How do you write from ASL to english grammer?

Yup! I do same thing with books and watch tv shows. One thing, I did not have time to read or watch then my grammer go down slowly but I chat with deafies as ASL that is problem. I need to remind myself to use the english grammer in signs and do the bettter on paper or post here. :)
 
Read A LOT!

More I read, the more I write and think 'gramatically-correct'.
 
Now I'm curious....

gnarlydorkette said:
I think if deaf people learn Spanish, since their grammar rules are very close to ASL, this may alleviate some stresses on their brain to learn a new language. Their learning of Spanish may convey them to accept new information regarding English's grammar rules et cetera, IMHO.
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Interesting. I studied Spanish for two and a half years, and have studied ASL for a while. (The ASL is much harder for me, as a hearing person, to get my head around... not to mention that I can listen to Spanish-language radio or watch Univision all day long whenever I want, but don't have a 24/7 source of grammatical ASL utterances to tap into. Also, I can divide and conquer by reading Spanish, but if I can't parse ASL in real time, I'm out of luck. "TRAIN GO SORRY...") What similarities do you see between Spanish grammar and ASL? Maybe I can put them to use.

(The instructor I most recently learned from would berate me for trying to draw parallels between ASL and any spoken language, but I've always been struck by the (seeming!) similarity between the wa topic marker in Japanese and ASL's topic-comment structure.)

Many hearing children don't learn the rules of English until they enter middle school.
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That I can't agree with, unless you qualify it as "don't formally learn the rules of English". Children learn the rules of whatever language they're exposed to, spoken or signed. When they break the rules, they're corrected--gently, we hope, by parents and teachers, or, sad to say, via ridicule by classmates or playmates.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that it's good for children to be exposed to languages while their brains are primed to learn them.
 
Monaila said:
Yeah, it's really problems. I hate my teacher in middle school because she was very mean and pushed me to force ASL. I had already ESL from the elementary school. However, Mrs.Cooper force ASL to me because I lost my english writing. I still writing with ASL, but be upset. My mind is mess up with mixing ASL and ESL both. That's why.

Christy
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i hate to bring this up when u mentioned "force ASL"
that is a subtle form of abuse by your teacher...
that's why you were having a difficult time with ASL.

if it was NOT for your "mean teacher", you would NOT
have much difficult time with ASL.

Some people were never be able to learn
either English or ASL ... This might also have
something to do with "Learning Disability"
 
Well, considering there are many hearies who have really bad grammar, you seem to be off to a good start. I agree, read as much as you can. Also, try using elementary school grammar work books. You can usually find them for a few dollars at most larger bookstores. Start off on the easiest level, and then work your way up. (Try not to skip ahead, even if you think you know it all, because it is good to review. Who knows? You might even learn something new, or improve on what you already know.)

Also, if you are confused or unsure on any of it, feel free to contact me. If want, I can also proof read any typed school work, provided I have the time between my school scedule.

Good luck!
:wave:
 
hanabithief said:
Well, considering there are many hearies who have really bad grammar, you seem to be off to a good start. I agree, read as much as you can. Also, try using elementary school grammar work books. You can usually find them for a few dollars at most larger bookstores. Start off on the easiest level, and then work your way up. (Try not to skip ahead, even if you think you know it all, because it is good to review. Who knows? You might even learn something new, or improve on what you already know.)

Also, if you are confused or unsure on any of it, feel free to contact me. If want, I can also proof read any typed school work, provided I have the time between my school scedule.

Good luck!
:wave:
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hanabithief,
that's quite SWEET and Thoughtfulness
of you making this generous offer
to Monaila.... :)
p.s. pls be sure not to steal her ideas
according to ur screenid (just kidding ya)
just wonder how did you ever create
that name "hanabithief" ...
 
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"If want, I can also proof read"

hmmm...more evidence that i need to spend more time paying attention in my english class, rather than signing with my friends.:gossip: (my english teacher is hearing and doesn't know any sign. i still think it is kind of funny that my friends and i can get away with signing during class. she's a really nice teacher, though. she's really patient and she'll repeat and always makes sure to write the important stuuf on the board so that i don't miss it.

yes... i'm out to steal all of monolias ideas......:twisted:bwahahah:twisted:....uh.....i have too many of my own to start out with, and too many ideas makes writing essays really difficult because you have to organize them well.:dizzy:

:topic: b.t.w.- actually, my s/n was made up from by a friend of mine. when i was going to school in japan, i became friends with another student, mainly on the basis that he knew some JSL and so did I. Shoji, some other friends, and I used to always sneak into the highschool's baseball field to light off fireworks, or in japanese, "hanabi". (we really weren't supposed to be doing this.) one time i though i saw a teacher or staff member running towards us, so i picked up the bag we kept the fireworks in and ran. (it turned out it was just shoji.) he kept joking that i had stolen it, when i really hadn't:pissed: so sometimes after that i would take the bag when he was looking and hide it as a joke. :laugh2:hence the name.
 
I write mixed grammer.
i just have never quite understood the RULES that are associated with the english language and yet my written english seems to be ok according to teachers, friends, family,
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That's b/c you guys approach English as a second language. Research has indicated clearly that deaf kids make the same grammertical, syntaxial errors as do native speakers of spoken languages. What I think would help dhh kids acheive fluency in English are English As a Second Language techniques. Most dhh kids will never be as fluent in English as a native speaker of it, but then again, many native English speakers cannot express themselves too well in English (just ask some of my English professors!!!)
but the point of my argument is that the amount of vocabulary you give a child, the more power they could think with vocabulary in varying language to understand and voice their thoughts and emotions without being opressed).
English is the difficult language in the world to understand
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gnarlydorkette, actually vocabulary isn't the most difficult part of learning a language. Syntax, grammer etc is. That's why in foriegn language classes, they make you do those grammar drills.
 
deafdyke said:
That's b/c you guys approach English as a second language. Research has indicated clearly that deaf kids make the same grammertical, syntaxial errors as do native speakers of spoken languages. What I think would help dhh kids acheive fluency in English are English As a Second Language techniques. Most dhh kids will never be as fluent in English as a native speaker of it, but then again, many native English speakers cannot express themselves too well in English (just ask some of my English professors!!!)

gnarlydorkette, actually vocabulary isn't the most difficult part of learning a language. Syntax, grammer etc is. That's why in foriegn language classes, they make you do those grammar drills.
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That's why I think that deaf children should be taught to use SEE instead of ASL when growing up. ASL would be nice during the first few years, but when it comes time to develop full sentences... SEE should be introduced. I was raised on SEE from age 5 to 18. After that, I had already learned proper grammar structure before switching to ASL.

At NTID, the average grade level for English is 3rd to 5th grade. Most of those kids were raised on ASL. I mean... STRONG ASL.
 
deafdyke said:
actually vocabulary isn't the most difficult part of learning a language. Syntax, grammer etc is. That's why in foriegn language classes, they make you do those grammar drills.
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This is a moot point. What's difficult for one person is easy for another. I'd say that learning vocabulary was certainly more time-consuming than learning grammar. I don't know how it is for sign languages, but for us non-deaf people the difficulty of the vocab varies depending on how closely the language you're learning is related to your mother tongue (obviously). Hence, while Chinese grammar is actually, so I'm told, not that hard, it's a difficult language for English-speakers to learn (even leaving the writing system aside), because the vocabulary bears little or no resemblance to that of English. They teach you grammar and syntax in language classes because without them you can't form coherent sentences. They are the basis of the language. Once you've got the grammar and syntax sorted, then you can build up your vocab. Otherwise you'll just end up with a heap of words (or, I presume, signs) that you don't know what to do with :)
 
Fly Free said:
i just have never quite understood the RULES that are associated with the english language :roll: and yet my written english seems to be ok according to teachers, friends, family, etc etc go figure LOL
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I bet if you asked an English teacher, he or she would say that a lot of hearing people have never quite understood the rules associated with the English langauge either. :)
 
There might be other factors that makes it hard for you to learn english.. dyslexia & learning disability, some other stuff thats really goin' on. A licensed counselor might help you find out and the best way for you to learn English.

how do you translate from german into english? it helps to see them as two different languages, and play by their rules.. doesnt help if you apply the same rules from another language to a different one.
 
Almost impossible

Christy, Asl is the hardest to translate completely. Do best as you can do. I am sure that you will find that you have to leave out some ASL in writing English.
When you say ESL, which are you saying English Sign Language or English Second Language? In writing, it depend who are you writing to? I would write English grammer to hearing people and asl writing to deaf. I know it is so hard. ASL is good for visually like DVD, video, etc.
Monaila said:
Hi everyone, In writing English, you will have to think like a hearing person.

I can't sleep from my bed, but it's about 2 hours. No matter, I ask you on question. How you write from ASL to English grammer?

I grew up to write ASL and ESL and it's both to me. By the way, I'm centered between ASL and ESL all my life. My English 101 and 102 class graded straight "C", but Literature English graded final "B". That's odd. I know my writing grammar is very struggle to me. How I read the book, write the journal, or things?

Thank you for advance advice,

Christy
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VamPyroX said:
It does also help if you try doing it in MS Word. MS Word has grammar-check in it so you can type a paper of any kind and let MS Word check your grammar for you. If it does fix some of your grammar, read why it's an error and learn from it. The more you do that, the fewer grammar errors you will develop. It also helps to have your work proofread by friends, while they explain your errors as well.
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Smart tip--and one I've tried out in writing Spanish and German. Trust me, it saved my tail many times when I got into higher-level Spanish where we were expected to write essays.

But please remember...and I found this out many point deductions later...the computer's grammar- and spellcheckers won't catch everything. Occasionally they'll even suggest something that is flat-out wrong. Having your friends and professors read and critique your writing is essential for weeding out what the computer won't catch. Plus, the computer can't give you stylistic feedback on things that are technically correct but not necessarily what a native speaker would say. That requires a human eye to catch.

The other thing I recommend for language proficiency is to read frequently in that language, and not just the newspaper (which is geared towards a middle-school level) or closed captions (which have awful typos and also don't point it out when a native speaker is using lousy grammar). That helps you to stay "current" in your language skills, because you do forget things over time. I'm STILL upset about forgetting my 2 years of German...

Relatedly, I agree with whoever said that schools are not formally teaching English grammar the way they should be. I was lucky that I got one good course in 4th grade (believe it or not!), but most of what I learned, I learned not in English class but in my Spanish and German classes.
 
I used ASL write and some of english but now not bad like a 50/50 that some missing of verb or noun or adjverb. I dont know when I will go back to school and learn english grammar to make improve my english grammar. I know no one is perfect to use english grammar. :) All I need to learn english grammar cuase of the job need english grammar in anyhow I guess :)
 
Yes, that one of commons into the deaf culture. I had been problem with grammars years ago...and still learning on both grammar and english what I could write to explain better.

Few of friends had to asking me to get on VP cuz they couldn't explain on instant message - email in english since they has been with ASL much than grammar/english.

Some people asked me "why you signed into esl-asl, not full time asl". I told them that is better to get my saying or explaining clearly than asl (might be misunderstand). Sometimes I didn't get what their asl say and email-im, too...then I had to ask them what they really say?

I am still encouraging my deaf daughter to learn : read more books to be well grammar/english student at "ASL" school.
 
Monaila said:
By the way, I'm centered between ASL and ESL all my life. My English 101 and 102 class graded straight "C", but Literature English graded final "B". That's odd.
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I think it's normal to be able to understand a language better than you can produce it. I can still read and understand Spanish, but I can't speak or write it very well. And I'm experiencing the same thing with ASL; I can understand a lot better then I can sign. Based on your grades, it look like you can read and understand English better than you can write it, so use that to your advantage. Read as much as you can, not just for enjoyment, but pay attention to the way English sentences are put together. Start with easy readers because they will have simpler sentence structures, then gradually work your way up.
 
i'm having the opposite problem...i'm a hearing person learning asl from a deaf friend at work...right now we are just focusing on learning specific words or phrases... When he signs to me or even when he instant messages me i see the difference in grammer, but i am having a difficult time adjusting to the difference in grammer of ASL and English grammer... Grammer was never my strong point when i was in school...
 
Yeah, it's really problems. I hate my teacher in middle school because she was very mean and pushed me to force ASL. I had already ESL from the elementary school. However, Mrs.Cooper force ASL to me because I lost my english writing. I still writing with ASL, but be upset. My mind is mess up with mixing ASL and ESL both. That's why.
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Very poor answer that u are making a good excuse to blame on ASL.. ASL is not the blamed for your poor english written because you dont read or write very often..

It will help you to read and write to practice all the time.. I grew up with SEE, PSE, Total communication and few others that confused me too much.. I worked so hard for 8 years in DeafNotes that I have practiced and edited my writing all the time.

I blamed some people who doesnt have any manners or respect deaf people s language in ASL that I never had in the classrooms. So tell me why cant i write very good written english in the past?? it s not coming from ASL..

I finally use ASL and helps me understand better than before.. Believe it or not! Thats when my english writing has been improved so much all along.

Other thing is ENGLISh is never the same because it changes all the time. Also it s very hard for most of us people to learn ENGLISH itself. NO one is perfect with English anyway. So dont worry Just do the best you can and practice as much as you can.. Thats depend on your motivation that u want to improve ur writing.

Also many schools failed for many deaf children because there is no ASL in the classroom in the past.. Whats more they made us to read their lip movement that relates to a big GIMMICK lip, we could not understand everything to learn by oral method only.. I find this is outrageous for people to force us to read their lips or hear with those devices that we do not capable to understand every comprehension words that they are saying.. I find this s a big joke from them who think oral method is the answer or Devices is the answer.. It has nothing to do with our brains.. Duhie people in a way.

Thanks! ;)
Sweetmind
 
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