New "MSSD/Bilingual High School" to comprise deaf, HOH, & hearing students

[posts from hell]

EXACTLY !!! Was PFH ever given Option #1 by Grendel ? NOOOOOOOO.

Yep, all goes back to twisting things out of context. How hard is that to understand. Unbelievable. It must have been the mainstream education that makes things harder for them understand.

But hey, thats ok.

 

[posts from hell]

Since he's referred to me as his character reference on this topic, I'll answer: PFH likes to claim credibility as a parent of a deaf child, occasionally discusses his child on the forum, and frequently quizzes and assails other parents on their placement decisions, but is apparently uncomfortable with being asked the same question he asks of every other parent . Don't know what's that's all about, but there you have it. He must like you. When I asked, in direct response to his own mention of his child as being culturally Deaf, he wigged out and has accused me of probing and lying ever since. Now, he follows me everywhere and glowers meanly, but never calls, doesn't leave me flowers .

This thread is about MSSD, right? Not your child? Not my child? Certainly not me, either.

 

[deafdyke]

Ok, here is my response.

Kids who are mainstreamed and not receiving "Deaf ed" services are not counted by those statistics. Those stats only reflect the kids who are being counted as deaf through those special ed departments, either because they use ASL and have an interpreter or because they are behind and have an IEP. It does not count the kids who are mainstreamed without those services because they are not categorized as deaf. They are counted as regular ed (ie hearing) when they are given the tests.

Yes, but Deafguy, a lot of the mainstreamed kids still receive special ed services. There are some kids who are minimal accomondation kids but a lot of the non deaf ed kids, still receive intense sped services/support. And actually I think it would prolly be extremely hard to say what's what, since researchers and even school districts and states may define accomondations differently.

 

[deafdyke]

Where are you getting this information? What percentage of Clarke's graduates transfer to ASL Deaf schools?

Um Deaf Guy, you're misunderstanding. I said that the oral kids who normally would have gone to Clarke/CID/St. Joseph's are now transferring to Deaf Schools. I get my info from the teachers of the Deaf on the forum....we have a connection at Texas School, Colarado School for the Deaf and Blind, Rocky Mt. Deaf School, and others. They all say they're now seeing a plethora of oral kids (not nessarily private school oral) transferring to their deaf schools/programs.

 

[deafdyke]

You know it scares me that someone actually thinks that mainstreaming into DC City Schools is a good idea for MSSD kids. Inner city schools are not a great educational option you know.

 

[Daredevel7]

Off topic, but I am curious... I went to a private hearing school for elementary, middle, and high school. Never had interpreters, notetakers, nor any other accommodation. Is it possible for anyone to use my grades/scores for statistics? Can a teacher who knows me personally flag my grades/scores as "deaf" if someone asks for data? Can anyone even ask for records in private schools?

 

[shel90]

Ok, here is my response.

Kids who are mainstreamed and not receiving "Deaf ed" services are not counted by those statistics. Those stats only reflect the kids who are being counted as deaf through those special ed departments, either because they use ASL and have an interpreter or because they are behind and have an IEP. It does not count the kids who are mainstreamed without those services because they are not categorized as deaf. They are counted as regular ed (ie hearing) when they are given the tests.

Wait a min...in my 15 plus years in the field of Deaf education, working in mainstreaming, self-contained deaf programs, and Deaf schools...alll of the deaf students had IEPs.

 

[posts from hell]

Wait a min...in my 15 plus years in the field of Deaf education, working in mainstreaming, self-contained deaf programs, and Deaf schools...alll of the deaf students had IEPs.

Hence the reason I said "I dont believe you... The reason is: Money."

However there are the parents that will say "NO! MY child is NOT DEAF! He will not need services!"

Seeing that coming from a Deaf of Deaf - I find it next to impossible to even believe. The first generation of the Deaf would have already had first hand experience then act on these needs.

Completely laughable.

 

[posts from hell]

Off topic, but I am curious... I went to a private hearing school for elementary, middle, and high school. Never had interpreters, notetakers, nor any other accommodation. Is it possible for anyone to use my grades/scores for statistics? Can a teacher who knows me personally flag my grades/scores as "deaf" if someone asks for data? Can anyone even ask for records in private schools?

^^ you fell through the cracks.

 

[shel90]

Off topic, but I am curious... I went to a private hearing school for elementary, middle, and high school. Never had interpreters, notetakers, nor any other accommodation. Is it possible for anyone to use my grades/scores for statistics? Can a teacher who knows me personally flag my grades/scores as "deaf" if someone asks for data? Can anyone even ask for records in private schools?

I went to a public school...never had any of those except for a lost soul of a teacher who hopped around in several schools as a "special-ed" teacher for only 30 mins a week.

I dunno if my scores were flagged as deaf since my "accodomations" were sooooooo minimal for someone with a severe-profound deafness like mine.

 

[deafdyke]

Hence the reason I said "I dont believe you... The reason is: Money."

However there are the parents that will say "NO! MY child is NOT DEAF! He will not need services!"

Seeing that coming from a Deaf of Deaf - I find it next to impossible to even believe. The first generation of the Deaf would have already had first hand experience then act on these needs.

Completely laughable.

And PFH, I 100% agree with you. The mainstream doesn't give a shit about educating dhh kids at ALL. The mainstream knows it can get away with giving dhh kids minimal accomondations, and then they pocket the money the dhh kids bring. Therefore, a lot of mainstreamed kids do just OK....not great, just OK. ......if the mainstream is so good, then how come dhh mainstream kids have severe social issues (and I mean that overall.....it's enough of a concern that it's a perenhical concern at the Clarke School Mainstream conference) and also have severe unemployment and other life acheivement issues and concerns?

 

[deafdyke]

I went to a public school...never had any of those except for a lost soul of a teacher who hopped around in several schools as a "special-ed" teacher for only 30 mins a week.

I dunno if my scores were flagged as deaf since my "accodomations" were sooooooo minimal for someone with a severe-profound deafness like mine.

I had a notetaker, but I got one only in high school after a long drawn out fight.....sigh they acted like they were being SO magnimous to give me that.....sigh I was one of less then 10 kids with a real disabilty in my entire school district.....and sadly most of the others were mentally handicapped. They had (and still have) NO CLUE how to teach a dhh kid.

 

[shel90]

And PFH, I 100% agree with you. The mainstream doesn't give a shit about educating dhh kids at ALL. The mainstream knows it can get away with giving dhh kids minimal accomondations, and then they pocket the money the dhh kids bring. Therefore, a lot of mainstreamed kids do just OK....not great, just OK. ......if the mainstream is so good, then how come dhh mainstream kids have severe social issues (and I mean that overall.....it's enough of a concern that it's a perenhical concern at the Clarke School Mainstream conference) and also have severe unemployment and other life acheivement issues and concerns?

You know..when I was driving to pick up my son from my in-laws after work (a 75 min drive), i was thinking about how I reconnected with my "deaf ed" teacher from high school about 10 years ago. I had brunch with her...very nice and everything. I had just graduated with my BA degree and in grad school at Gallaudet. She said that in all the 20 something years she has worked with deaf/hoh kids in the public schools, I was the only one to get a college degree. Also, she added that my best friend and I along with 3 others were the only ones to graduate from high school. At the time, I was very ignorant with the issues of Deaf ed, SEE, bilingualsim and all that so I didnt think too much about it. However, because of all these threads about this subject especially with PFH's comment about about 90% of deaf kids being mainstreamed and how the scores are still showing 4th to 5th grade reading levels, I started thinking about what she had said. Wow...I was like...

 

[Deafguy25]

Off topic, but I am curious... I went to a private hearing school for elementary, middle, and high school. Never had interpreters, notetakers, nor any other accommodation. Is it possible for anyone to use my grades/scores for statistics? Can a teacher who knows me personally flag my grades/scores as "deaf" if someone asks for data? Can anyone even ask for records in private schools?

Since you did not have an IEP and all your standardized testing was unmodified, your scores would not be considered in these statistics.

 

[Deafguy25]

Hence the reason I said "I dont believe you... The reason is: Money."

However there are the parents that will say "NO! MY child is NOT DEAF! He will not need services!"

Seeing that coming from a Deaf of Deaf - I find it next to impossible to even believe. The first generation of the Deaf would have already had first hand experience then act on these needs.

Completely laughable.

Where do I say anything like that?

The fact is that a huge number of deaf students are mainstreamed, and unless they are getting Deaf ed services, they are not counted in the statistics. I didn't say it was a good thing, I said it was happening.

 

[GrendelQ]

EXACTLY !!! Was PFH ever given Option #1 by Grendel ? NOOOOOOOO.

Take it easy now, no need to scream. The question actually wasn't comparing various deaf schools or boarding options, it was about what happens when your local deaf school underperforms to such an extreme, and if the population consists of mostly low-performing recent transferees from the mainstream as DD and PFH indicated. Is it still the preferred option for a high-performing deaf/hoh middle-schooler entering secondary school? And this is very hypothetical, I'm not suggesting PFH transfer his child from the mysterious placement -- homeschool, mainstream, oral, or deaf school -- where she is currently enrolled. I left it open-ended initially. So let's go back to that original open-ended question.

If, as PFH suggests, 80-95% of 11th grade students at MSSD can't even meet basic standards because of their questionable backgrounds -- as DD suggested, they are mostly recently transferred from the mainstream (and didn't have the benefit of Kendall all the way through -- although, Kendall's scores are comparable to MSSD's so not sure how that would improve things) -- would you send your high-performing middle schooler there? You can pick your other options. As I said before, the issue isn't whether all deaf schools are viable options -- I obviously think one is perfect for my own child -- it's about this deaf school, MSSD, or any deaf school that performs so poorly.

DD, I don't have placement figures or enrollment data to support that or not, but what you and PFH have said here and elsewhere begs a question. If, as you suggest, most Deaf schools are populated primarily by low-performing former mainstreamers or other deaf kids "dumped" at the schools whose scores fall at a rate of 80-95% below minimum passing standards, and the high-performing Deaf students and former students at Deaf primary schools and programs are being mainstreamed in far higher-performing schools, where would you place a high-performing Deaf middle schooler if your goal is a high quality, challenging education and interaction with wonderful peers and language models?

 

[shel90]

Where do I say anything like that?

The fact is that a huge number of deaf students are mainstreamed, and unless they are getting Deaf ed services, they are not counted in the statistics. I didn't say it was a good thing, I said it was happening.

and not get IEP goals? There is something wrong with that picture because under the special education umbrella, deaf children are identified along with many other students as having special needs.

I had an IEP since I was 5 years old even before the IDEA laws were passed.

 

[shel90]

Take it easy now, no need to scream. The question actually wasn't comparing various deaf schools or boarding options, it was about what happens when your local deaf school underperforms to such an extreme, and if the population consists of mostly low-performing recent transferees from the mainstream as DD and PFH indicated. Is it still the preferred option for a high-performing deaf/hoh middle-schooler entering secondary school? And this is very hypothetical, I'm not suggesting PFH transfer his child from the mysterious placement -- homeschool, mainstream, oral, or deaf school -- where she is currently enrolled. I left it open-ended initially. So let's go back to that original open-ended question.

If, as PFH suggests, 80-95% of 11th grade students at MSSD can't even meet basic standards because of their questionable backgrounds -- as DD suggested, they are mostly recently transferred from the mainstream (and didn't have the benefit of Kendall all the way through -- although, Kendall's scores are comparable to MSSD's so not sure how that would improve things) -- would you send your high-performing middle schooler there? You can pick your other options. As I said before, the issue isn't whether all deaf schools are viable options -- I obviously think one is perfect for my own child -- it's about this deaf school, MSSD, or any deaf school that performs so poorly.

PFH would NOT send his deaf child to a mainstreamed program as a small child to put that child at risks for falling behind like many deaf/hoh children were (including myself).

 

[Deafguy25]

Wait a min...in my 15 plus years in the field of Deaf education, working in mainstreaming, self-contained deaf programs, and Deaf schools...alll of the deaf students had IEPs.

Right, because you are a Teacher of the Deaf. By default all your students are receiving Deaf ed services.

Look at Daredevil, she is an example. Any deaf child in a private school would not have an IEP. The problem with Deaf ed being categorized as a section of special ed is that you have to prove that the disability (their words not mine) has an impact on their educational performance. If the child is at grade level, they would no longer qualify as special ed, and wouldn't have an IEP. They would instead qualify under the ADA and they could get a 504 plan.

 

[Deafguy25]

Thanks.

I was just asking what Deaf school the kid went to, I didn't realize it was such a big deal question.