Myths of the Vietnam War exposed

[Liebling:-)))]

Then choose your words carefully and it's always good idea to research before you say it. In your previous quote - you said:



That's a lot of red flags!

I am following the red flags, you color on.

Fact, I pointed out what I know from read Kim´s history and TV interview. I do remember she mentioned a pilot in her interview but I cannot remember the name until I found the name from websites today.

Yes, I said we should look at both sides, not one side. We already have two sides is Kim´s/John´s and Reba´s article. I can´t say anything but question about some of article, Reba citied in my first post and know Kim´s history. I can´t say anything but I have the feeling that the fact are being deny.. example is Kim and John...

Yes I asked you to read this link because we need to look both side, not one side... until we decide what we agree with the article where Reba and I posted to.

I only point Kim and question some of Reba´s article in my first post and then leave someone who know a lot from their experience with Vietnam War in real life to compare with Reba´s article.

 

[Jiro]

Response to your entire posting #38. He actually admitted that he lied. He apologized.

Proof #1 - Pastor Admits Lying About Vietnam Bombing - I'm not sure about the authenticity of that article but looks good to me.

WASHINGTON, D.C. (EP) -- One of the most famous photos from the Vietnam war shows a 9-year-old girl running down a road, screaming in pain as napalm burns away her clothing. This year that girl, Kim Phuc, was speaking at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial when she met Pastor John Plummer, who said he was the man who ordered the attack. In an emotional meeting after her speech, she forgave him.

It was a great story -- but it wasn't true. In a recent interview with the Baltimore Sun, Plummer acknowledged that he lied.

Plummer, the 50-year-old pastor of Bethany United Methodist Church in Purcellville, Virginia, originally told Phuc that he was the pilot who dropped the bomb, and in June he told Ted Koppel of "Nightline" that he had "ordered" the raid on the village of Trang Bang. In an October story for Guideposts, Plummer referred to "the attack I had called," and in a cable television documentary he said, "Every time I saw that picture I said, 'I did that. I'm responsible."

In fact, the pilot of the plane that dropped napalm on Trang Bang on Juen 8, 1972, was South Vietnamese, and Plummer's former superiors say he didn't have the authority to order attacks.

Plummer said he never meant to deceive anyone, and claimed he was simply caught up in the emotion at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial on the day Phuc spoke.

(Post date: January 12, 1998)

Proof #2 - Vietnam Napalm Girl

Proof #3 -

Read caption - That plane which dropped napalm belonged to Vietnamese Airforce (VNAF). It was dropped by South Vietnamese pilot, NOT JOHN PLUMMER

Proof #4 - Investigation and Testimony by Robert N. Timberlake: "Rebuttal to John Plummer's Responses

Trang Bang, in June of 1972, was an all-Vietnamese fight, with ARVN troops fighting their former and future countrymen, and requesting support from their own air force. American aircraft probably assisted with air support at some time during the three-day battle, but Vietnamese were fighting Vietnamese at Trang Bang, and when Kim was burned, it was they who called for help from Vietnamese flown aircraft. Even the photographer was Vietnamese, although he later became a US citizen.

The only Americans involved were two advisors, one an infantry officer with the troops at the scene of battle, and the other in an assistant coordination assignment more than 80 kilometers away. Both officers were in positions with no command authority, and absolutely no authority over Vietnamese troops or aircraft.

Myth: The American commander ordered the bombing.

Fact: There was no American commander at the scene of the fighting, no American commander involved in supporting the battle, and no American commander in the entire country who ordered that strike. It was an all-Vietnamese fight, conducted and controlled by Vietnamese.

The Methodist minister who came forward to accept Kim Phuc's forgiveness at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial on Veterans Day 1996, is a former American officer, but was NOT a commander, and had no command authority. He was a low level staff officer on the staff of the US Army advisors, in an assignment without authority even to directly coordinate actions with VNAF, much less command, order, or direct any activity.

As the battle raged, he was working in a bunker more than 80 kilometers from the fighting. His own Commanding General and the Operations Officer of the unit, both now retired General Officers, have been questioned about the event. They clarified that he had no authority, capacity, or capability to order any Vietnamese aircraft to do anything, and say it would not have been possible for him to do what he has claimed.

In fact, no one on the staff, or even the General commanding the unit, could order the VNAF to take any action whatever. The minor staff-officer-turned-preacher so publicly grasping responsibility for the air strike was involved in only a superficial manner. His participation consisted of no more than administratively releasing some sorties of VNAF aircraft back to VNAF control. This was essentially a clerical response to the VNAF command. His action included absolutely no command or control, nor did he have the authority not to release the sorties back to VNAF control, once the need had been established, and safety checks accomplished.

CW2 Ronald N. Timberlake was a VHPA member who died after his tour in Vietnam on 05/05/1999 at the age of 50 from Auto accident.
Katy, TX
Flight Class 67-501
Date of Birth 10/12/1948
Served in the U.S. Army
Served in Vietnam with 187 AHC in 68-69, H/16 CAV in 71, 4/77 ARA
Call sign in Vietnam Crusader 18


Conclusion - John Plummer was a low level staff officer on the staff of the US Army advisors. NOT A PILOT!!!

 

[Jiro]

Yes I asked you to read this link because we need to look both side, not one side... until we decide what we agree with the article where Reba and I posted to.

You looked at the wrong side... told by a liar who LIED to Kim

 

[HorseRace]

now i read all that links..



done read!

now i get it clear!
you are right jiro...

john was not pilot at all
so it was south vietnamese pilot .. but i can see that plane was from american plane! no wonder people point to american! rme! that plane was more like borrow or give to south vietnam as tool to fight..

 

[Reba]

I personally learn about Kim Phuc personally thru TV interview and media interview... I read about her history...

The fact: John Plummer admitted to the public during Vietnam War Day that it's him who dropped the bomb to burnt her and apologized to her for his involvement. Kim forgave him. I and admire John Plummer for his admit and apoligize to Kim to the public. Why have someone denied it and also him as well? Kim already said that she forgave and move on... no bitter feeling in her but scar is still in her.

You need to look both sides, not one side. Like what Jazzy said she know from her experience with many Vietnam veterans in real life to opposite the medias.

Read this link

A picture of forgiveness - napalm victim Phan Thi Phuc forgives man responsible for her injuries | Christian Century | Find Articles at BNET.com

This is from Kim Phuc's current website:

"The concept of the Kim Foundation was inspired by Kim Phuc - an innocent victim of the Vietnam War at the age of nine. On June 8, 1972, Kim's village of Trang Bang came under attack by South Vietnamese planes, which mistakenly dropped napalm on a Buddhist pagoda in an area where the North Vietnamese were infiltrating. While running for safety with other children, Kim was severely burned by the napalm."
KIM Foundation International : Healing Children of War

 

[Reba]

...First of all, I wondering to myself why they brought up "Myth and Fact" article over Vietnam War for a first time in 2008, not many years ago?

"They" are the History Channel, and I imagine that "they" are bringing it up now because that's what the History Channel does. They look at historical events with a fresh perspective.

Remember, we don't know how many vietnam veterans still survive few years later and also many years later to 2008 after vietnam war? How could they vote the poll? When they vote the poll?

Statistics about the Vietnam War - How many % per capita ?

I pick one of many sentences in article, Reba citied

If you want to know the sources of their research, go to the link that I provided, and then click on the resources at the end of the page.

Statistics aren't opinion polls. Statistics are the result of data that is collected and analyzed.

 

[Reba]

U can call our friend liar when he died from Agent orange 5 years ago. He told us a story how he got it and our government were in denied for many years to know they were sprayed over our men during the night over there. To me he is a war hero because he suffered many years and lost his battle his life to it. Yet here says about Agent Orange raised my suspsion.

I believe that people did become sick from exposure to Agent Orange but I think what the report indicates is that it wasn't as large a number as they first thought.

I know that when Hubby and I go to the VA Hospital for treatment, they repeatedly ask us if we were exposed to Agent Orange. It's a question on most of the medical forms. The VA is really trying to find and take care of anyone who might have been exposed.

It's the same procedure for post-traumatic stress; almost every form that we fill out at the VA Hospital asks if we have PST, or nightmares, or flashbacks, or depression, etc., related to our military service. They are really trying to catch up with veterans' needs. They aren't perfect but they are trying.

 

[VamPyroX]

Interesting list...

 

[CrzyMeg]

My great uncle almost serve Vietnam War, this is very interesting.

 

[VamPyroX]

There's no one in my family that was in the Vietnam War.

 

[SCBassist]

My gut feeling tells me Reba's post is more believable. This answers why, I am not convinced with another's 'just becase' point of view.

 

[Wokamuka]

There's no one in my family that was in the Vietnam War.

Stop, Forrest, stop!

 

[Foxrac]

Oh interesting article that you provided, Reba.

Liebling isn't resident of USA and she's took too many care of war, soldier, etc, however she should be proud to live in Europe and doesn't share with our culture, no offense to her.

Vietnam war is worth of history, Iraq war will be same thing in next few decade later for worth of history, when war to be done in next decade.

 

[Reba]

Hubby and I served during the Vietnam war but neither of us served in Vietnam. (We were both in the Navy.) We did serve with many Vietnam veterans and several former POWs. My senior chief mentor served in Vietnam. One of Hubby's ships' captains was a returned Vietnam POW. One of my cousins did serve in Vietnam, as did many of my high school classmates. One of our church friends suffered several injuries and left an eye in Vietnam.

The worst memories of that time were of the ways that American military people were so disrespected by their own fellow Americans.

 

[Wokamuka]

Liebling is not a citizen of the United States. By no means should we discount her contribution.

The Vietnam War was one of many post-World War II wars the erupted, especially, in Southeast Asia. These wars were fought to stem the tide of communism. In Southeast Asia, communism was manned, funded, and politically endorsed by China.

Britain was fighting in Southeast Asia - equally - alongside the United States in Vietnam. There is a common misperception among Americans that the United States was the only country fighting at the time.

While Vietnam is not the signature war for the British, the "whole picture" includes a broader scope of the "Cold War", of which Britian and other countries were part of.

It would appear that Liebling would adopt what she likes and dis-own what she does not. That is her right and that is what makes her a living human.

My point: the United States was not alone in its foriegn policy and global contributions should not be discounted based on nationalism.

 

[HorseRace]

my father were serve in vietnam..

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Liebling isn't resident of USA and she's took too many care of war, soldier, etc, however she should be proud to live in Europe and doesn't share with our culture, no offense to her.

Do you mean that the Forum is only for Americans? I thought you are open mind to share our cultures from different countries? Alex set his Forum to welcome the members from different countries. If you complaint then please report Alex or create a new thread with poll under Opinion, Feedback and suggestion sub-forum to ask ADers for their opinion either this Forum is for Americans only, not other countries.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Liebling is not a citizen of the United States. By no means should we discount her contribution.

It would appear that Liebling would adopt what she likes and dis-own what she does not. That is her right and that is what makes her a living human.

for your thoughtful post



*I will be back for further read the whole thread since my last post of yesterday.*

 

[jenni-m]

U can call our friend liar when he died from Agent orange 5 years ago. He told us a story how he got it and our government were in denied for many years to know they were sprayed over our men during the night over there. To me he is a war hero because he suffered many years and lost his battle his life to it. Yet here says about Agent Orange raised my suspsion.

I'm sorry, but if you are going to take things that way, then I cannot help you.

I never said anyone is a liar.

People can get things slightly wrong, and that is a fact.
People can intentionally twist the truth, and that is a fact.

Yes, I would be more prone to believe someone who has been there.
That does not mean you can take it as the gospel truth every time without checking validity.

I understand that people have personal feelings, but if you are going to inject personal feelings into your collection of data, then your data may become tainted. This is part of what is wrong with the world today.
It is also why propaganda works! If you let your personal feelings control what you believe, then you are potentially setting yourself up for loss.
And heaven forbid someone actually speaks out and says something controversial... oh my, we can't have that, can we.

 

[Jiro]

Do you mean that the Forum is only for Americans? I thought you are open mind to share our cultures from different countries? Alex set his Forum to welcome the members from different countries. If you complaint then please report Alex or create a new thread with poll under Opinion, Feedback and suggestion sub-forum to ask ADers for their opinion either this Forum is for Americans only, not other countries.

I'm sure that was not Pacman's intention. What he meant is that you have such a strong view for USA and has posted a lot about USA that should be doing this and that or should ban it. Although you are a German citizen, you act like you're an American and/or believe that USA should follow European's principle.