I was actually denied an interpreter at a hospital

Grummer, this was in NO way a personal assault to you or your intelligence, it was merely an analogy to the statement that "doctors are greedy". Please accept my apologies if this reference offended you, it was not my intent. I was merely pointing out the dangers of generalizing a stereotype to an entire population, be it doctors, lawyers, or the Deaf.

I have been gone all weekend and just now catching up on these posts... I think it was my original statement that sparked this whole debate--

Deafdoc, I'm sorry if my statement caused you to feel like I was stating all docs were greedy...

However, I will stand by my observation that the entire healthcare system has changed the way patients are treated. I work in it daily (collecting revenue from Medicare- so I'm aware of reimbursement rates and I have worked in the clinical side in the past) there has been a shift in attitude over the past 20+ years that I've been in the medical field... and I mean the entire SYSTEM, not just doctors... it goes way beyond them-- it's administration, finance, research, drug companies, insurance companies, support staff etc...they have changed their practices and not always for the best.

When physicians are paid like factory workers, based on 'production' by a corporate management system-- it makes a HUGE difference in the care the patients receive. It then becomes QUANTITY over QUALITY of care. I have seen it personally as an employee (and a patient). Sadly this is becoming more common in our region.

And I do believe that mis-use of the system has indeed lead to the rise in cost... especially in areas where there is a large population of indigent patients and patients with no health coverage- or minimal coverage. The cost is passed on to everyone... it does go back in part to management of resources-- just an example-- EMS is called out for a 'chronically publicly intoxicated homeless person' and the patient is taken the the ED just to 'dry out'-- when they have NO medical issues, (aside from their alcoholism which can't be cured in the ED) and could have 'slept it off' in jail or a shelter instead. This was common practice in the ED I worked in years ago, part of an outdated protocol-- but, who pays for that visit, for the ambulance ride, for the doctors time, the paramedics, the nurses?? The community that facility serves~ in an increase in their all over healthcare costs.

As for a terp-- regardless of the cost- the terps are there to help protect the physicians and the patients. (It doesn't matter if it's an ASL terp, Spanish, Japanese, etc) If infact JennyB was denied a terp for the simple fact she could read and write-- that was blatently WRONG and should be addressed appropriately.

I don't want you to think I meant 'all doctors' are greedy-- I know plenty that aren't and who are in medicine because they truely have a heart for it~~ but I know nearly as many that their brains are there and they have the diagnositic knowledge, but their hearts, not so sure about where they are--judging by the way the treat their patients (as humans-not medically treat them). Maybe it has to do w/the shift in attitude of younger generations- who knows~~ all I do know is I've seen a change in the level of compassion shown to patients.
 
On the contrary, I believe the physicians have demonstrated much more cost effectiveness in their practices, in terms of using accountability and evidence-based medicine to guide best practices. Years ago, a hospital could charge $10 for a Tylenol tablet, with the excess monies covering less well re-imbursed (or indigent) care. Now the vast majority of indigent care is funded by the entire population through the CMS (Centers for Medicare and Medicaid). As a result of this increased cost awareness, physicians do have to be more attentive to the bottom line. With that comes the need for greater efficiency. I feel it in my own practice. This is not a greed-driven issue. The end result is that we as physicians no longer have the luxury of sitting with patients for an hour to discuss multiple medical and social issues. We are tightly scheduled and this efficiency feels less personal, less touchy-feely than what our parents knew from their physicians. In fact one of the qualities taught in medical school is to remain objective. The more emotionally involved one is with their patients, the less objective they are in making proper medical decisions or recommendations.

The entire face of healthcare is changing. In 1900 it took 20 years to double the world's knowledge. Currently it doubles every 18 months. That is a tremendous amount of information to assimilate and apply to healthcare. And with that comes the cost of research, much of which is funded by healthcare dollars. Do abuses exist? Of course, and they always will. However, comparing the healthcare provision now to even 25 years ago is impossible.

There is an economic reality to medical practice. Especially in the US where obesity, smoking, and heart disease are epidemic, the number of patients needing specialized care continues to grow. And people are demanding tests, treatments, and opinions which may have no scientific basis. For example, how many of you go to your physician demanding antibiotics for viral illnesses (colds, sinus problems, etc)? Scientific investigation tells us that the common cold will resolve in 7 days, but if you take antibiotics it will get better in just a week! And the overuse of antibiotics, be it doctor or patient driven, has led to the appearance of super-bugs like MRSA. But many physicians relent to the pressure from patients because it takes 2 minutes to write a Rx but 20 minutes to explain the rationale for not treating. I'm not pointing fingers, but you know who you are.

Thus, much of the overspending on healthcare dollars is not solely physician or hospital driven. I believe we take better care of patients now than at any other time in history.

And with respect to JennyB and this thread, it seems we are unanimous in our belief that refusing to provide an interpreter is unconscionable.
 
On the contrary, I believe the physicians have demonstrated much more cost effectiveness in their practices, in terms of using accountability and evidence-based medicine to guide best practices. Years ago, a hospital could charge $10 for a Tylenol tablet, with the excess monies covering less well re-imbursed (or indigent) care. Now the vast majority of indigent care is funded by the entire population through the CMS (Centers for Medicare and Medicaid). As a result of this increased cost awareness, physicians do have to be more attentive to the bottom line. With that comes the need for greater efficiency. I feel it in my own practice. This is not a greed-driven issue. The end result is that we as physicians no longer have the luxury of sitting with patients for an hour to discuss multiple medical and social issues. We are tightly scheduled and this efficiency feels less personal, less touchy-feely than what our parents knew from their physicians. In fact one of the qualities taught in medical school is to remain objective. The more emotionally involved one is with their patients, the less objective they are in making proper medical decisions or recommendations.

The entire face of healthcare is changing. In 1900 it took 20 years to double the world's knowledge. Currently it doubles every 18 months. That is a tremendous amount of information to assimilate and apply to healthcare. And with that comes the cost of research, much of which is funded by healthcare dollars. Do abuses exist? Of course, and they always will. However, comparing the healthcare provision now to even 25 years ago is impossible.

There is an economic reality to medical practice. Especially in the US where obesity, smoking, and heart disease are epidemic, the number of patients needing specialized care continues to grow. And people are demanding tests, treatments, and opinions which may have no scientific basis. For example, how many of you go to your physician demanding antibiotics for viral illnesses (colds, sinus problems, etc)? Scientific investigation tells us that the common cold will resolve in 7 days, but if you take antibiotics it will get better in just a week! And the overuse of antibiotics, be it doctor or patient driven, has led to the appearance of super-bugs like MRSA. But many physicians relent to the pressure from patients because it takes 2 minutes to write a Rx but 20 minutes to explain the rationale for not treating. I'm not pointing fingers, but you know who you are.

Thus, much of the overspending on healthcare dollars is not solely physician or hospital driven. I believe we take better care of patients now than at any other time in history.

And with respect to JennyB and this thread, it seems we are unanimous in our belief that refusing to provide an interpreter is unconscionable.

its a nice post,i especially liked your writing of the historical and knowledge aspects - fascinating- however, there are a few things I still beg to differ 'about greed-driven" factor. Yes, it may not be every doctors but perhaps a few "chosen ones" being promised of lavish promotions such as heading the surgery units, or become HODs of certain departments, this gets tied in 'sponsoring' from large drug companies (they're the greedy ones). You mentioned As a result of this increased cost awareness, physicians do have to be more attentive to the bottom line. well, that is true, however this is the very thing we're talking about, its not just the doctors (looking like stand-offish and getting paid or rather they were forced to, (as you said). I agree there, but i dont agree its not really called for a defense to doctors, this thread did'nt really have this in the crux, alongside with everything else you said wonderfully (no sarcaism intended) about many factors, your examples of how knowledge boom is outstripping our ability to keep up with which is true, and is astonishing at the least, I believe it.
The real crux is this wholeness, the whole combination of the entirety of the health sector in society, reluntectly to repeat with adammomma words- "it's administration, finance, research, drug companies, insurance companies, support staff etc...they have changed their practices and not always for the best. <(adamsmomma's, save from repeating)
It is understandable which you have explained that even in Med school teaches you about objectiveness, linking work ethics to moral ethics still seem to outweighted by economic rationales. So right there i digress to say this what happens is - they are reinforcing in med school; "dont ask question why, but time is precious, time costs hospital, we are expected to be experts to draw up decisions quickly as possible since medical treatment are expensive so time consideration comes first - this yeild an implication which decree time is money, so - it should be carefully administered" and of course they would!, after all they want to make sure doctors knows where's the cut-off point, again i dont imagine every doctor/students - doctors would agree but nonetheless they have to. Probably in similar ways that the police officers might know the person commited a crime is a victim of circumstances but nonetheless they have to arrest even as much they dont want to. So with this in view, it is not difficult to understand this dilemma must pound down alot of weight and probably also despair. Afterall many join police force in intend to help people but get let down by the system, irregularities and extraordinary circumstances. Taking better care of paitents now better than ever is debatable. Its just llike politics, you cant please everyone, and given what you say about the hasten pace of learning against the exponential of knowledge bases expansion, it is difficult to apply all of which into every medical cases approach but while the bottom line is becoming increasingly a priority (economic), the objective to provide treatment tend to digress away - that is worrisome. This thread highlights not only the rights being violated but also the pressure of quick decisions, maintaining the 'orders' of their departments (as along with lack of appreciation that d/Deaf people do have a real reliance on interpreters for clarity of their medical situations. What is concerns me is that the climate that stress accountability which imply the question of who to pay for interpreters becomes a nuisence that prolongs this 'ignorance issue'. So, in this day of where awareness of d/Deaf people having demand to use interpreters is raising in the public's attention is one thing, however its seems to fall behind in getting attention of the adminstrators of such institutes (ie. hospitals) to allow this quick connection to bring interpreter to be available immediately or soon as, just as so they do with (community) police officers or social workers as extraneous workers in hospitals. With this mentality of 'hospital doesnt pay for this' being over emphasised, it clouds this judgement and hence this bad decision were made. With younger generations, hmmmm i dunno, i think at this rate of hastened learning and dumbed down medias i think its going to continue to get worse, people know more but understands less. This is where it is heading, the maps of schemes representing knowledge have become more complex and harder to read so alot of 'different' things /situation quickly become irrelevent so its not surprising ignorance is making a comeback.
 
... I don't know if I want to read these huge posts going on between Grummer and DeafDoc1. Perhaps a little too dense for my tiny brain and limited attention span! All I do know is that in ontario, where the OP lives, there is no Medicare or whatever crapola, and healthcare is paid for by the government. Does what's being discussed apply to canada or has this thread gone a tad off topic? no, I'm actually ASKING. i see your posts and i'm lost. (or did I just open a new door for a lengthy discussion on the greediness of government-employed canadian doctors...?)
 
canada is very progressive, fast changing, it will end up like america if they dont watch it
 
Jenny,

Next time I suggest you to directly contact OIS Emergency After Hours by e-mail with your pager and their email address is OIS@answerplus.ca.

Their website is: After-Hours Emergency Service-The Canadian Hearing Society if you want to get more information about their service in case.

Be forewarned, sometimes they respond so slowly and occasionally they do provide a poor service.

On another note, the sad thing is some hospitals in Canada have kept ignoring the 1997 Supreme Court of Canada ruling on Sue Eldridge case. Here's a link about this ruling: Supreme Court of Canada - Decisions - Eldridge v. British Columbia (Attorney General)

We did phone OIS directly and the interpreter on-call was not actually available that day.

OIS has bad services, there have been many times when they tell me they can't find a freelancer after two weeks of searching and then I contact (OIS registered) interpreters myself and get a freelancer in 5 minutes. OIS sucks.

I am well aware of the Eldridge Decision.
 
So how's your back? The part I find most bizarre about this story is that everyone is screaming at each other about an interpreter, instead of treating the patient. I mean this was an emergency room!!! Unfortunately, my experience with hearing people regarding the deaf or HOH is that they have a tendency to be morons. Why didn't you just use your friend to interpret?
 
Wow, people are STUPID.
Good thing you got a lawyer. Seriously.
People like that don't deserve to work with people.
 
So how's your back? The part I find most bizarre about this story is that everyone is screaming at each other about an interpreter, instead of treating the patient. I mean this was an emergency room!!! Unfortunately, my experience with hearing people regarding the deaf or HOH is that they have a tendency to be morons. Why didn't you just use your friend to interpret?
I wonderd the same thing. Why not just use your friend. I think there is a bit of posturing going on but half of me says that's ok. If someone is entitled to something they shoud get it.
 
So how's your back? The part I find most bizarre about this story is that everyone is screaming at each other about an interpreter, instead of treating the patient. I mean this was an emergency room!!! Unfortunately, my experience with hearing people regarding the deaf or HOH is that they have a tendency to be morons. Why didn't you just use your friend to interpret?

Sorry, I haven't been around much lately!

My back turned out to be okay. Soft-tissue damage - not fun or pleasant but not broken.

I didn't use my friend because she doesn't know the medical terminology and she isn't an interpreter. If it was like a store check out then I would have asked her to interpret if need be...but in a hospital - nope.
 
I wonderd the same thing. Why not just use your friend. I think there is a bit of posturing going on but half of me says that's ok. If someone is entitled to something they shoud get it.

I have a A LOT of health problems and I don't feel comfortable with that, and neither did she.
 
Risk Manager

Each major hospital has a Risk Manager. They are the people to make sure the staff follows the ADA and do whatever they can to keep the hospital from getting sued. I would contact the Risk Manager and tell that person about the incident. They will educate the staff on the procedures for contacting interpreters. This worked everytime I had a problem with the hospitals.
 
People who write long posts,please use PARAGRAPHS..they are your FRIEND here.Its unbelieveable the amount of posting that can go without spacing .
:lol:

That being said,can doctors that hire an interpreter just add that expense for tax write offs?If they can,they will recoup the loss and no harm done to their paychecks.
:hmm:
 
That reallt sucks. These nurses were crappy. If you country offers that service you should be able to use it without all that fuss. It's your right!
I don't know ASL (or the spanish version). And I don't know if here in Spain we have that service, but when I go to the hospital my mom has to accompany me always because the doctors just start speaking really fast or not loud enough and the don't care if you understand them or not. Sometimes they discuss things about ME, with me there and being staring like I am stupid or something.
 
Just an update...

after a few meetings with the hospital and something bad happening as a result of me not having an interpreter at that hospital, they are starting an education initiative and things are improving!
 
Just an update...

after a few meetings with the hospital and something bad happening as a result of me not having an interpreter at that hospital, they are starting an education initiative and things are improving!
Congratulations to you for your efforts!
 
Just an update...

after a few meetings with the hospital and something bad happening as a result of me not having an interpreter at that hospital, they are starting an education initiative and things are improving!

That's good news, but I'm sorry it had to take something bad happening to you before they made changes...
 
contacting local news agency's can go alot further then lawyers at times
 
Family Doctor Nightmare (Part !)

I have only been to see my current family doctor about 3 or 4 times. I have NEVER had a terp. From the very first, I stated that I had a hearing problem, used hearing aids, had many other conditions, etc. It has been a NIGHTMARE, because I have asthma. And sometimes, if I get an attack, I cannot speak; or sometimes my autism seems to limit my ability to produce speech as well. I will just SHUT DOWN. Even WITH my hearing aids, I CANNOT hear with background noise, faint speech, high voices, rapid speech, etc. My latest nightmare with the place is that they made a referral to a specialist WITHOUT my informed, clear consent. That place attempted to contact me by voice phone, which I found rather weird. My dad helped me figure out what the message said. (Lady talking very fast.) What I want to know is WHAT RIGHT did this place have to give out my private number to a specialist I had not even said I wanted to see? And WHY would they attempt to contact me voice?:eek3:
 
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