Is it really so bad to know SEE (Sign Exact English?)

Well, damn. I should have read the stuff on here before exposing myself and my language background.
But seriously people, I think we can all agree that using whatever combination of approaches is best for the individual deaf and hard of hearing child to allow them to learn is the bet approach. Some kids are great auditory learners despite profound deafness.msome kids with mild or moderate hearin loss are terrible at learning through an auditory approach.
What matters is the kids and whether we are helping them achieve their potential.

What really doesn't matter is all the shit we had to wade through as kids because "professionals" thought it was best for us.
Just because sign was best for me doesn't mean I want ALL children to sign all the time.
If they want to, that is cool.

GrendelQ had a good point about the literacy level of prelingually deaf children. It is true that English reading and writing ability among prelingually deaf students is much lower than hearing students. I personally think that has a lot to do with low expectations of Deaf students. If teachers of the Deaf expect students to be fluent in ASL and written English, maybe there wouldn't be such a big gap in reading and writing.
Kids live up to expectations. Life is harder for deaf kids. We have to work harder at everything. That doesn't mean we should meet the minimum standards and stop.
Fuck that.

I know there are many problems in education of deaf people but how many of us are out there mentoring young deaf students, pushing them to out score their hearing peers?

I became deaf postlingually but learned sign starting when I was 4. I had hearing loss for a decade or more before becoming profoundly deaf. I still think of ASL and SEE/PSE as the foundation of language for me. I am thankful for the years of being exposed to SEE simultaneously with spoken English just as I am thankful that outside the classroom we had ASL or spoken English.
 
No one used SEE with me all my life. If I ever see one, it turns me off and I will walk away.
 
NaLa said:
I'm hearing, and I first was introduced to sign language when I was in middle school, when I saw the alphabet in the back of one of my text books. I'm now 22, and because of the way I learned sign language, words at a time, without any real knowledge of ASL grammar, I've become to comfortable signing the way I speak spoken English. I know its not ASL, but I want to know, is it really that bad to know SEE? I mean there are plenty of hearing people who can't sign anything. I just think I shouldn't get bashed all the time for signing the way I speak spoken English. I don't sit there and sign "to" and spell out "is" like some other hearing people who SEE, but can I get a little credit at least for trying. Or is it, the ASL way or the highway??
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well - it's like this...

"Is it really so bad to know Spanglish to learn Spanish language?"
 
Jiro said:
well - it's like this...

"Is it really so bad to know Spanglish to learn Spanish language?"
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If the OP was talking about PSE, that would be a perfect comparison.

Edit to add: That is the reason why it's inappropriate to use PSE with a child who is still developing their language skills. A complete language should be used.
 
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ecp said:
I know it isn't popular but I first learned to sign through the total communication approach that my kindergarten and elementary school used.
For me, with useable hearing for many years, it worked out very well. I was able to fill in the missing words while keeping up (mostly) with the teacher.
It won't work for everybody. When we weren't in class we used ASL. But in class the interpreters used SEE or something very close to it (they signed "is" "was" "the" etc and used spoken English word order.)
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I have met many members of the Deaf community who had a similar experience growing up in their early years with SEE and TC. They all spoke positively about it. One woman recently told me that she felt this upbringing prepared her well in terms of communication, speech reading, oral skills, and literacy. Most of them transitioned to ASL as they got older with no problem.

The use of SEE/English does not need to preclude the use of ASL.
 
Went to a Deaf/HOH Festival today with my clients. Over 500 Deaf/HOH/Hearing people today and not once I saw SEE being used. I did see some oralism, PSE, ASL.

No SEE nor Cued Speech.

Like I always say..SEE and CS are good for teaching tools.
 
shel90 said:
Went to a Deaf/HOH Festival today with my clients. Over 500 Deaf/HOH/Hearing people today and not once I saw SEE being used. I did see some oralism, PSE, ASL.

No SEE nor Cued Speech.

Like I always say..SEE and CS are good for teaching tools.
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True. i haven't seen SEE or Cued Speech any where excpet school but that was years ago.
 
I grew up using SEE as well, which I think helped immensely with my English. However I started using PSE in college when I met a few deaf students and some interpreters who primarily used ASL, and they eventually just rubbed off on me. It took me a while before I understood them most of the time though. Even today I still do not understand full blown ASL.

I don't see anything wrong with you continuing to use PSE if you just want to befriend some deaf people. Although if you were feeling a bit more ambitious and wanted to become an interpreter or something like that, it'd be better to learn ASL so you can adapt different methods of communication depending on the situation. But other than that... if someone was really picky about using ASL over SEE or PSE, I personally wouldn't want to be friends with him/her. I'd rather be friends with whoever can understand and accept each other instead.

And to be honest, if I met someone like you in a public place, I'd be more grateful about the fact that you actually know signs and that I could sign with you in the first place - regardless of whether it's SEE, PSE, or ASL.
 
Irish said:
I grew up using SEE as well, which I think helped immensely with my English. However I started using PSE in college when I met a few deaf students and some interpreters who primarily used ASL, and they eventually just rubbed off on me. It took me a while before I understood them most of the time though. Even today I still do not understand full blown ASL.

I don't see anything wrong with you continuing to use PSE if you just want to befriend some deaf people. Although if you were feeling a bit more ambitious and wanted to become an interpreter or something like that, it'd be better to learn ASL so you can adapt different methods of communication depending on the situation. But other than that... if someone was really picky about using ASL over SEE or PSE, I personally wouldn't want to be friends with him/her. I'd rather be friends with whoever can understand and accept each other instead.

And to be honest, if I met someone like you in a public place, I'd be more grateful about the fact that you actually know signs and that I could sign with you in the first place - regardless of whether it's SEE, PSE, or ASL.
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PSE is okay so I think nobody complains about it. I use PSE only when I talk to a hearing person via an interpreter which is normal for some deaf people like me who don't have time to sign "the", "ing", etc. I would easily lose patience when a person talks to me via SEE for 30 min or longer. I am sure many other ASLers feel the same way. If you surf DVTV, you may notice that no one uses SEE in any vlog. Why is that so?
 
Wirelessly posted

If someone came up to you and said Algebra was the new English, because its a good 'teaching tool', would that be acceptable? I think not, so why is it so hard for people to understand that SEE is not acceptable in the same manner?
 
CrazyPaul said:
PSE is okay so I think nobody complains about it. I use PSE only when I talk to a hearing person via an interpreter which is normal for some deaf people like me who don't have time to sign "the", "ing", etc. I would easily lose patience when a person talks to me via SEE for 30 min or longer. I am sure many other ASLers feel the same way. If you surf DVTV, you may notice that no one uses SEE in any vlog. Why is that so?
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The difference is a grown individual using PSE who has already developed a strong first language versus a young child who is still developing language. The point is that they need access to a complete language, not an incomplete language such as PSE or "Spanglish" as referenced earlier in this thread.

It is entirely situational whether ASL, PSE, SEE, (etc. etc.) is used in any given situation with any individual person (or child).
 
BecLak said:
Wirelessly posted

If someone came up to you and said Algebra was the new English, because its a good 'teaching tool', would that be acceptable? I think not, so why is it so hard for people to understand that SEE is not acceptable in the same manner?
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:confused: I don't quite understand your analogy... :confused:
 
BecLak said:
Wirelessly posted

If someone came up to you and said Algebra was the new English, because its a good 'teaching tool', would that be acceptable? I think not, so why is it so hard for people to understand that SEE is not acceptable in the same manner?
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possibles misunderstand to SEE rough. confused.. It is very complication confused Yes. Hard of understand see. It is very complication!. It no express on English.. person eyebrow express nothing!, Odd. without ASL is very express control have really manner interesting. interesting different!
 
I've been looking back into sign as I have a hearing friend who has been asking me about it. In doing so, I have also looked into SEE-II. I was never taught SEE-II in school.

According to Wikipedia, "The debate is whether SEE-II benefits children enough to justify its teaching in place of ASL which is only used by 6% of children today. Proponents of SEE-II demonstrate through research that the system is useful in helping children learn to listen, speak, understand and use English as well as read and write English as do their same-age peers".

Clearly, today there must be more SEE-II users than ASL users if ASL is only used 6% of the time. Because of this, I'd be interested to see if the writing skills have improved with those numbers.

Also, I'd like to know whether those users have formed groups of their own or whether they have switched to ASL later in life(and why). Perhaps, like any other tool, because the goal of SEE is to learn English one has no further need for the tool once that goal is complete. Still, it would seem more likely that users would fall back on it amongst themselves instead of learning a new language. Unless, the jump from SEE to ASL isn't too difficult which could be the reason more ASL is used by adults(if that is the case).
 
As an example, you speak...
I want an Apple, BUT...
in ASL you sign....
Apple, I want.

The Object is first, so we know what you are refering to.... It is a lot different than english, but follow Yoda from Star wars. ASL it is, after all !
 
The 6% by children. That number's far higher, especially as an adult. Never would I use SEE today.
 
I figured out the ASL teacher we had really taught in SEE although she did explain ASL and the Grammar, so we started out SEE and still trying to figure it all out for ASL... its fairly simple, just a little difficult since we are used to the common english language and its grammar.
 
Jane B. said:
How about also saying WHY?
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you should already know that SEE is just simply awful and tedious. I don't really enjoy conversing with a person signing in SEE. It's exactly like listening to a person talking in extremely verbose English when it can be simply conveyed quickly with right slangs and conversational style.
 
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