Hearing person (cringes and hides) asking an honest and sensitive question

And if it does work? Is it still sick?

Do you have to ask the most difficult question? First my point was that it is sick to leave a child without language when a perfectly good one exists. That being said I would answer no.
I know a CI kid who was taught ASL and who was later mainstreamed with no interpreter and is doing great. That child can still sign but has no interest in doing so. I personally find that sad but it is the boys choice and he will develop as a hearing child even though I still consider him deaf. Most would call that a success story. Although I knew the boy before implantation and he has become somewhat sullen post implant. Doctors never mention these changes in behavior. I also know deaf brothers whose mom did it all. First deaf school, then implants, then a mainstream type program with a teacher of the deaf. These boys have become bicultural. Mom is now a sign language interpreter
and the boys can sign beautifully and speak well, but really no better than my son with his powerful hearing aids. I also know several children on their second implant (same ear) and they are the deafest kids I know. Thank goodness for sign because the CI is really not going to work for them. One is a pretty girl and her scars upset me because they were for nothing. I forgot to mention that the two brothers
did not have a behavior change. They are happy and bright.
My point is you really dont know what result you will get.
Recently I was given a statistic by an audiologist who
said that 75% of mainstreamed CI children will need to go/return to a school for the deaf. That is not what the hearing parents of deaf children are being sold at birth. As parents we opted to wait and see. Now deaf people mistake my child for hard of hearing. We were lucky, but we also know we did the right thing. It would not be easy to find a surgeon to implant our boy, he is not a candidate, but I bet
we could find someone who would. I am not anti implant.
We know many deaf people who love it. I just want people to make an informed decision. Once you meet these children, successful or not, it becomes very personal. If
you watch the CI turn on videos on youtube you will only see the children light up and the parents cry when the children hear mom for the first time. There are no videos
where the implantation fails and the child does not react .
Many of these families have no sign and don't intend to learn. I think that is a big mistake. Why, because ASL is
cool and it links a child to a group of like individuals. One last thing, Implantation ,you must know, destroys any residual hearing in that ear but it also creates a fistula where fluids of the inner ear mix when they are not supposed to. Now you know everything I know and everything you know so you know the most. I am sorry I wrote a book.
 
Do you have to ask the most difficult question? First my point was that it is sick to leave a child without language when a perfectly good one exists. That being said I would answer no.
I know a CI kid who was taught ASL and who was later mainstreamed with no interpreter and is doing great. That child can still sign but has no interest in doing so. I personally find that sad but it is the boys choice and he will develop as a hearing child even though I still consider him deaf. Most would call that a success story. Although I knew the boy before implantation and he has become somewhat sullen post implant. Doctors never mention these changes in behavior. I also know deaf brothers whose mom did it all. First deaf school, then implants, then a mainstream type program with a teacher of the deaf. These boys have become bicultural. Mom is now a sign language interpreter
and the boys can sign beautifully and speak well, but really no better than my son with his powerful hearing aids. I also know several children on their second implant (same ear) and they are the deafest kids I know. Thank goodness for sign because the CI is really not going to work for them. One is a pretty girl and her scars upset me because they were for nothing. I forgot to mention that the two brothers
did not have a behavior change. They are happy and bright.
My point is you really dont know what result you will get.
Recently I was given a statistic by an audiologist who
said that 75% of mainstreamed CI children will need to go/return to a school for the deaf.
That is not what the hearing parents of deaf children are being sold at birth. As parents we opted to wait and see. Now deaf people mistake my child for hard of hearing. We were lucky, but we also know we did the right thing. It would not be easy to find a surgeon to implant our boy, he is not a candidate, but I bet
we could find someone who would. I am not anti implant.
We know many deaf people who love it. I just want people to make an informed decision. Once you meet these children, successful or not, it becomes very personal. If
you watch the CI turn on videos on youtube you will only see the children light up and the parents cry when the children hear mom for the first time. There are no videos
where the implantation fails and the child does not react .
Many of these families have no sign and don't intend to learn. I think that is a big mistake. Why, because ASL is
cool and it links a child to a group of like individuals. One last thing, Implantation ,you must know, destroys any residual hearing in that ear but it also creates a fistula where fluids of the inner ear mix when they are not supposed to. Now you know everything I know and everything you know so you know the most. I am sorry I wrote a book.

I have to disagree with this tidbit. The professionals I work with told me a VERY different story. They said 20 years ago about 90% of deaf kids would end up needing sign and only about 10% will be able to be educated orally. But now with the technology changes, the very opposite is true. Only about 10% "need" ASL and 90% can communicate orally well enough to be educated in a mainstream setting. These figures are also much more in-line with what I have observed in my life. Where I am from 90% of deaf kids are educated in the mainstream and our ASL school only receives a few "failures" every few years. (2 in the last 3 years). I have never met a child who end up worse off with an implant than they were with hearing aids, I do know some who have gained no benefit, but they had nothing with aids before, so they lost nothing.
Thought I would share too!
 
Do you have to ask the most difficult question? First my point was that it is sick to leave a child without language when a perfectly good one exists. That being said I would answer no.
I know a CI kid who was taught ASL and who was later mainstreamed with no interpreter and is doing great. That child can still sign but has no interest in doing so. I personally find that sad but it is the boys choice and he will develop as a hearing child even though I still consider him deaf. Most would call that a success story. Although I knew the boy before implantation and he has become somewhat sullen post implant. Doctors never mention these changes in behavior. I also know deaf brothers whose mom did it all. First deaf school, then implants, then a mainstream type program with a teacher of the deaf. These boys have become bicultural. Mom is now a sign language interpreter
and the boys can sign beautifully and speak well, but really no better than my son with his powerful hearing aids. I also know several children on their second implant (same ear) and they are the deafest kids I know. Thank goodness for sign because the CI is really not going to work for them. One is a pretty girl and her scars upset me because they were for nothing. I forgot to mention that the two brothers
did not have a behavior change. They are happy and bright.
My point is you really dont know what result you will get.
Recently I was given a statistic by an audiologist who
said that 75% of mainstreamed CI children will need to go/return to a school for the deaf. That is not what the hearing parents of deaf children are being sold at birth. As parents we opted to wait and see. Now deaf people mistake my child for hard of hearing. We were lucky, but we also know we did the right thing. It would not be easy to find a surgeon to implant our boy, he is not a candidate, but I bet
we could find someone who would. I am not anti implant.
We know many deaf people who love it. I just want people to make an informed decision. Once you meet these children, successful or not, it becomes very personal. If
you watch the CI turn on videos on youtube you will only see the children light up and the parents cry when the children hear mom for the first time. There are no videos
where the implantation fails and the child does not react .
Many of these families have no sign and don't intend to learn. I think that is a big mistake. Why, because ASL is
cool and it links a child to a group of like individuals. One last thing, Implantation ,you must know, destroys any residual hearing in that ear but it also creates a fistula where fluids of the inner ear mix when they are not supposed to. Now you know everything I know and everything you know so you know the most. I am sorry I wrote a book.


Thanks for the good answer to Faire_Jour. I agree with you that ASL is the answer to the communication problem not CI. I am thinking in the term of a deaf person too poor to afford CI. Once I was denied health insurance because they were afraid that I would apply for CI and drop the health insurance once I got it. That really made me mad because CI movement had caused me problems already.

The deaf people have told the public that ASL is the answer but we always were ignored by the pro-oralists for over a hundred years.

Please don't give up on the Deaf community. If you read some of Shel90's posts, you will learn when Shel90 first learned sign language (I believe after high school), she wasn't accepted by the Deaf Community at first. Now she is part of Deaf Community big time. Peteydid, Please don't give up.
 
And that has nothing to do with being not "deaf" enough. There are tons of Deaf people who are hoh or who use a CI or who have oral skills.
Most of the ones who are shunned are shunned b/c they have an attitude that they're better then Deaf people (b/c they can hear and talk or b/c they think they're better educated then Deaf people)


That's a bullshit cop-out answer if I've ever seen one. Its all stereotype/generalization mostly. If a new kid just so happens to appear with no "deaf background/heritage" I cannot tell you how many times he's shunned automatically just because despite the fact he could harbor no ill-will against deaf people, Its almost like you must prove yourself to become socialably acceptable. Gallaudet university is NOTORIOUS for this. Its fucking retarded behavior at the highest levels.
 
Oh, well. A lot of people seem to try to ask a controversial question and never return. :dunno:
 
I haven't been on AD for long but it seems like a lot of hit and run people are ASL students and come here to ask for help. I don't have a problem with them asking for help but it seems like they shy away from real interaction with deaf people. So they ask questions they need for a paper and whatnot. Some are even interpreters wanna-be's..... isn't it bad when they shy away from the very group that they work for?
 
Usually that's what happens for most of the bigger online forums..

If you care to read my thoughts of the logic behind it all:

A new dude/dudette appears from a search engine on something or stumbled on a link, then when they arrive and stand in front of the alldeaf directory it splits into the type of person they are before they post.

A true lurker doesn't post but reads as much as they need to know: Sometimes they'll register and never make a post, just to be able to search the forums to bypass the headache of the captcha image.

A curious one looks around a little, has a really interesting question or wants to know more about the forum/basis of it and their questions provoke or gather a lot of interest of the mainstreamed forumers. A lot of this "Breed" disappear after asking something.

A "gossipy one" or I dunno how to give a terminology for it; is what I consider registers, reads stuff and posts a ton within the hour they have registered.

There are also subdivisions of the three above to me, and the individual are then varied by type (examples like troller/flamer, lurker variations, stuff like that just like in society having KKK members, NRA group, etc)

The dedication of these individuals is then another story. But honestly I think from my own opinion the ratio of those who "post and run" versus the ratio of those who make their new+introductory post is higher as if something is influencing people to go.

The following is just a wild shot hypothesis:
I would suppose the average hearing person has less attention span versus a deaf person. On the forum we expect timely replies much due to the fact that we recognize that this is a form of communication that is in our favor. The average hearing probably does not care much for "keeping in contact", as they have their means and reasons not to do so.
Thus we are more prone to recognize "post and run" than they care to give two cents about it.

Other random stats if you care to enjoy my math as I did:
25,150 total members.

Guesswork:
~30 unique active members posting per day: random figure.
~100 unique posting members per week: a little high, but being optimistic.
~400 unique members posting per month (this includes the two above)
~500 unique visitors per day. (Based on Last 24 Hours data, includes guests, bots, clones, banned, etc)
~1000 uniques per week: random figure)
~1500 registrants (including spam, clones, everything) every six months = 250 per month.

Following numbers a bit off, but probably not too far from the real one:
• 60-70 "Hi" threads from the month of march '09: mean = 65
• 184-200 "Hi" threads from month of jan '09 to end of march'09: mean = 192 • 64/month
= averaging this out per month from above two data: 64.5 average new posters per month.

Guesswork statistics for jan09-mar09:
• 00.4% of all registered members post frequently/weekly.
• 00.2% of all registered members post daily.
• 01.6% of all registered members post monthly.

• 06.0% of daily visitors post. (~94% are doing other stuff, but a good chunk of this is crawling bots, like I'd say anywhere from 40-60%)
• 10.0% of weekly visitors post.
• Not sure of monthly data, but I would randomly guess this is around ~15% of monthly visitors post.

• +06.0% to population every half year, safe to guess around ~ +1.0% /year at this rate.

• 25% of all new registrants make one post.
I assume 3 out of 4 people disappear after posting:
• 6.5% of all new registrants participate after making their first post.

I don't have data from '08 and years before, never bothered doing simple statistics but it would be nice to compare it now.
 
no choice

And if it does work? Is it still sick?

The parent just took away the child's choice. If it were me and my mom did that to me, I would resent her for never letting me make my own choice when I was old enough. Talk about a lack of respect.

Deaf children are human, not broken toys.
 
acceptance

I haven't been on AD for long but it seems like a lot of hit and run people are ASL students and come here to ask for help. I don't have a problem with them asking for help but it seems like they shy away from real interaction with deaf people. So they ask questions they need for a paper and whatnot. Some are even interpreters wanna-be's..... isn't it bad when they shy away from the very group that they work for?

It's hard to feel motivated sometimes when I only got rejected by those I wanted to be friends with, and I was trying to communicate, but they'd rather be with their Deaf friends and ignore me because I sign slow. That's frustrating as a hearing person trying to learn. I have given up on being a terp because I don't think I'll ever be good enough to satisfy someone else. I work as an Admin Assistant. I speak English and Spanish and I can sign still but I'm a little rusty.

Everyone, deaf, HOH, Deaf, CI, ect all have feelings and we're all human and no one's perfect. I just wish we could all get along.
 
frustrating isn't it?

That's a bullshit cop-out answer if I've ever seen one. Its all stereotype/generalization mostly. If a new kid just so happens to appear with no "deaf background/heritage" I cannot tell you how many times he's shunned automatically just because despite the fact he could harbor no ill-will against deaf people, Its almost like you must prove yourself to become socialably acceptable. Gallaudet university is NOTORIOUS for this. Its fucking retarded behavior at the highest levels.


It's like an experience I just had... I went to a Mexican restaurant and I tried to ORDER IN SPANISH but the waiter refused to speak to me in Spanish! He spoke English to me... um, yeah, I'm a gringa, but that was still rude... It was just the one waiter, though. The other one when I went the first time was really nice.

When I get calls at work, people ask me if I can speak Spanish and they expect me to know it. Funny, huh? Interesting reversal... :hmm:

My company is Japanese owned and we have many cultures working here.
 
I am a hearing signer and no one really wants to talk to me. I am required to use signed English or Deaf people tell me "not to try and be ASL" I am not a Sign language groupie, I only want to talk to my deaf son and some of his friends deaf parents. People ask my coda wife "are you deaf? and I think of the Japanese who don't like westerners who can speak perfect unaccented Japanese. They think its creepy. Or French people saying Engle! when people are speaking bad French. All that being said I would really like to learn more Deaf syntax. I mean if you are going to do something why not do it right. Maybe I will start an ASL program at the community college but I still think no one will want to talk to me.

I can understand how you feel.

The only way is to shut your mouth and act like you are deaf. Approach deaf group and say "Hey, you deaf?" and " where you from?". It's a way to approach them for conversation. Sometime you would just try "white lie" saying I'm hard of hearing and I am trying to learn ASL. or My parent won't let me learn ASL until I graduated from HighSchool. ect..

It's never too late to learn ASL.

In fact... I was oral for 10 years and when I entered 6th grade in different Elementary school, I started to learn sign language, at first, I resent it after 2 weeks but eventually learn it because my friends in classroom are signing and I want to understand what they say. It was SEE and Pidgin sign. After I graduated from High School, I went to bar and met with group of Deaf from Kansas State School for Deaf (all graduated) and one girl signed ASL and it just blew past me. I told her Whoa!! slow down slow down! I told her that I haven't learn ASL. She understood and she switched to Pidgin sign. Eventually, I learned ASL from group of Deafie through party, Junior College ect. I picked up ASL in 1 year and began to use ASL as main language. I became popular among deaf group what I did very funny things.

Like for example: I invited group of deafie over my parent's home and in my basement bedroom, I had Tabby cat that I told them to watch my cat. I pulled out coffee can 1/2 full of catnip. My cat sniffed the can and stuck its head into the can and she clawed both of my hands like it won't let my hand go (I was holding the can).. It snort and sneeze few times and went crazy. Everyone fell on floor laughing so hard :rofl2: and said Cat sniffing like a cocaine!!. Then afterward, group of deafie spread words to all deaf community and I was well known for the cat. Regardless, at that time, I was still learning ASL but they are very happy to work with me. Today, some deafie still remember my cat so well even it was 25 years ago.

I did many more what they can't forget funniest thing I did.

Deaf people love humors and funny things. They tend to attract those who are funny. It's not that they're immature, It's the way humor cheers them up. Some story you might have was very funny.

For example. My deaf co worker ( He was oral all his life till he graduated and learned ASL in college). He told me story about car. It was more than enough to hurt my tummy from laughing so hard.

One night, he drove his father's car to bar in KCMO near where KC Chief Staduim.. He went to bar and met with some Professional football players and had good time. He was so drunk and it was late at night. Bars was closed so he got out and tried to start the car. Car won't start.. He and his friend open up hood and trying to figure out what's wrong. He didn't remember what he did and everything was blank. Then in the next morning, he woke up under the car feeling wet on pavement (seriously) and the first thing he saw was axle and gas tank. It was chilly, rainy morning tho. He got :confused: why he was under the car!!?? He crawled out under the car and look around to be sure there's no cop nearby. He saw the hood was opened and checked. He found out that the air filter cover, carburetor was missing. He had NO choice but to call his dad. 30 min later, his dad showed up and saw what happened to his car and was sooo :pissed: He rode with his dad and 1 block away, he and his dad found carburetor at the street corner and air filter and its cover was across the street. His dad asked him what did he do!! he :shrug: So they gathered the parts and bolted it back on the car and finally car started and ran. It was the most harlious and embarrassing moment of his life. I was laughing soo hard and can't breathe while at work. I still can't forget his story and it made me laugh. :rofl2:

So that's for example if you want deafie to socialize you. It may worth a try.

Catty
 
I can understand how you feel.

The only way is to shut your mouth and act like you are deaf. Approach deaf group and say "Hey, you deaf?" and " where you from?". It's a way to approach them for conversation. Sometime you would just try "white lie" saying I'm hard of hearing and I am trying to learn ASL. or My parent won't let me learn ASL until I graduated from HighSchool. ect..

It's never too late to learn ASL.

In fact... I was oral for 10 years and when I entered 6th grade in different Elementary school, I started to learn sign language, at first, I resent it after 2 weeks but eventually learn it because my friends in classroom are signing and I want to understand what they say. It was SEE and Pidgin sign. After I graduated from High School, I went to bar and met with group of Deaf from Kansas State School for Deaf (all graduated) and one girl signed ASL and it just blew past me. I told her Whoa!! slow down slow down! I told her that I haven't learn ASL. She understood and she switched to Pidgin sign. Eventually, I learned ASL from group of Deafie through party, Junior College ect. I picked up ASL in 1 year and began to use ASL as main language. I became popular among deaf group what I did very funny things.

Like for example: I invited group of deafie over my parent's home and in my basement bedroom, I had Tabby cat that I told them to watch my cat. I pulled out coffee can 1/2 full of catnip. My cat sniffed the can and stuck its head into the can and she clawed both of my hands like it won't let my hand go (I was holding the can).. It snort and sneeze few times and went crazy. Everyone fell on floor laughing so hard :rofl2: and said Cat sniffing like a cocaine!!. Then afterward, group of deafie spread words to all deaf community and I was well known for the cat. Regardless, at that time, I was still learning ASL but they are very happy to work with me. Today, some deafie still remember my cat so well even it was 25 years ago.

I did many more what they can't forget funniest thing I did.

Deaf people love humors and funny things. They tend to attract those who are funny. It's not that they're immature, It's the way humor cheers them up. Some story you might have was very funny.

For example. My deaf co worker ( He was oral all his life till he graduated and learned ASL in college). He told me story about car. It was more than enough to hurt my tummy from laughing so hard.

One night, he drove his father's car to bar in KCMO near where KC Chief Staduim.. He went to bar and met with some Professional football players and had good time. He was so drunk and it was late at night. Bars was closed so he got out and tried to start the car. Car won't start.. He and his friend open up hood and trying to figure out what's wrong. He didn't remember what he did and everything was blank. Then in the next morning, he woke up under the car feeling wet on pavement (seriously) and the first thing he saw was axle and gas tank. It was chilly, rainy morning tho. He got :confused: why he was under the car!!?? He crawled out under the car and look around to be sure there's no cop nearby. He saw the hood was opened and checked. He found out that the air filter cover, carburetor was missing. He had NO choice but to call his dad. 30 min later, his dad showed up and saw what happened to his car and was sooo :pissed: He rode with his dad and 1 block away, he and his dad found carburetor at the street corner and air filter and its cover was across the street. His dad asked him what did he do!! he :shrug: So they gathered the parts and bolted it back on the car and finally car started and ran. It was the most harlious and embarrassing moment of his life. I was laughing soo hard and can't breathe while at work. I still can't forget his story and it made me laugh. :rofl2:

So that's for example if you want deafie to socialize you. It may worth a try.

Catty


This is one of the Deaf Culture where the Deafies displayed their funny stories or just being a comedian who really crack us up. They do a lot of mime and sign the action. We feel better laughing even if they are signing about hearing people relating to Deaf people or HOH because many hearing people misundestood us a lot. This is a good joke about the guy who was drunk and did not remember where and what he had done. Blackouts are one of the worse moments that could happen to a guy or gal. Thank you for sharing with us. :thumb:
 
Can you explain exactly what the "deaf curse" was?

Brainwashing me to do the stuff they wanted me to do - like hate the hearing community and such.

Ugh I can't imagine how my life would be if I was still under the deaf curse via attending Gally or RIT. I prolly wouldn't have had many hearie friends.

*shudders* No thanks.
 
Hearing people don't have shorter attention spans, this just isn't their prefered mode of communication. Also, if you don't know anyone here you probably wont be back too often to check on your posts. It's like having a facebook page without any friends, why even log on?
 
Hearing people don't have shorter attention spans, this just isn't their prefered mode of communication. Also, if you don't know anyone here you probably wont be back too often to check on your posts. It's like having a facebook page without any friends, why even log on?

Non-sequiter? :confused:
 
I did not say all have short attention span, I said the average. Everyone of different background has different attention spans, but use your common sense for a moment.
Wouldn't someone who is partially/deaf, use more attention span than a hearing person?
The answer should be obvious, unless they have other mental factors unaccounted for.

Yeah, I see what you're saying about Facebook, it makes sense. But one thing doesn't compute. Why did they register in the first place? Do you really want to use it or are you just poking around?

Don't take it offensive if you come back to read this. If that was your only post though.. See you next time.

Non-sequiter? :confused:
Being a technical person, I prefer "does not compute" over non-sequitur. ;)
 
Being a technical person, I prefer "does not compute" over non-sequitur. ;)


Fine. Being somewhat eccentric, I prefer to be addressed from now on as "Spock".

Logic above all.

10hu876.jpg
 
Fine. Being somewhat eccentric, I prefer to be addressed from now on as "Spock".

It appears that our appealing visitor has departed or is perhaps taking a break.

Beam me up Botti! (Or Spocky? both rhyme)

PS. Congratulations on breaking 10k.
 
Back
Top