same reason I don't have hurricane insurance; chances of me suffering damage from a hurricane in my area is improbable. Just like you needing a gun for self defense is improbable. But, the research does show, and I have posted it on here prior, that a gun in the home is several times more likely to kill a family member than it is a stranger posing a threat. And the largest proportion of accidental deaths by firearms in the home is children. Risk is much greater than the probability that you will ever be placed in a position of needing a gun to protect yourself. Just as the cost of me carrying hurricane insurance is a cost greater than the benefit,

STILL not true. It may be a common tactic, but repeating a false statement doesn't change it to a true one.