Jack Kevorkian a.k.a Dr Death has died.

[jillio]

He was already committing acts that were medically unethical, so I don't think that would be his concern.

If, as you say, he "believed he was assisting them in ending their suffering," then he must have believed that act wouldn't cause even worse suffering in an afterlife. Otherwise, he would actually be ending a temporary suffering and exchanging it for a permanent worse suffering. If he believed that, it certainly wouldn't be ethical for him to hasten someone's journey into eternal torment. If he believed that ending their earthly suffering would usher them into an eternal peace and comfort, then at least that view could be somewhat understood.

All I'm asking is, does anyone know Kevorkian's beliefs about the afterlife? Surely those beliefs would influence his actions.

His pictures don't seem to portray a positive image of an afterlife. If he stated otherwise, I would like to know.

No he wasn't. Assisted suicide does not violate medical ethics in any way, shape, or form.

Medicine is not concerned with the after life. It is concerned with this life. It is to the individual to do that which congruent with their own spiritual belief. It is not for a physician to to determine that for a patient.

Perhaps his paintings had virtually nothing to do with the concept of an afterlife. You are interpreting them based on what you believe and think; not on what Kervorkian may have believed or thought at the time he produced them. Projection is dangerous if you are looking for an accurate interpretation.

As I stated, to allow one's spiritual or religious beliefs to influence their professional decisions for any individual patient is unethical.

 

[Reba]

He went to prison because his last patient had not the ability to administer the medications to himself. He went to prison for administering the medications for the patient. Had he simply supplied the meds, and the patient had administered them with his own hand, he would not have even been charged.

However, he was still complying with his patient's request for assistance. And he put that request at a higher level than protecting himself from certain legal consequences. Would your doctor risk going to jail for you?

Or it could have been his way to force the government's hand to take action.

If he simply wanted to help a patient, why the need to video tape the procedure and broadcast it to the public? Could he not do it privately with "dignity?"

 

[jillio]

Or it could have been his way to force the government's hand to take action.

If he simply wanted to help a patient, why the need to video tape the procedure and broadcast it to the public? Could he not do it privately with "dignity?"

I doubt it. What would the purpose of that be?

He videotaped many of his procedures. There were some family members that requested it.

 

[Glenn]

He was already committing acts that were medically unethical, so I don't think that would be his concern.

If, as you say, he "believed he was assisting them in ending their suffering," then he must have believed that act wouldn't cause even worse suffering in an afterlife. Otherwise, he would actually be ending a temporary suffering and exchanging it for a permanent worse suffering. If he believed that, it certainly wouldn't be ethical for him to hasten someone's journey into eternal torment. If he believed that ending their earthly suffering would usher them into an eternal peace and comfort, then at least that view could be somewhat understood.

All I'm asking is, does anyone know Kevorkian's beliefs about the afterlife? Surely those beliefs would influence his actions.

His pictures don't seem to portray a positive image of an afterlife. If he stated otherwise, I would like to know.

Medically unethical? How so? His choices are A) Leave it alone and let the patient continue to suffer right up to the very end. And B) Help the patient die with dignity because that is what the patient wanted.

What the afterlife is like...that is your opinion, and can't be proven either way. Others might have different views on this than you. We all know what our current lives are like; that is easily proven and known. The afterlife is dependent on beliefs and isn't universally accepted.

 

[jillio]

Medically unethical? How so? His choices are A) Leave it alone and let the patient continue to suffer right up to the very end. And B) Help the patient die with dignity because that is what the patient wanted.

What the afterlife is like...that is your opinion, and can't be proven either way. Others might have different views on this than you. We all know what our current lives are like; that is easily proven and known. The afterlife is dependent on beliefs and isn't universally accepted.

**nodding** One needs to keep in mind that what is ethical and what is legal are very often in direct opposition.

 

[netrox]

Descriptions for each painting:

Summary Of Art Work | The Kevorkian Verdict | FRONTLINE | PBS

Art of Jesus being a puppet: "The annual resurrection by dumb bunnies of a pathetic, despairing, almost scorned image of the purported divinity is hardly noticeable amid the tawdry paraphernalia of irresistible paganism at its vernal orgy. It is a spectacle badly conceived, badly manipulated, and superbly desecrated by those hare-brained disciples of Mammon, who, with armfuls of brilliant multi-colored eggs and gleeful joy, framed in parade-stopping millinery, might, in a rare pseudo-pious mood briefly condescend to acknowledge some sort of disquieting mystery pervading it all. Such is the perfunctory Easter of modern western society which seems to have lost appreciation for anachronisms like rods and staffs and angels and lambs."

Art of human clawing down: "This depicts how most human beings feel about dying -- at least about their own deaths. Despite the solace of hypocritical religiosity and its seductive promise of an after-life of heavenly bliss. Most of us will do anything to thwart the inevitable victory of biological death. We contemplate and face it with great apprehension, profound fear, and terror. Sparing no financial or physical sacrifice, pleading wantonly and unashamedly, clutching any hope of salvation through medicine or prayer. How forbidding that dark abyss! How stupendous the yearning to dodge its gaping orifice. How inexorable the engulfment. Yet, below are the disintegrating hulks of those who have gone before; they have made the insensible transition and wonder what the fuss is all about. After all, how excruciating can nothingness be?"

 

[Glenn]

I assume that many have trouble understanding that, because they have not had the experience of even attempting to live the ethical existence he did.

Another way to look at this is that the path of many take will never present them with such choices. It takes an uncommon person to stick by their beliefs at such great personal risk.

 

[Reba]

...Perhaps his paintings had virtually nothing to do with the concept of an afterlife. You are interpreting them based on what you believe and think; not on what Kervorkian may have believed or thought at the time he produced them. Projection is dangerous if you are looking for an accurate interpretation.

That's why, I repeat, does anyone know what Kevorkian believed? Did he ever make any comments about his belief in death or about his art? How do people really know that he only cared about people's suffering and wasn't doing it for some perverse reason?

If Kevorkian believed and didn't care that he was sending people to an awful death, would he still be a hero?

As I stated, to allow one's spiritual or religious beliefs to influence their professional decisions for any individual patient is unethical.

Can you please quote me the code for that so I can read the exact wording?

 

[jillio]

Descriptions for each painting:

Summary Of Art Work | The Kevorkian Verdict | FRONTLINE | PBS

Art of Jesus being a puppet: "The annual resurrection by dumb bunnies of a pathetic, despairing, almost scorned image of the purported divinity is hardly noticeable amid the tawdry paraphernalia of irresistible paganism at its vernal orgy. It is a spectacle badly conceived, badly manipulated, and superbly desecrated by those hare-brained disciples of Mammon, who, with armfuls of brilliant multi-colored eggs and gleeful joy, framed in parade-stopping millinery, might, in a rare pseudo-pious mood briefly condescend to acknowledge some sort of disquieting mystery pervading it all. Such is the perfunctory Easter of modern western society which seems to have lost appreciation for anachronisms like rods and staffs and angels and lambs."

Art of human clawing down: "This depicts how most human beings feel about dying -- at least about their own deaths. Despite the solace of hypocritical religiosity and its seductive promise of an after-life of heavenly bliss. Most of us will do anything to thwart the inevitable victory of biological death. We contemplate and face it with great apprehension, profound fear, and terror. Sparing no financial or physical sacrifice, pleading wantonly and unashamedly, clutching any hope of salvation through medicine or prayer. How forbidding that dark abyss! How stupendous the yearning to dodge its gaping orifice. How inexorable the engulfment. Yet, below are the disintegrating hulks of those who have gone before; they have made the insensible transition and wonder what the fuss is all about. After all, how excruciating can nothingness be?"

Thanks for sharing those descriptions, netrox. As I suspected, some were attempting to project their own beliefs and experiences on another's art.

 

[netrox]

His pictures don't seem to portray a positive image of an afterlife. If he stated otherwise, I would like to know.

I am sure he died an atheist. After all, we're tormented by our own mortality and we find comfort if we believe that we're more than just a mere blink in the whole grand scheme of the universe.

It's human nature. It is also an important evolutionary mechanism for survival for all organisms.

 

[Reba]

Descriptions for each painting:

Summary Of Art Work | The Kevorkian Verdict | FRONTLINE | PBS

Art of Jesus being a puppet: "The annual resurrection by dumb bunnies of a pathetic, despairing, almost scorned image of the purported divinity is hardly noticeable amid the tawdry paraphernalia of irresistible paganism at its vernal orgy. It is a spectacle badly conceived, badly manipulated, and superbly desecrated by those hare-brained disciples of Mammon, who, with armfuls of brilliant multi-colored eggs and gleeful joy, framed in parade-stopping millinery, might, in a rare pseudo-pious mood briefly condescend to acknowledge some sort of disquieting mystery pervading it all. Such is the perfunctory Easter of modern western society which seems to have lost appreciation for anachronisms like rods and staffs and angels and lambs."

Art of human clawing down: "This depicts how most human beings feel about dying -- at least about their own deaths. Despite the solace of hypocritical religiosity and its seductive promise of an after-life of heavenly bliss. Most of us will do anything to thwart the inevitable victory of biological death. We contemplate and face it with great apprehension, profound fear, and terror. Sparing no financial or physical sacrifice, pleading wantonly and unashamedly, clutching any hope of salvation through medicine or prayer. How forbidding that dark abyss! How stupendous the yearning to dodge its gaping orifice. How inexorable the engulfment. Yet, below are the disintegrating hulks of those who have gone before; they have made the insensible transition and wonder what the fuss is all about. After all, how excruciating can nothingness be?"

You answered my question.

 

[jillio]

Another way to look at this is that the path of many take will never present them with such choices. It takes an uncommon person to stick by their beliefs at such great personal risk.

True, that.

 

[Reba]

Thanks for sharing those descriptions, netrox. As I suspected, some were attempting to project their own beliefs and experiences on another's art.

All art is open to interpretation--the artist's and the viewer's. There's nothing to "suspect."

 

[jillio]

I am sure he died an atheist. After all, we're tormented by our own mortality and we find comfort if we believe that we're more than just a mere blink in the whole grand scheme of the universe.

It's human nature. It is also an important evolutionary mechanism for survival for all organisms.

It absolutely is human nature, and there are also those schools of thought that believe humans have such a need to believe in the afterlife only because they lack the courage to make the changes in their mortal life that would lead to a greater degree of life satisfaction and self esteem.

 

[deafskeptic]

All art is open to interpretation--the artist's and the viewer's. There's nothing to "suspect."

It helps to see it from the artist's pov so your interpretation doesn't miss the mark.

 

[Glenn]

It absolutely is human nature, and there are also those schools of thought that believe humans have such a need to believe in the afterlife only because they lack the courage to make the changes in their mortal life that would lead to a greater degree of life satisfaction and self esteem.

Yeahhhh....I want a do-over. I ain't ready!

 

[jillio]

All art is open to interpretation--the artist's and the viewer's. There's nothing to "suspect."

That would be true of anything.
However, the message being communicated from the artist's perspective, and the message being communicated from the person doing the interpreting are two different messages. Which one is correct? The perspective that receives the message the creater intended to communicate.

People have attempted to understand the mind of Kervorkian through his artwork in this thread. In order to do that, they have to know the message he intended to communicate. Anything else speaks only to what the mind of the person interpreting the artwork consists of.

 

[Reba]

I am sure he died an atheist. After all, we're tormented by our own mortality and we find comfort if we believe that we're more than just a mere blink in the whole grand scheme of the universe.

It's human nature. It is also an important evolutionary mechanism for survival for all organisms.

According to his descriptions, he certainly had a pessimistic view of life and humanity. Very sad.

 

[jillio]

Yeahhhh....I want a do-over. I ain't ready!

It is not too late! You do have the power to create your future...just not the power to change the past or to create anyone else's future for them.

But then, I am more than certain that you already understand that and make decisions accordingly.:P

 

[Reba]

That would be true of anything.
However, the message being communicated from the artist's perspective, and the message being communicated from the person doing the interpreting are two different messages. Which one is correct? The perspective that receives the message the creater intended to communicate.

People have attempted to understand the mind of Kervorkian through his artwork in this thread. In order to do that, they have to know the message he intended to communicate. Anything else speaks only to what the mind of the person interpreting the artwork consists of.

That's why I asked, what did he say about his pictures?