Only Polk's Bailiffs Armed

[Nancy]

From URL: http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050312/NEWS/503120363/1039

Only Polk's Bailiffs Armed

By Rebecca Mahoney
The Ledger

A shooting such as the one that happened in an Atlanta courthouse could happen in Polk County, local officials say.

Three people were killed Friday after a defendant grabbed a deputy's gun and went on a shooting spree. Authorities say Brian Nichols, 33, shot Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes and two others at the Fulton County Courthouse.

In Polk, only bailiffs are allowed to carry guns inside the county courthouse, and they are trained to prevent such incidents, said Sheriff Grady Judd.

Bailiffs keep their guns in safety holsters, which are designed to prevent anyone from easily grabbing a gun, he said.

Still, "anything's possible," Judd said.

"We certainly train to keep our bailiffs and our judges and everyone at the courthouse safe," he said. "(But) it would be impossible for anyone to say it could never ever happen."

It would be impractical for bailiffs to carry Tasers, which would stun but not kill, said Judd.

"If we had them armed only with Tasers and then someone was to come in there with a gun, then we would be showing up at a gun fight with a Taser," said Judd. "That wouldn't be wise."

Everyone who enters the Polk County Courthouse must pass through a metal detector.

Even police officers called to testify must surrender their weapons, a policy that has long been a point of contention for local law enforcement agencies.

For prosecutors and defense lawyers, such as Gil Colon Jr., who work unarmed in courtrooms every day, news of the Atlanta shooting hit home.

"It has a chilling effect," said Colon, a Bartow lawyer. "For a judge to be shot in his courtroom -- it sure changes my perspective of how to practice law in any court."

Colon began carrying a gun several years ago after a disgruntled former client threatened him.

Each time he enters the courthouse, Colon must check the gun with security guards stationed at the building's entrance. But he makes a point of being armed at other times.

After Friday's shooting, "I'll probably become even more aware than I am now," Colon said.

Polk County law enforcement officers will study the Atlanta shooting in hopes of preventing a similar incident, Judd said.

"If our training doesn't cover that particular scenario, we try to incorporate that."

Nothing like the Atlanta shooting has ever happened in Polk County, said Judd.

In 1984, Thomas Harrison Provensano walked into the

Orange County Courthouse in Orlando, armed with a shotgun, an assault rifle, a revolver and a knapsack full off ammunition.

He fired at three bailiffs, killing one and paralyzing two others.

Provensano was convicted of first-degree murder and executed by lethal injection in 2000, according to the Florida Department of Corrections.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

This is hard. But, I really think everyone involved should have been armed. Then again, why wasn't this degenerate cuffed and shackled? This moron was found trying to bring two shanks (home made knives) into court just the day before the shooting, so they were already aware that he was a security risk! So, I must ask the question... why in the world was he even given the opportunity to shoot four people, killing three of them? *smh*

 

[ravensteve1961]

No One Should Have a gun in the courtroom. All have body search. The all criminals should be in chains on the wrists and ankles just like the do in the old days in the south.

 

[Angel]

I happen to agree with Ravensteve here, I don't believe anyone should have a gun in the court room only, that is because ANYTHING could happen just like the story above happened too....

That will keep the judges, lawyers, bailiffs and the victims ( or people that may be sitting in the court room listening etc) .. safe! ...

I don't understand what is the need to have a gun in the court room, when no one else will be having a weapon with them, because they usually check to be sure no one brings a weapon into the court room...

 

[Oceanbreeze]

I know ^Angel^. I'm torn about guns in the courtroom, though. I really am. I believe, I guess, either everyone should be armed, or like you and Steve are saying, no one should be armed. Either way, that asshole should NOT have been allowed to get hold of the gun in the first damn place!

 

[Reba]

.. Then again, why wasn't this degenerate cuffed and shackled?

Thanks to the courts being so concerned about the rights of the accused, criminal defendants are not handcuffed or shackled, and they don't wear prison uniforms. The theory is that cuffs and orange jumpsuits make the defendant look "guilty" and that would influence the jury against the defendant. So now it is easier for them to escape and blend in with the public.

 

[Angel]

I know , me too Oceanbreeze ...I'm so against guns because guns just scares me, and there just some places I don't really think it would be necessary to carry one, like an example here, I just found out last year that the school allowed their security guard to carry a gun, and that totally freak me out as a parent, I was so worried about what if a child get ahold of it without the security guard looking or if he was turning the other way around where he may not be facing a child, that something that worries me the most.....I dunno, I just don't feel right as a parents that all!...It just the same feelings about carry a gun in the court room where anything could have happen just like in schools too..

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Thanks to the courts being so concerned about the rights of the accused, criminal defendants are not handcuffed or shackled, and they don't wear prison uniforms. The theory is that cuffs and orange jumpsuits make the defendant look "guilty" and that would influence the jury against the defendant. So now it is easier for them to escape and blend in with the public.

I know, Reba. Makes sense, but Lordy, this guy already proved he was dangerous when he brought in those knives! That just slipped right on by them. Then, a gun gets by these people, and he shoots four people, killing three and wounding another. Something's gotta give here.

 

[Fly Free]

it really doesnt make any difference to me -- i grew up with a dad who was a cop and later became a bailiff after his retirement from the PD and he continued to have his gun with him to work til his death

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Update on the case that this poll is taken from

Distress Call From Woman Leads to Suspect's Capture
Gunman Opened Fire in Court Killing Three; U.S. Customs Agent Found Dead Today
By RUSS BYNUM, AP

DULUTH, GA. (March 12) - A 911 call from a woman who had been held hostage for hours in her own apartment ended a daylong manhunt for a rape suspect accused of shooting a judge and two others at a courthouse and then later killing an immigration agent as he eluded authorities.

The suspect, 33-year-old Brian Nichols, set off a massive manhunt in the Atlanta area after he allegedly overpowered a court deputy Friday, took her gun and fatally shot three people, including the judge on his rape case.

During the night, Nichols approached a woman as she was entering her suburban Atlanta apartment and introduced himself as a wanted man, authorities said.

"It's my understanding that he had told her, 'If you do what I say, I won't kill you,"' Georgia Bureau of Investigation Director Vernon Keenan said.

The woman either escaped or was allowed to leave and called 911. A SWAT team gathered outside and Nichols turned himself in after watching the manhunt on television, Gwinnett County Police Chief Charles Walters said.

"He literally waved a white flag or a T-shirt and came out to our folks," Walters said.

The arrest came hours after the body of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agent David Wilhelm was discovered shot to death about 15 miles away at an upscale townhouse complex. His blue pickup truck, pistol and badge were missing.


Deadly Courthouse Shootings




FBI Spokesman Steve Lazarus said Nichols is a suspect in that shooting, and police said the truck was found at a location other than the complex where Nichols was arrested, but did not elaborate.

Nichols was taken into federal custody.

A crowd of people across the street from the apartment complex where Nichols was arrested cheered as a black sports utility vehicle drove away, escorted by multiple police cars with lights flashing and sirens on.

The killings came less than two weeks after a Chicago federal judge's husband and mother were slain in their home, setting off a fresh round of worries about the safety of judges and others involved in the criminal justice system.

The day before the shootings, the judge and prosecutors in Nichols' case requested extra security after investigators found a shank - or homemade knife - fashioned from a doorknob in each of Nichols' shoes, prosecutor Gayle Abramson said.

Officials did not say what measures were taken to beef up security, but said deputy Cynthia Hall was alone when she escorted Nichols to his retrial on rape and other charges Friday. Law requires that defendants not be handcuffed as they enter the courtroom to make sure the sight of cuffs doesn't unfairly influence the jury.

Nichols allegedly overpowered Hall, took her gun and shot her in the head. She remained in critical condition Saturday, but hospital officials said she was expected to survive.

Nichols then went to the courtroom where his case was being heard and allegedly killed the judge presiding over the case and a court reporter. As he escaped the courthouse, he fatally shot a deputy who confronted him, officials said.

Atlanta Journal-Constitution reporter Don O'Briant was getting out of his car when Nichols allegedly pulled a gun, demanded his keys and told him to get in the trunk.

O'Briant refused and started to run.

"I figured it was better to be shot at while I was running than to just stand there and be executed," O'Briant wrote in Saturday's Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

The man pistol whipped him as he tried to escape. O'Briant fell, but got up and ran again.

"I scrambled into the street, waiting for the shots to come, but they didn't come," he wrote. "I guess it just wasn't my day to die."

Throughout Friday, police said they were looking for the reporter's green Honda Accord, and highway message boards across the state issued descriptions of the vehicle. But the car was found later that night in the same parking garage where Nichols stole it.

Police said Nichols attempted more hijackings, and it was suspected that Nichols had stolen another vehicle from the same parking garage. Authorities would not comment on whether Wilhelm may have been carjacked at the garage.

Ned Cronan, 73, who lives across the street from where authorities found Wilhelm's body, said he's heard gunshots in the area before, but none Friday night or Saturday morning.

"I don't think they killed him there," he said.

Nichols faced a life sentence if convicted in his retrial. His earlier trial was declared a mistrial on Monday when jurors voted 8-4 for acquittal.

He was accused of bursting into his ex-girlfriend's home with a loaded machine gun, binding her with duct tape and sexually assaulting her over three days. Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard said Nichols brought a cooler of food in case he was hungry. Nichols claimed the pair had consensual sex.

"My guts tell me he faced a greater chance of conviction in the second trial," his attorney, Barry Hazen, told a local television station.

At the state Capitol, just down the street from the courthouse, Speaker of the House Glenn Richardson announced Nichols' arrest Saturday on the House floor as flags flew at half-staff during a rare weekend session.

"It ended the best way this could end," said Walters, the police chief. "The public can be relieved that he is off the street."


03-12-05 15:40 EST

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

 

[ravensteve1961]

Well again you can blame liberalism for this. Liberals thnk criminals should be treated with diginity while in the courtroom. In the old days of the south during segregation criminals were chained n handcuffed on wrist and wearing ankle cuffs when they enter the courtroom.So i think they should bring back to those old says of the south and Make all criminals chained n handcuffed and wearing those ankle cuffs and ignore the ACLU and liberals cause public safety is more importaint then liberalism and the criminals treated with diginity.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Well again you can blame liberalism for this. Liberals thnk criminals should be treated with diginity while in the courtroom. In the old days of the south during segregation criminals were chained n handcuffed on wrist and wearing ankle cuffs when they enter the courtroom.So i think they should bring back to those old says of the south and Make all criminals chained n handcuffed and wearing those ankle cuffs and ignore the ACLU and liberals cause public safety is more importaint then liberalism and the criminals treated with diginity.

Well, Steve. I believe in splitting the difference. I believe in the rights of the accused and presumption of innocence. Influencing a jury is never a good thing, but, I also believe that once a defendant shows he can't be trusted, he shouldn't be. In this case, he was found with shanks the previous day. Once they were confiscated, he should have not been allowed opportunity to get hold of a gun. Period.

 

[ravensteve1961]

Breeze i disagree with you. Would you trust a lion out of his cage and let the people in the zoo see how a lion should live free and roam free? My god youll have good meals for the lion. Same way with criminals once youre charged with a volent crime you lose all your rights.Youre chained from wrists to ankles.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Breeze i disagree with you. Would you trust a lion out of his cage and let the people in the zoo see how a lion should live free and roam free? My god youll have good meals for the lion. Same way with criminals once youre charged with a volent crime you lose all your rights.Youre chained from wrists to ankles.

I figured you would disagree with me, Steve. That's fine. To each his own. I don't really know what I would have done. But, I do know this. Once he brought the shanks into the court building, he proved himself mistrustworhy, and should have been shackled from that point on.

 

[ravensteve1961]

I think congress goes back into session bring up in changing courtroom rules. All suspects who are charged with a first or second degree volent crime gets brought in with a jail jumpsuit and cuffed from wrists to ankles. And no law enforcement officers with weapons of any kind. And everyone is searched like they do at the airports.But add more security like hire bouncers who work at bars to behind the criminal so that way if he gets out of line just tackle him like secuirty officers do at NFL games.

 

[Angel]

I wouldn't find that being fair because, not everyone who commit a crime is guilty unless prove otherwise, so why would this man be chain up and handcuff it no one knew he would be dangerous...

And beside I don't think we should compare the criminal to lions because lions don't kill people on purpose, they just get hungry! ..

 

[ravensteve1961]

Lions will attack you if you get near them. Remember the guy who was preaching the bible to the lions in a japan zoo? And the lions attacked him and they werent even hungry. So if youre arrested for. Murder,Rape,Armed Robbery,Assult,,Mugging or Arson you come to court in a jail jumpsuit and cuffed from wrists to ankles.

 

[Angel]

Ok, let me put it this way Ravensteve,

If a cop arrest me and charge me with umm.. lets say murder ok? and even tho I didn't murder anyone but the witness said I was the " one " that she saw, etc...I end up in court, so let's say they put the chain on my legs, and handcuff on my arms, how is this suppose to make me feel? when I did not murder anyone? It almost like my rights are taking away here...Every criminals has rights unless they prove that this criminal is dangerous, then yeah maybe they should....but everyone is innocent until prove guilty! that's just how the law works....

I dunno if I'm making any sense but at least I'm trying to show you another example here

I'm really sorry for going off the topic here!...

 

[ravensteve1961]

Well cops investigate thoughly before making an arrest. Why you think DA wont take certain criminal cases? Because the DA wants concrete proof you commited the murder than just somebodys hearsay. Nowadays they have DNA and fingerprints to prove you commited the murder. But If you did commit murder yeah you should have chain on your legs, and handcuff on your wrists.

 

[Dennis S.]

So, RavenSteve, if you get arrested today, out of the blue, charged with murder, and thrown into jail, do you want to be put on trial in an orange jumpsuit and shackles, treated like shit, and have the jury assume you're guilty? Do you? You didn't do anything, but let's treat you like crap anyway, because let's face it, you're guilty because you're in jail right now.

You can tell them you're innocent. Everyone else tells them that too. Why should they believe you? They'll investigate, but they still think you did it. They found that you were there that day, that you knew that person, and that you may have a reason to not like them. BAM.

Do you really want that to happen? Or do you want justice to give you every chance to prove your innocence?