How to Decide on Cochlear Implant Surgery for Children

[Frisky Feline]

I guess deaf children dont have a say when it comes to having rights to equal access to language, communication and education like hearing children do.


Hearing children are very very lucky that they will never be placed in restrictive environments like many deaf children are in now.

yeah.

 

[GrendelQ]

I think all children -- hearing and deaf, prek through secondary -- face barriers to getting the best possible education that fits the way they learn. Most hearing children don't have choices or a say in how they will learn and many are stuffed into a learning model that doesn't reach them.

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In some ways, I think my daughter is lucky and has more choices and learning opportunities available to her than if she were not deaf. Other children may have barriers to learning in a typical school setting that aren't so 'visible' as deafness and are never addressed, much less driving everything about her education, from school and environment to language to teaching methodologies.

 

[A]

I guess deaf children dont have a say when it comes to having rights to equal access to language, communication and education like hearing children do.


Hearing children are very very lucky that they will never be placed in restrictive environments like many deaf children are in now.

Hearing people already have a goal for hearing children in a education system. They know what these kids need to learn in order to function in the real world. Some are even adding Spanish to their system, without the parent's permission, because they think the kids need it for the real world. They share a common goal because they have the same hearing prospective. You don't see people get so divided over it.... except religion. BUT when come to deaf people getting together to work what works for deaf kids from deaf prospective, hearing people don't like that. They don't like the idea of teaching ASL language to the deaf kids when we think they need it for the real world. I understand that we should not make the whole school in ASL like making whole public school in Spanish (textbooks in Spanish, teachers speak spanish, etc). There are schools like that that exist, though. Anyway, I don't understand the idea of withholding ASL from deaf kids. I don't know why it is a problem to teach it to them. Give them the knowledge!

 

[WeeBeastie]

I guess deaf children dont have a say when it comes to having rights to equal access to language, communication and education like hearing children do.


Hearing children are very very lucky that they will never be placed in restrictive environments like many deaf children are in now.

Please clarify - You are saying that equal access means ASL and SPOKEN language. If this is the case, I disagree.

What about deaf kids who can't hear speech, even aided to the max? Those who have no receptive access to spoken language? To force use of a method they are physically unable to access is rather cruel.

YES, I agree with equal access to language, both ASL and English, but speech is not included in that. Language does not equal speech. Communication does not equal speech.

Hearing/typically abled children do NOT have the equal right to language you assume they do. They get what the curriculum gives them and nothing more. They have no choices, regardless of their personal needs. Many, if not most, children would greatly benefit from sign in the classroom, but because they don't "need" it, they won't get it. Sometimes even if they do need it, they still don't get it because they don't need it bad enough.

 

[A]

When I think of English, I think of both spoken and written. So I am not sure if Shel talking about just written english or forcing deaf to use spoken English. I think she thinking of whatever works for them (that is, if deaf people want to know spoken English, then so be it) but they definitely need to learn written English because they need it for reading and writing.

 

[A]

Many, if not most, children would greatly benefit from sign in the classroom, but because they don't "need" it, they won't get it. Sometimes even if they do need it, they still don't get it because they don't need it bad enough

I can say the same thing about written English. Some people don't get it. I think they will use ASL.. like in sports and such. They will be very thankful that they know it. If one really can't learn it (like missing an arm or something like that), then they can opt out from it.

 

[flip]

Please clarify - You are saying that equal access means ASL and SPOKEN language. If this is the case, I disagree.

What about deaf kids who can't hear speech, even aided to the max? Those who have no receptive access to spoken language? To force use of a method they are physically unable to access is rather cruel.

YES, I agree with equal access to language, both ASL and English, but speech is not included in that. Language does not equal speech. Communication does not equal speech.

Hearing/typically abled children do NOT have the equal right to language you assume they do. They get what the curriculum gives them and nothing more. They have no choices, regardless of their personal needs. Many, if not most, children would greatly benefit from sign in the classroom, but because they don't "need" it, they won't get it. Sometimes even if they do need it, they still don't get it because they don't need it bad enough.

I see a lot of misunderstanding here. First I was accused of going against bi-bi, now Shel90 is accused of saying that speech equals communication.

So far, I have noticed that I agree with GrendelQ and WeeBeastie, and no one here is that crazy we don't notice that every child is different.

I will from now on read posts from every parents careful, to make sure faire_jour don't trick me into stupid flamewars that don't help anyone.

 

[flip]

Must sign ASL and then learn English as your second language. There would be no other options.

You are really trying to bulid a brigde between the deaf community and parents here, huh?

 

[faire_jour]

I see a lot of misunderstanding here. First I was accused of going against bi-bi, now Shel90 is accused of saying that speech equals communication.

So far, I have noticed that I agree with GrendelQ and WeeBeastie, and no one here is that crazy we don't notice that every child is different.

I will from now on read posts from every parents careful, to make sure faire_jour don't trick me into stupid flamewars that don't help anyone.

I agree with Grendel 100%. I haven't mislead or tricked anyone.

 

[jillio]

Then why in another thread was she called "obsessed with speech" and she and I have both been "oralists"?

Because, while you claim to be a proponent for the bi-bi approach to education, thereby reducing the risk of the deaf child being exposed to well known and documented risks, you continue to make the choice to place your daughter in a program where the language of instruction is spoken English. The negative effects on a child's academic prerformance in an environment where spoken English is the language of instruction have been well documented as well. In short, you say one thing, but do another.

Of course, that is your choice to make. No one ever said it wasn't. But, having made that choice, you also much accept all that comes with it. One of the consequences is that you vocalize for one philosophy, but, in practice, subscribe to another. You are incongruent, and it gets noticed and commented on. Another consequence that results from your choice. Freedom to choice carries with it consequences. Want to choose? Accept the consequences of acting on that right.

 

[jillio]

Wow! Must be soooo nice!!! I would give my right arm and leg to enroll my son in a Bibi program at the local deaf schools but the state wont allow it. Lucky!!!

Some of the charter schools are doing it now. Allows hearing and deaf sibs to attend the same school. I think it it a great move forward!

 

[jillio]

I am talking about hearing kids of hearing parents.

Fact of the matter is, you cannot prevent a deaf child from being exposed to spoken language. It is all around them on a daily basis, and if they have hearing parents, even more so. To say that a deaf child is not exposed to spoken language just because they attend a bi-bi school is absolutely absurd.

 

[jillio]

Nope, it's voice off all day. They aren't allowed to speak inside the school.

Aren't allowed to speak, or use ASL as the language of instruction and the primary form of communication between staff, teachers, and students?

What happens if someone speaks? Are they thown out of school, or given dentention?

Those two situations are very different things. Stating that someone is "not allowed to speak" is an exaggeration that gives parents who are trying to learn about options a message that is untrue.

 

[jillio]

No, I'm talking about bilingualism, just ASL and written English, no speech or spoken language at all.

In my experience it isn't rare at all. At my daughter's bi-bi school it was 70% Deaf of Deaf. In her kindergarten class, and the two preschool classes and the grade above her, there were 12 Deaf of Deaf kids. Between them all, there was 1 hearing aid and no speech therapy for any of the kids.

That's fine, that's their choice but if we are going to legislate hearing parents choices, are we doing the same to Deaf parents?

You fail to consider that if that Deaf individual is not able to develop speech, they don't have the choice of using spoken English. They cannot make a choice to use something they do not have the ability to develop.

 

[jillio]

This is the direction we're going in with my daughter. ASL + written English. She just had her last speech therapy session last week. She's stuck in a TC classroom for another year, so will still be exposed to speech, but will not receive any services in that area. She will get individual ASL instruction instead.

I DARE anyone tell me I can't make that choice for my daughter because I'm hearing.

Absolutely you can make that choice! And it is the same choice I made many years ago for my own child despite the fact that I am hearing. Then, as now, the other hearing parents were very judgemental, predicting all sorts of doom and gloom and telling me how I was limiting my son. :roll: If it works out for you and your daughter as well as it has worked out for me and my son, you both will be very happy, well adjusted, and successful. Plus being bilingual and bicultural, which is a whole 'nother advantage in and of itself.

 

[jillio]

Forgive me, I've not read the entire thread. Am I to understand correctly that this means forcing a communication method on a child. "You MUST sign AND speak English! It's the LAW!"

If that's the case, then it needs to apply to ALL students. Why let the hearing kids get out of it?

Bingo!!

 

[jillio]

Exactly...I was talking about the educational setting.

Thanks, A.

Why is it that people continue to believe that using ASL as the language of instruction forces a kid not to use spoken language, but will turn right around and say that using spoken English as the language of instruction does not force them to not use ASL? Totally hypocritical. If using one language forces the other into disuse, it happens no matter which way the coin lands. So the argument about bi-bi classrooms forcing a child not to speak is completely moot...by their own logic.

 

[rockdrummer]

I guess deaf children dont have a say when it comes to having rights to equal access to language, communication and education like hearing children do.


Hearing children are very very lucky that they will never be placed in restrictive environments like many deaf children are in now.

I think that depends on many factors. Nowadays there are different approaches and from what I see, the educators are open to options. At least where we are that appears to be the case. At my sons last IEP we talked about high school and putting him in a least restrictive environment and the school is accomidating to that. They also understand that LRE is not something that is cut and dry. LRE for one child may not be the LRE for another. From a common sense standpoint I think the LRE depends on the level of hearing and how much use can be made from that level of hearing. For a profoundly deaf child the LRE would be visual langauge access where as someone that can make use of sounds with HA's or CI would not need as much access to visual langage. I think the school gets it and I am confident in what I have seen and heard from them. There are also many deaf adults that I have met that are products of this system that are doing quite well from my perception.

 

[rockdrummer]

I can say the same thing about written English. Some people don't get it. but I think they will use it.. like in sports and such. They will be very thankful that they know it. If one really can't learn it (like missing an arm or something like that), I think they can opt out from it.

In a predominatly English society (USA) you will really have a hard time navigating through life without some English. To not know the language of the majority would be somewhat isolating yourself IMHO.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

Nope, it's voice off all day. They aren't allowed to speak inside the school.

Aren't allowed to speak, or use ASL as the language of instruction and the primary form of communication between staff, teachers, and students?

What happens if someone speaks? Are they thown out of school, or given dentention?

Those two situations are very different things. Stating that someone is "not allowed to speak" is an exaggeration that gives parents who are trying to learn about options a message that is untrue.

There are signs everywhere that remind people of the "no talking" rule. they are chastized when they speak and told to sign. Students are allowed to speak on the playground but not inside the school.